Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[TomasC]

Just tuned in. Sundby going very well, now 1:20 ahead of all the others after 13 kms.

 

[maltiv]

Incredible race by Duerr so far. He has gone more than a minute faster than everyone else

 

[TomasC]

Incredible race by Duerr so far. He has gone more than a minute faster than everyone else

Yeah and thanks to him they're on 1:09 now. Beautiful race.

 

[sworks]

Python: Welcome to the way of speaking to the media that was introduced by a certain norwegian.... Dont remember his name... Peter or something I Think it was....

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Jespersen and Northug have had a relaxed day so far. That may pay off significantly tomorrow, could be interesting to see. What's with Magnificat today?

 

[python]

thatnks, sworks. sundby is doing a great job and clearly benefiting from the group not willing to work together. obviously cherno and legkov could not match sundby's v2...if they could they'd shrink a few seconds.

the hills are simply not steep enough to force the race from the technical proficiency, where sundby is clearly superior, into the aerobic engines red lining. even there, the tired or under conditioned competitors may be no match for todays sundby.

 

[maltiv]

Impressive performance by Sundby...but what were everyone behind doing? Seemed like none of them wanted to race.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Quite a few of them seem just simply tired, particularly Legkov.

 

[ToreBear]

fermi, cherno would have a realistic chance to win overall ONLY if the tds ended right where the steep part of alp cermis begins. according to split analysis by woldofXC.com, cherno lost more that a minute to his pal last year in just those 3 kms. he is a fine climber, and actually much shorter and lighter than legkov, but he simply lacks the huge engine of his pal.

as to anyone having a chance to drop northug today, which i doubt will happen, though id be very entertained to watch, there is a proven formula. it was done by cologna just when the steepest part begun. it is only 3% and starts at km 4. one has to wind up pace to about 22km there and stay there for about 2-3 minutes. only manificat, legkov helner, cologna and perhaps bauer can do it of today's crop of huge engines.

Just to correct your memory. Northug had time to catch up on that day and had to open hard, also IIRC he had a bad ski day. So don't draw too strong conclusions from that day.

 

[ToreBear]

Great race!

I totally forgot about Harvey being there in my prediction.

Duerr was impressive, and he saved the pursuers from getting swallowed up by chase group 2.

Legkov was a bit disappointing. Perhaps his form is not that good yet.

 

[jsem94]

Sundby was so impressive. He's gonna take the overall now, barring an injury or sickness.

Jacobsen has been impressive too. She's probably going to end up in the Olympic Relay team.

 

[maltiv]

Sundby was so impressive. He's gonna take the overall now, barring an injury or sickness.

Most likely yes, but note that he looked completely exhausted after finishing today. The guys behind looked a lot less tired, which should be an advantage for them tomorrow. Since there are bonus seconds in the time trials (which is ridiculous), someone like Legkov can get back a lot time if he wins tomorrow (15 bonus secs) and finishes e.g. 20 seconds ahead of MJS.

Judging by todays performance however, it seems unlikely that Legkov can take 30 seconds on Sundby up Alpe Cermis, if any at all. Perhaps the only real threat is Duerr, who should get close if he manages not to lose time tomorrow.

 

[python]

Just to correct your memory. Northug had time to catch up on that day and had to open hard, also IIRC he had a bad ski day. So don't draw too strong conclusions from that day.

there is little to correct, it is on record - northug was dropped by cologna like a sack of useless potatos. we all saw it . what northug or his spinners say after the race no one is taking seriously anymore. bad skis happen except we never know because he usually just deflects. if he beats someone, it is because he is northug, if he loses it is because...of skis, some bug, anything but the simple fact he was beaten.

there 2 more flaws in your logic:

1. you said you liked my rating of tactical acuity...then northug was stupid to catch up too fast and thus paid the price. it is called racing and being beaten by your competition's next move.
2. northug sat on cologna for some time before he got shed. after the race he siad he had to let cologna go.

cologna was better that day - it is very simple. and northug was better then him on many other days. being a fan of a great skier should not be at the expense of facts.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Damn Oberhof is such a depressing place. Always the same ****ty weather.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Anybody watching biathlon right now? Oberhof mens sprint. Bjørndalen might take his first victory of the season !!

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Edit... Svendsen beat him.... ****ing hate him right now

 

[jsem94]

Lol. The old man still has some speed in him. Shocking with 3 penalties from Fourcade. He should have won it.

 

[Ferminal]

Russians were much stronger on the same stage last year IIRC, just not good enough today/Sundby too good. The others didn't really seem to give it everything, Harvey and Halfvarsson happy to race for the minor places.

 

[ToreBear]

there is little to correct, it is on record - northug was dropped by cologna like a sack of useless potatos. we all saw it . what northug or his spinners say after the race no one is taking seriously anymore. bad skis happen except we never know because he usually just deflects. if he beats someone, it is because he is northug, if he loses it is because...of skis, some bug, anything but the simple fact he was beaten.

there 2 more flaws in your logic:

1. you said you liked my rating of tactical acuity...then northug was stupid to catch up too fast and thus paid the price. it is called racing and being beaten by your competition's next move.
2. northug sat on cologna for some time before he got shed. after the race he siad he had to let cologna go.

cologna was better that day - it is very simple. and northug was better then him on many other days. being a fan of a great skier should not be at the expense of facts.

I just wanted to point out that your proven formula for dropping Northug is not a sure thing. No doubt Cologna was better in that tour, but in that stage, the way he dropped Northug is more about variables present on that stage on that day.

As for tactical acuity, he started 13 seconds behind Cologna, with Legkov coming in at 1:28. His best bet to win the overall tour was to catch up with Cologna and take it from there. He couldn't hang on and dropped back to the Legkov group. He still won the sprint and finished 2nd on the stage. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't remember what he said after the stage(probably nothing), but I saw when they were going downhill that he struggled to keep up with Legkov, Kershaw, Hellner and Manificat when they were in areas demanding skate 4, despite having the benefit of being last man in the group. This is one technique were he is(was at that time at least) much better than the others.

Hence I see the facts differently.

http://data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/results.html?sector=CC&competitorid=89637&raceid=19202

 

[ToreBear]

It's interesting that there was so much snow in Oberhof for the Biathlon, and so little for the XC.

Vegard Ulvang (FIS XC comitee), said that it was the German skiing Federation who wanted to have the race in Oberhof. But back in June it was decided that next season it will be held in Oberstdorf. When they plan for the year after that this summer I hope they remember the constant snow troubles in Oberhof and how the Biathlon coming just days later did not have those problems.




Ps. I was hoping for a Bjørndalen win. I'm disappointed, but I don't hate Svendsen.

 

[roundabout]

Are there really constant snow troubles? It may not have always looked pretty, but this year I think was the first when the program had to be changed?

 

[Bavarianrider]

It's because Germans don't understand individuals starts.
That's why they decided not to prepare a slope for the XC mass start races but for the the biathlon sprints

 

[ToreBear]

Are there really constant snow troubles? It may not have always looked pretty, but this year I think was the first when the program had to be changed?

Perhaps I'm being a bit of a drama queen(king).

I think last year it was similar, but my memory is sketchy on this. The race didn't have to be changed, but I think there were problems.

It's because Germans don't understand individuals starts.
That's why they decided not to prepare a slope for the XC mass start races but for the the biathlon sprints

Actually it was a pursuit race that got canceled.

 

[sworks]

Oberstdorf next year.
http://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/norske-legendaren-det-ar-en-katastrof/

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's interesting that there was so much snow in Oberhof for the Biathlon, and so little for the XC.

Vegard Ulvang (FIS XC comitee), said that it was the German skiing Federation who wanted to have the race in Oberhof. But back in June it was decided that next season it will be held in Oberstdorf. When they plan for the year after that this summer I hope they remember the constant snow troubles in Oberhof and how the Biathlon coming just days later did not have those problems.

Ps. I was hoping for a Bjørndalen win. I'm disappointed, but I don't hate Svendsen.

Are there really constant snow troubles? It may not have always looked pretty, but this year I think was the first when the program had to be changed?

It's because Germans don't understand individuals starts.
That's why they decided not to prepare a slope for the XC mass start races but for the the biathlon sprints

The snow in Oberhof issue has been brought up a few times. With regards to the keeping of snow for biathlon and the Tour de Ski not getting it, there are two factors to remember here.

1) A lot of the surplus snow used for the biathlon came from Gelsenkirchen, used at the Veltins-Arena events. Those were coterminous with the TdS in Oberhof so they couldn't use it. Now, there was some snow that was kept in reserve in Thüringen, but not all of what you see in Oberhof this weekend will be snow kept away from the Tour de Ski deliberately.

2) The organisers at the DKB Arena prioritise ensuring the Biathlon World Cup goes off without a hitch over ensuring the Tour de Ski goes off without a hitch, and no matter what the Norwegians may think, rightly so. The arena is looking at renovation in the next few years, and funding this is a very important part of their considerations at present. The biathlon World Cup provides a much, much bigger source of revenue for them. The crowds are bigger, the audience share at home is bigger, and sponsors are willing to pay more as a result. Prioritising the biathlon is, in Oberhof, the only sensible thing to do. Now, the fact that this is not the first time snow in Oberhof has been an issue in recent years means that not only should its position in the Tour de Ski perhaps be challenged (and indeed it seems like it has been), but perhaps the ordering of the traditional block of post-Christmas biathlon events ought to be reconsidered. Logistically Oberhof-Ruhpolding-Antholz makes sense, but bearing in mind the altitude of Antholz (highest altitude regular venue for the World Cup, just above Pokljuka) maybe Antholz-Ruhpolding-Oberhof would be more sensible in future - however it would move Oberhof out of its ideal almost-holiday-season position for the crowds. For the sake of increasing transport distances and also the clash with the Four Hills taking place nearby, I don't see opening the triple-header at Ruhpolding as an option.

Also, because of the nature of biathlon, awful skiing weather, fog and strong winds actually add to the mystique of competition at Oberhof in that sport, whereas in XC, horrible snow conditions and poor visibility are a real detriment to the spectacle. The relays in 2011 and 2012, for example, were spectacular. The men's relay in 2011 had Christoph Stephan drop to last place in shooting 1, then hit 5/5 in perfect conditions in lane 20-something while the big guns shot like Lars Berger firing a paintball gun blindfolded at the top of the range. Evgeniy Ustyugov missed all 8 targets, and one of his colleagues (Tcherezov?) spent over 2 minutes just over his 3 spare rounds. Then a year later, Italy won seemingly out of nowhere by being just about the only team to avoid the penalty loop.