Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BullsFan22]

Its not like Norwegian, Swedish and British (the ones I can understand) coaches are bringing a lot more than that. In individual races the coaches can give feedback on the times and position, but on a day like today giving cheap optimistic screams is basically everything they can do.

How about saying, ‘wait for the last hill’ or ‘don’t worry about the group behind you,’ or ‘use your v2 a little more’ or ‘be a little more upright on this steeper section?’

 

[Mayomaniac]

How about saying, ‘wait for the last hill’ or ‘don’t worry about the group behind you,’ or ‘use your v2 a little more’ or ‘be a little more upright on this steeper section?’

With the american coaches it's always the same phrase, no matter what happens.

 

[BullsFan22]

With the american coaches it's always the same phrase, no matter what happens.

I know. The funniest moment was in Falun 2022, in the women’s sprint final

 

[dobrien]

Because the USST coaches are far from being experts, plus it’s the club coaches that are responsible for the success of the skiers. They are only there for moral support, waxing and logistics.

Isn't what you're saying true of most of the other teams as well though? Don't many of the best skiers train with their own clubs and have coaches not affiliated with the national teams? I'm asking genuinely here; I have to believe USST isn't the only team where head coaching roles are more managerial/logistics than actual ski coaching.

Regarding USST, keep an eye on Kristen Bourne, current coach of the US development (D-team). Former racer, excellent ski tech, coached at St. Scholastica in Minnesota then U23 team at Craftsbury Green project. Everything I've heard about her is super positive, she's well liked, very knowledgeable, not afraid to pay her dues in the trenches. I'd love to see her work her way up to a head coaching position; seems to have a lot of promise. Could she be more valuable as a club coach? Who knows, but her stock is rising and she is so far very much a "skiers coach". My .02 anyway.

 

[dobrien]

With the american coaches it's always the same phrase, no matter what happens.

So you're always around them, listening to everything they say, all the time?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

How about saying, ‘wait for the last hill’ or ‘don’t worry about the group behind you,’ or ‘use your v2 a little more’ or ‘be a little more upright on this steeper section?’

In theory good, but I think there Are many reasons why it’s not a lot of these things in mass start races and chasing start races.

For example, the coaching zones means all coaches are in the same place and therefore when a group of 10 skiers comes it’s coaches from 6 countries screaming at the same time, meaning it’s hard for the skiers to take in any useful information (also in individual start races without massive amounts of spectators there has been many situations where Norwegian skiers have said after the race that they didn’t manage to hear what the coach said). It would make a huge difference if they had radio like the cyclists have.

After Sundby won his WC title in Seefeld (individual start) there was a lot of clips of him going past Norwegian coaches afterwards where you could hear them screaming more or less only “come on YEEEEAH” and if I recall correctly one of the coaches (Monsen I think?) said something to the camera guy like “it doesn’t matter what we say, he can’t take it in anyway, so we have to be energetic and go crazy and that way show he’s fighting for something big”.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Isn't what you're saying true of most of the other teams as well though? Don't many of the best skiers train with their own clubs and have coaches not affiliated with the national teams? I'm asking genuinely here; I have to believe USST isn't the only team where head coaching roles are more managerial/logistics than actual ski coaching.

Norwegian team the national team coaches are mainly the coaches of the athlete and it’s not like everyone have a personal coach like Klæbo with the grandfather. But I think a lot of the athletes are partly their own coaches and it’s not like Nossum creates a detailed training plan for every athlete that they have to do. I think very few top Norwegian athletes have a strong connection to the local club. Most of them are representing their home town club and not necessarily a club where they are living. Skistad is an obvious outlier here, she’s training with her local club and does a lot of session with male juniors and youths.

With the Swedes I think there are more personal coaches and the national team is more logistical. Russia have a system with national training groups where there is one coach for each group being responsible for coaching their athletes. For the Italian I have the impression that Cramer really is the coach of all the athletes in the group.

 

[BullsFan22]

Isn't what you're saying true of most of the other teams as well though? Don't many of the best skiers train with their own clubs and have coaches not affiliated with the national teams? I'm asking genuinely here; I have to believe USST isn't the only team where head coaching roles are more managerial/logistics than actual ski coaching.

Regarding USST, keep an eye on Kristen Bourne, current coach of the US development (D-team). Former racer, excellent ski tech, coached at St. Scholastica in Minnesota then U23 team at Craftsbury Green project. Everything I've heard about her is super positive, she's well liked, very knowledgeable, not afraid to pay her dues in the trenches. I'd love to see her work her way up to a head coaching position; seems to have a lot of promise. Could she be more valuable as a club coach? Who knows, but her stock is rising and she is so far very much a "skiers coach". My .02 anyway.

There’s a lot of politics in the USST. Friends hiring friends. Not because of someone’s knowledge, experience and performance. Bourne has been around and traveled with various age groups internationally for the US and she’s only in her mid 30’s. I am sure she’s a pleasant person, most of the coaches are.

 

[dobrien]

In theory good, but I think there Are many reasons why it’s not a lot of these things in mass start races and chasing start races.

For example, the coaching zones means all coaches are in the same place and therefore when a group of 10 skiers comes it’s coaches from 6 countries screaming at the same time, meaning it’s hard for the skiers to take in any useful information (also in individual start races without massive amounts of spectators there has been many situations where Norwegian skiers have said after the race that they didn’t manage to hear what the coach said). It would make a huge difference if they had radio like the cyclists have.

After Sundby won his WC title in Seefeld (individual start) there was a lot of clips of him going past Norwegian coaches afterwards where you could hear them screaming more or less only “come on YEEEEAH” and if I recall correctly one of the coaches (Monsen I think?) said something to the camera guy like “it doesn’t matter what we say, he can’t take it in anyway, so we have to be energetic and go crazy and that way show he’s fighting for something big”.

The voice of reason. Might not get you very far in this instance but appreciated nonetheless.

 

[BullsFan22]

Norwegian team the national team coaches are mainly the coaches of the athlete and it’s not like everyone have a personal coach like Klæbo with the grandfather. But I think a lot of the athletes are partly their own coaches and it’s not like Nossum creates a detailed training plan for every athlete that they have to do. I think very few top Norwegian athletes have a strong connection to the local club. Most of them are representing their home town club and not necessarily a club where they are living. Skistad is an obvious outlier here, she’s training with her local club and does a lot of session with male juniors and youths.

With the Swedes I think there are more personal coaches and the national team is more logistical. Russia have a system with national training groups where there is one coach for each group being responsible for coaching their athletes. For the Italian I have the impression that Cramer really is the coach of all the athletes in the group.

And Cramer still coaches/helps the Russian group he used to coach, though obviously he can’t be there in person.

 

[dobrien]

There’s a lot of politics in the USST. Friends hiring friends. Not because of someone’s knowledge, experience and performance. Bourne has been around and traveled with various age groups internationally for the US and she’s only in her mid 30’s. I am sure she’s a pleasant person, most of the coaches are.

Unlike the other federations where there are no politics at all?

I've got a cousin whose daughter skis on the world cup, believe me, Ive heard about the politics.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

In Norway there are also a long history of politics in selections, all the way back to the incredible story of our King getting involved in the selections for the 1960 Olympic

For the 1960 Winter Olympics Brusveen originally was selected as a non-travelling substitute, but after an impressive test race a few days before the team’s departure for Squaw Valley, a sport journalist from the newspaper Aftenposten sent a message to Norway’s King Olav V, urging that Brusveen be selected to the Olympic team. The king’s answer was: “I would like to see Brusveen join the Squaw Valley squad”, and the Olympic committee included him on the team. He won the 15 km at Squaw Valley, thanks to his excellent finish, after a close battle with Sixten Jernberg.

Since then there has always been a lot of politics in selections, both between national team and not national team and between all round team and sprint team. And of course with athletes/coaches from Trondheim region vs athletes/coaches from Oslo region.

With Nossum this has been much better in my opinion, as he’s had one foot in the Trondheim region where he comes from and one foot in the Oslo region where he lives and he was coach in Lyn (the club of Kruger and Holund) before he started working with the national team.

 

[OJRvE]

Isn't what you're saying true of most of the other teams as well though? Don't many of the best skiers train with their own clubs and have coaches not affiliated with the national teams? I'm asking genuinely here; I have to believe USST isn't the only team where head coaching roles are more managerial/logistics than actual ski coaching.

[

With the Swedes I think there are more personal coaches and the national team is more logistical.

All of the women has their own coaches. Thomson who is the womens coach are sort of personal coach to Sundling and Ribom (togehter with Ingesson who works in the wax trailer now). The men does not usually have a personal coach but works with the national coaches. Then we have coaches employed at the Ski centra in Östersund, Falun and Umeå, they are there to help all the athletes who live there, among them national skier. For instance Johan Granath is employed to organize training in Falun and is the personal coach for Maja Dahlqvist. Ola Rawald is employed by the biathlon federation to lead the b-team in Östersund is also personal coach to Linn Svahn. Ebba Andersson employed her own father as personal coach, he used to work at Ski school in Sollefteå but I think nowdays he is solely dedicated to Ebba and her brother.

The bug Ski Clubs have some organzied training mainly animed at the skiers who live there, but almost all elite skiers live in Östersund or Falun. Piteå Elit which is the biggest Ski club has employed someone who is personal coach for some of their skiers.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Very strong first lap by Diggins, can she really keep this up?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Very strong first lap by Diggins, can she really keep this up?

Her pace is crazy, can she really keep this up all race long alone?

Nice to hear that Ogden donated his prize money to his local skiing club.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Laukli is actually almost as fast as Diggins, only lost 5 seconds on the first two laps and caught up with Claudel!

 

[Mayomaniac]

Diggins is great at gliding long on her skis and shifting weight inso every step, but looking ar her uphill v2 her upper body is just all over the place, one could almost call it windmilling.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That said, Toblach is pretty much the backyard of Diggins, the 2nd part of the course is perfect for her and she has always been at her best here.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I really didnt see it coming that Brennan should crack today

 

[BigCoward]

In this form Diggins might do an all time great final stage climb.
Not Johaug fast, but as good as anyone else?

 

[KZD]

Valnes surely did one of his best distance skating races but Amundsen is looking superb and only a real bad day or illness can't take the win away from him as Valnes can't climb.

Diggins in front as expected but skiers like Niskanen and Weng are still close enough to worry her.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Valnes surely did one of his best distance skating races but Amundsen is looking superb and only a real bad day or illness can't take the win away from him as Valnes can't climb.

Diggins in front as expected but skiers like Niskanen and Weng are still close enough to worry her.

If Diggins has a bad day on one pf the classic distance races she could be in trouble.

Karlsson actually paced herself really well, despite leading 90% of the time. One of the smartest performances that I've seen by her.
I wouldn't count her out of the fight for the gc, she seems to be getting better and better.

 

[OJRvE]

If Diggins has a bad day on one pf the classic distance races she could be in trouble.

Karlsson actually paced herself really well, despite leading 90% of the time. One of the smartest performances that I've seen by her.
I wouldn't count her out of the fight for the gc, she seems to be getting better and better.

Not good for Diggins with that organized chase. Many skiers in the chasing group who are capable of doing great things in Val di Fiemme. Weng especially but also Niskanen and Karlsson. Actually I don’t expect much will happen in Davos.

Happy to finally see something good from Karlsson. She went out hard but seemed like calm downed the second lap and kept the pace. Thing is she seem to be much better at pacing in longer events.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Not good for Diggins with that organized chase. Many skiers in the chasing group who are capable of doing great things in Val di Fiemme. Weng especially but also Niskanen and Karlsson. Actually I don’t expect much will happen in Davos.

Happy to finally see something good from Karlsson. She went out hard but seemed like calm downed the second lap and kept the pace. Thing is she seem to be much better at pacing in longer events.

Yeah, she actually has a history of pacing herself much better in long races, just remember that awesome Holmenkollen comeback (helped by Johaug not changins skis).
Impressen by Svahn, Ribom (who did a lot of work) and Sundling today. All 3 should be better in classic distance races.

Honestly, if Pellegrino keeps improving he might still get on the podium. Very few sprinters can climb like that guy (he's also a lot smaller than most).

 

[BullsFan22]

The Swedes will likely gain something in the sprint and then the likes of Niskanen, Karlsson, Hennig, Slind, Weng, Pärmäkoski and a couple other distance skiers will gain in the classic pursuit. Carl had another solid race, though I hoped she’ll be closer.