Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Still Norway 5/6 top ski times, 6/8 and Johan-Olav Botn fastest ski time on debut. Sadly for him he couldn't shoot quickly OR accurately because Oberhof gonna Oberhof.

German success continues with Doll, although interestingly, although he held off JTB comfortably skiing the same final loop, he lost time on that final 1400m which is mostly uphill to Strømsheim and even Lægreid who is typically known for not being able to raise his game in the final lap. I don't know therefore if it was a sweet spot in the startlist for ski times (Botn also went around the same time) or indicative of anything else.

Interestingly two German IBU Cup skiers missed their start at Val Martello yesterday after traces of fluor were detected on their skis during the pre-race checks, meaning they had to race back to get spares. They were just a tiny amount over the limit that is given as potential natural contamination and all of the team's other skis passed. The rules allow for an athlete to swap out skis once per season because of potential natural contamination from other trail users but if the limit is exceeded by the same athlete a second time, then they will be suspended on the 'fool me once' principle.

After the German start to the season and the extremely strong ski days they had in the cold at Östersund certainly this raises a few eyebrows (and certainly could suggest some playing in the grey areas, much like the Norwegians with their asthma meds or the TUE merry-go-round we are all familiar with in cycling), but it's interesting then that none of their skiers appear to be performing out of their ordinary (historic, not just this season) level either yesterday in Martell or today in Oberhof so far, and it continues to be the Norwegians that are abjectly dominating the ski charts, while for the Germans it has largely been their surprisingly high shooting percentages that sustain their run of results; Doll skiing 7th fastest is not out of line with what he has been doing for the best part of a decade now, while Kühn if anything is skiing slower than his historical norm but shooting far, far better.

At the moment, being an isolated case for two out of twelve athletes, neither of whom are at the core of the team's plans, neither appear to have had their performance particularly affected by the change of skis, and who were only a fraction above the allowable limit, means the contamination defence is not unfeasible. But definitely something to keep an eye on and you'd have to think the German technicians are going to come under some scrutiny in the coming weeks as a result.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The conditions were horrible so I don't know how much we can conclude after that race. It's interesting that Lægreid almost won despite starting fairly late though.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Benedikt Doll has the same last season/possible retirement syndrome as Erik Lesser two years ago where his mentality improves after stating that it‘s probably his last season.

 

[Mayomaniac]

In XC skiing 22 year old Chiocchetti won the FESA Cup sprint in Oberwiesenthal, his first win in the senior rank. The 2m tall, but slender, young Italian won the Qualifier and also the final, ahead of a returning Mocellini.

In the men's junior race Ghio finished 2nd behind Isai Näff.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

That's some JTB like performance from Braisaz-Bouchet, although again the conditions were far from great.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Apparently they'll only use the bs 2.5km lap x 6 tomorrow.

I suppose Fis won't change a thing until Klaebo gets beaten in the Val di Fiemme classic mass start...

 

[BullsFan22]

33 women on the the start list for tomorrow. 55 men. There could be less than 30 women and 50 men that finish the tour. In a non championship year. Not exactly a good thing.

 

[search]

Actually quite impressive by Karlsson beating Slind without grip wax. She even used classic skis because she was afraid of technique violations.

any idea if the Swedish men used a similar setup? They blamed the choice of "ruggade skidor" for their bad results, as far as I could find, but no idea what that exactly is.

 

[BigCoward]

That's some JTB like performance from Braisaz-Bouchet, although again the conditions were far from great.

She can probably shoot 16 tomorrow and still win in that form.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I'l say this, if Chanavat actually finishes the whole Tour after FIS bend the rules for him in Toblach I kinda respect him for it. He could have left after also winning the second sprint.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

any idea if the Swedish men used a similar setup? They blamed the choice of "ruggade skidor" for their bad results, as far as I could find, but no idea what that exactly is.

No the Swedish girls (minus Sundling) went on blank skis without any form for kick.
The “Ruggade skidor” = either those wax free Zero-skis or normal skis where the waxers manually are rubbing up the grip wax zone with sand paper. You don’t need kick wax then, because the new structure in the sole works as kick wax. It’s really cool stuff, but also high risk.

I read somewhere that Niskanen went with these type of skis, which obviously worked great in the women’s race, but when the men raced it had stopped snowing and the conditions were different. Meaning Poromaa, Burman & co had bad skis.

I'l say this, if Chanavat actually finishes the whole Tour after FIS bend the rules for him in Toblach I kinda respect him for it. He could have left after also winning the second sprint.

He’s leading the point competition clearly, and it’s good that it seems worth fighting for. It’s hard to see him getting more points, but it should be enough. I guess the bonus sprint tomorrow is too late for Chanavat and I think the bonus point on the last stage also is too high up in the climb for him to take points there.

Really a once in a life time opportunity for him to win, without Klæbo here.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

People would always get sick so (even close to) 100% to the finish would be very unrealistic anyway.

Latest is that Slind is sick and will not start today. Might be more Norwegians getting sick, as it was reported yesterday evening that the coach Monsen is sick.

 

[KZD]

I find curious how the Norwegians in cross-country skiing get sick so many times (Klæbo got sick at least once per season during the last three) but in biathlon they barely get sick.

I also find it curious how in biathlon the French have been able to get outstanding performances from one of their athletes during each of the last three seasons, Fillon Maillet in 2022, Simon in 2023 and now Braisaz in 2024.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I find curious how the Norwegians in cross-country skiing get sick so many times (Klæbo got sick at least once per season during the last three) but in biathlon they barely get sick.

I also find it curious how in biathlon the French have been able to get outstanding performances from one of their athletes during each of the last three seasons, Fillon Maillet in 2022, Simon in 2023 and now Braisaz in 2024.

Biathletes get sick all the time (some more than others, of course). It doesn't always keep them from competing, but it does affect their performances.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I think there are three different reasons as to why cross country skiers are likely to be more careful to compete sick compared to biathletes:

1) First of all is a biathlon race less hard on the body. Because you need to be able to have steady legs to shoot on, the biathletes have to ski slightly more controlled on all loops before the last loop and this combined with the "rest" they get shooting, the load on the central system is a bit smaller than racing a cross country race.

2) Second is that if you are slightly sick and you believe that your body is reduced and can not perform at 100% level, the physical part is only one of two parts that is important in a biathlon race. If you are 30-35 seconds slower in the skiing part of a 10 km biathlon race you can still get a better result with good shooting than you do sometimes in 100% form but with bad shooting. In cross country when you are physically limited that will hinder you from reaching a "normal" result.

3) In biathlon the overall world cup result seems to be valued higher (not only the win, but also for top 3, top 5, top 10 etc) and the point system have always been pushing the athletes to take part in every race. In cross country they changed to a similar point system before last season, so this huge benefit from participating in basically every race. Some norwegian athletes in XC have complained about this new system because they feel it encourages atheletes to race when sick because you get quite a lot of points even from a bad race.

--

Then there is also huge differences between different countries. Norwegian and Swedish athletes have in general a much lower limit for when they are dropping out. So with a light cold a Norwegian or Swedish athlete will likely drop out, while a German, French, Swiss or Italian athlete with the same symptoms likely will start like nothing have happened. From the Central European point of view the Scandinavians are "weak", from a Scandinavian point of view the Central Europeans are stupid taking unnecessary risk with their health competing sick.

(this is of course generalized, there are also Scandinavian athletes that take risk and compete sick, like Jakob Ingebrigtsen did during athletics WC in the summer)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The other thing on that latter point, I would say, is that in the XC the German, French, Swiss or Italian teams have less depth and so, say, a Hennig or a Chanavat competing at 80% might still be a better option than a healthy reserve athlete, or at least more proven or they might have goals they're competing toward, whereas the Norwegians and Swedes (and before the suspension also the Russians) have a glut of athletes that they can plug in to that spot so needn't risk a healthy athlete like that.

In the biathlon, Laura Dahlmeier used to get a lot of stick because she would withdraw as soon as she was not 100%, at least in seasons where she was not contesting the overall World Cup title, because this was somewhat unusual in biathlon. The other thing is that although there is considerable difference between the formats, they all consist of the same combination of freestyle skiing and shooting, so you don't tend to get people specialising in one discipline or format the way the XC circuit has sprint specialists, or people who are better in Classic like most of the Finns, or people who are only able to contest the endurance races.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The other thing on that latter point, I would say, is that in the XC the German, French, Swiss or Italian teams have less depth and so, say, a Hennig or a Chanavat competing at 80% might still be a better option than a healthy reserve athlete, or at least more proven or they might have goals they're competing toward, whereas the Norwegians and Swedes (and before the suspension also the Russians) have a glut of athletes that they can plug in to that spot so needn't risk a healthy athlete like that.

It's a valid point, but in my experience the "From the Central European point of view the Scandinavians are "weak", from a Scandinavian point of view the Central Europeans are stupid taking unnecessary risk with their health competing sick." is also the general point of views from individual athletes and not only the coaches/federations trying to always field the best possible team.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It looks to be tricky conditions today, so I expect big ski differences. I wouldnt be very confident about my skis if I was Diggins and Brennan, in my memory the Americans are among the ones that more often have troubles on conditions like this.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It looks to be tricky conditions today, so I expect big ski differences. I wouldnt be very confident about my skis if I was Diggins and Brennan, in my memory the Americans are among the ones that more often have troubles on conditions like this.

Finns also appear to be slipping, we do know from Pärmäkoski that they had real trouble figuring out the skis to go with. Niskanen however seems to be doing ok so far, but the others are tumbling back through the field.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Brennan looks very uncomfortable and the finns except Niskanen seems to struggle too. I have a feeling the gaps will get big on the last two laps.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Snowfall really hurting the spectacle here. It keeps threatening to break apart and then gets pushed back together again. This was the chance to see the race break apart and we're now looking like having a sprinter win the stage.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Very disappointing race. Only Karlsson keeping the pace and no separation. But over 50 minute race, so a lot of girls will feel this effort tomorrow.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Awful, brick-through-the-TV spectacle.

FIS are happy though because they got what they wanted.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The short lap in Val di Fiemme just sucks, it took a thermonuclear Klaebo to create legit gaps here in 2022.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The short lap in Val di Fiemme just sucks, it took a thermonuclear Klaebo to create legit gaps here in 2022.

TBH pretty much any course in Val di Fiemme without Chiesa or Pojer is a bit of a letdown. FIS love the Zorzi step climb because they can get a bit of spectacle visible from the stands, like the "Northug step" in Holmenkollen, but it's really not tough in and of itself, you need the other climbs to create something first.