Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

An intervalstart with start list where overall leader starts at last and one minute gap between every skier (maybe even put 2 minute for the last 10) could work well. Kind of a copy of the Giro stage to Monte Lussari.
However i don't think that is a realistic change.

I think with the Tour being around 7 race days (I had prefered a few more, but that seems unrealistic given how people seem to not prioritize the Tour in Championship seasons) it would be a realistic and balanced program with something like this:

1 classic sprint / 1 skate sprint
1 classic intervalstart 10-15 km / 1 skate intervalstart 10-15 km
1 classic masstart 20km+ / 1 skating masstart 20km+
Skating masstart up Alpe Cermis.

But I expect the chasing start to still be involved during the tours in the future.

I feel like the chasing start needs to only apply in certain circumstances. It needs to either be late enough in the race that the time gaps are big enough it isn't just the wave vs. the leader, or where the format is so alternate that it changes things significantly. When I suggested my ideal idea for what the Tour could have been (which was longer and unrealistic in current circumstances) my suggestion for pursuits were to have one on day 2 after a prologue hillclimb type individual start (my suggestion was the Burgstall climb at Oberstdorf), and a return of the old Toblach-Cortina pursuit, but that would need to be near the end of the race after much more separation. And I'd wanted something on a long flat Loppet-style mass start to add endurance, somewhat like the Storlien-Meråker race in the Scandinavia Tour or the Engadin mass start from a couple of seasons ago.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

When I suggested my ideal idea for what the Tour could have been (which was longer and unrealistic in current circumstances) my suggestion for pursuits were to have one on day 2 after a prologue hillclimb type individual start (my suggestion was the Burgstall climb at Oberstdorf), and a return of the old Toblach-Cortina pursuit, but that would need to be near the end of the race after much more separation. And I'd wanted something on a long flat Loppet-style mass start to add endurance, somewhat like the Storlien-Meråker race in the Scandinavia Tour or the Engadin mass start from a couple of seasons ago.

The old Cortina-Toblach variant was cool but with high risk of being very unfair. Luckily now heavy snowfall the years this was organized. From what I’ve read it’s very unlikely that we will see this course again because it took a lot of work to make it doable and secure with snow. But here local @Mayomaniac probably knows all the details.
The original women’s variant of this course was a joke starting at the highest point, but it was fun to see young Johaug struggle a lot on this extremely easy and fast course.

I hope the chasing start in Davos this years gives motivation to use some more interesting routes than just short laps around the Stadion in the future, not only for Tour organizers but for the entire World Cup scene.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The old Cortina-Toblach variant was cool but with high risk of being very unfair. Luckily now heavy snowfall the years this was organized. From what I’ve read it’s very unlikely that we will see this course again because it took a lot of work to make it doable and secure with snow. But here local @Mayomaniac probably knows all the details.
The original women’s variant of this course was a joke starting at the highest point, but it was fun to see young Johaug struggle a lot on this extremely easy and fast course.

I hope the chasing start in Davos this years gives motivation to use some more interesting routes than just short laps around the Stadion in the future, not only for Tour organizers but for the entire World Cup scene.

This, the big appeal is to see them actually ski out in the nature in a winter landscape, not just shorz laps. Of course lack of snow can prevent this.

This year the warm weather in december prevented the actual pursuit on Toblach to happen like planned. That would be an easy first 20kms, but then 1 lap on the Toblach circuit that we had this year in the end.

They are still not using the hardest lap in toblach, that one is over 6kms long and has 2 more climbs before the long false flat downhill.

I've always said that doing the Toblach circuit clockwise would be better, the long downhill false flat would become an uphill false flat before the climbs, who would be closer to the finish, but still with some flat afterwards. There's 1 corner that would need extra safety measures (the one where the steepest part of the climb follows that is now always the first one) but otherwise there's no difference.

Today the tracks were really slow because of the fresh snow, it was a grind.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I always felt like, if you really want to have them in the stadium more often for the fans, go for the long lap + a few short laps at the finish, like in bike racing, would be the best way to go. Make 20km out of two laps of a challenging 7,5km loop then two laps of a 2,5km loop rather than four laps of a middling 5km loop, for example. We know from skiathlons that separate loops with multiple route options are a possibility, why not utilise that elsewhere for variety?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Could be the most comical sprint in the World Cup since whenever Niklas Dyrhaug last attempted to "sprint" if we see Moch and Lapierre go to the line together here...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Valnes finishing 11th on the Alpe Cermis says a lot about the weakness of the field. Nothing against him, he's a really good classic skier and a great sprinter, but this stage is really not for him.
Moch and Lapalus on the podium and a win for Lapierre is nice. Momo finishing the Tour inside the stage top 10 is also fine in my book.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Valnes finishing 11th on the Alpe Cermis says a lot about the weakness of the field. Nothing against him, he's a really good classic skier and a great sprinter, but this stage is really not for him.

Valnes is a fighter and thats very important on this stage.

The field is always watered down by the end of the Tour. Valnes was 1:13 behind the winner. Last year 11th were 1:11 behind. The year before 11th were 0:58 behind. So Valnes 11th 1:13 behind is not that special actually.

I think it’s very good to see a big, heavy more sprinter type like Valnes doing this well. A lot of people thinks that the gaps on this stage is way too big and therefore it’s playing a too big role in the overall, but I am of the opinion that it’s not really that much differences in time gaps from this race compared to for example a 15 km interval start.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Valnes is a fighter and thats very important on this stage.

The field is always watered down by the end of the Tour. Valnes was 1:13 behind the winner. Last year 11th were 1:11 behind. The year before 11th were 0:58 behind. So Valnes 11th 1:13 behind is not that special actually.

I think it’s very good to see a big, heavy more sprinter type like Valnes doing this well. A lot of people thinks that the gaps on this stage is way too big and therefore it’s playing a too big role in the overall, but I am of the opinion that it’s not really that much differences in time gaps from this race compared to for example a 15 km interval start.

I mean, it used to be different with the pursuit, but now the gaps are usually contained.

Sucks that Pellegrino got sick, looking at last year he would have been among the strongest. He is a lot lighter than most sprinters.

I expected a bit more from Doennestad, tbh.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The German girls' skis in Oberhof are an absolute aberration. I mean they haven't shot well but you could just see Schneider practically have to walk up the hill with them getting stuck in the snow. Preuß has then shot two penalty loops at the end to fail to capitalise on the chance of 4th offered by Italy giving Carrara the final leg (with predictable consequences).

With Germany rendered irrelevant and Italy not including Doro, the three teams you'd expect to make up the podium make it up. Probably in the order you'd expect (although I'd forgive you for having put Norway ahead of France given they always seem to be able to make lemonade in relays and Chauveau's shooting can be questionable).

 

[BigCoward]

That final Italian shoot was an absolute abomination. She might as well have been throwing stones.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That final Italian shoot was an absolute abomination. She might as well have been throwing stones.

Carrara is like that, she has competitive pace to be a World Cup level talent and won the Junior Worlds in the sprint a few years ago, but she falls apart in head to head races and panics in the range a lot, which is why she's reached her mid-20s and is bouncing between the World Cup and IBU Cup while the team is focusing far more attention on younger prospects like Carpella, the Scattolo sisters and Paßler and why she's been passed out of her own age group by the likes of Comola. She's effectively a similar kind of athlete to Fede Sanfilippo but doesn't hit the top of her abilities as often.

Maybe with time and an extended run in the team she could figure it out, but the team has enough depth now not to need to keep her around long-term in hope rather than expectation with the amount of young talent they have coming through now.

 

[search]

Hauser didn't even get to start as Austria was lapped three runners into the race. Must be a new low as well (at least for the past couple of years).

 

[BigCoward]

I can't remember 3 mins between the podium and 4th ever?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Tbf, Italy with Vittozzi, Passler, Comola and Auchenthaller would be a solid team.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tbf, Italy with Vittozzi, Passler, Comola and Auchenthaller would be a solid team.

Sara Scattolo, mark my words.

Back to Val di Fiemme. Diggins bouncing her head around like she's at a disco pre-race as usual. There is a lot of good music from Minnesota. I doubt she listens to any of it and am not interested enough to find out, but if it turned out she was bopping around to a band like Cows or Hüsker Dü bouncing around her head, it would go at least a little way toward redeeming her in my eyes

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

A bit strange that Stadlober is pacing steady with quite a high pace. It doesn’t cost a lot, but it should cost her a little.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Laukli managed to start the climb in a topp 6 position. Didnt seem like she worked a lot for it either.

 

[dobrien]

Laukli right at the front where she needs to be

 

[BigCoward]

That was Riccoesq, the way Weng just moved up the outside.

 

[dobrien]

Laukli managed to start the climb in a topp 6 position. Didnt seem like she worked a lot for it either.

With so few skiers in the field it didn't look like too much trouble for her; she got up there early.

 

[dobrien]

That was Riccoesq, the way Weng just moved up the outside.

Riccoesque, never thought I'd hear that name today! ;-)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Weng, Karlsson, Laukli to the front immediately at the base. Diggins using Sophia as a guide to get into the right position which seems smart. She needn't follow her if she attacks (indeed I hope she doesn't), but she'll at least be in a good spot. Claudel coming through on the other side of the track.

The pace isn't really on yet, Sundling is still there.

Edit: Jess has plonked herself directly in front of Karlsson which is an even better place to be than I thought she would go for, which was directly behind her.

 

[dobrien]

Bergane in good position too; awesome!

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Pretty low pace here in the First part, completely different from the men’s race.
Still everyone there and they are on a broad front.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I was kind of excited for how well placed Laukli and Claudel were at the bottom as I thought it meant they would light it up from the base like they did last year, but they had to do that because they were badly positioned last time. Here goes Heidi with Laukli going with though, the fun begins.