NovitzkyÂ’s European vacation

[jimmypop]

Will there be a Lance "Urine Tasting " party at the lab ?

Possibly, though there's likely serious money to be made in diluting Armstrong's urine into a homeopathic remedy to cure all cancers.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So where will Jeff's European vacation take him?

We already know he has been 'leaning' on Popo in Italy..... and now it looks like he is going to get a yellow souvenir from the 99 Tour when he visits Paris.

 

[BotanyBay]

A visit to gay Paris!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/us-...-as-novitzky-heads-to-paris-to-meet-with-afld

 

[tubularglue]

 

[tubularglue]

Will there be a Lance "Urine Tasting " party at the lab ?

 

[flicker]

Has anyone tried any of the appelation 99 Armstrong Merlot, infused from the Girona/AustinEPO vineyards?

 

[dopingectomy]

This may be relevant to this thread:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/us-postal-investigation-steps-up-as-novitzky-heads-to-paris-to-meet-with-afld

Interpol headquarters are located in Lyon, France

 

[Ninety5rpm]

CBS story:

(CBS/AP) The questions surrounding Lance Armstrong's claim to never have used performance enhancing drugs only seem to get deeper with time. In the latest chapter of the did-he-or-didn't-he saga, U.S. investigators have gone to France to talk with the French agency that has stored some of Armstrong's urine samples, the Associated Press reports.

The agency plans to share everything it knows with the Americans during a scheduled meeting sometime this week, a French official said.

The official said the American delegation is comprised of U.S. Food and Drug Administration Agent Jeff Novitzky, famous for being at the center of the BALCO Investigation that outted Barry Bonds and Marion Jones as PED users. Others believed to be part of the investigation are U.S. federal prosecutor Doug Miller and U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart, the AP reports.

The investigation into doping in cycling heated up after Floyd Landis, famously stripped of his 2006 Tour de France win for doping, admitted this past spring to taking performance enhancing drugs. During his mea culpa, Landis fingered Armstrong and other teammates for what he described as "systemic" PED abuse.

The former head of the French agency, Pierre Bordry, previously promised to hand over Armstrong's samples from the 1999 Tour de France to Novitzky if the agent made an official request.

The French official said he doesn't know whether U.S. investigators have formally requested the samples.

The French sports daily L'Equipe reported in 2005 that Armstrong's samples from 1999 contained traces of the banned performance-enhancer EPO.

An investigator mandated by cycling's international governing body, the UCI, later cleared Armstrong. The seven-time Tour de France winner has repeatedly denied allegations that he took performance-enhancing drugs.

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/16/sportsline/main7059640.shtml

 

[flicker]

So where will Jeff's European vacation take him?

We already know he has been 'leaning' on Popo in Italy..... and now it looks like he is going to get a yellow souvenir from the 99 Tour when he visits Paris.

DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE NEW FILM BEING MADE STARRING ROBIN WILLIAMS AS FLOYD LANDIS, BEN STILLER AS LANCE ARMSTRONG AND JOHN MALCOVICH AS JEFF NOVITZKY.
The films name is "Bottle Shock."

 

[reigarc]

How much did the US spend to bring down the "criminal" Sadaam Hussein?

There was no "pre-suppostion" there?

now lance armstrong is in the same league as saddam hussein?

wow...

what's next? hitler moral equivalence?

 

[BotanyBay]

now lance armstrong is in the same league as saddam hussein?

wow...

what's next? hitler moral equivalence?

I think his point is, that Federal investigations are rarely curtailed due to reasons of cost. If they need to fly to France, they fly to France. This is why federal prosecutions are so greatly feared by defendants in the USA. No matter what kind of defense you create, you WILL be outspent by the government if you fight them. If you hire an expert witness, they'll hire 10 to refute him.

They rarely give up.

 

[Benotti69]

now lance armstrong is in the same league as saddam hussein?

wow...

what's next? hitler moral equivalence?

see post #36

 

[Oldman]

now lance armstrong is in the same league as saddam hussein?

wow...

what's next? hitler moral equivalence?

I posted this on another thread about what the USADA investigation is about. Think about it when you take your post ride Advil:

I've been flogging this horse for some time and we may now have a parallel case in Contador. Contador alledges that the Spanish beef industry could have sold him tainted beef or the packaging could have contributed to a test result or some other fairy tale ending that absolves him. You can be certain that the Spanish version of the USADA will take such suggestions extremely seriously; not because Alberto is a national icon but because the huge beef industry pays lots of taxes and expects regulation.
The US and International pharmaceutical industry is no small trade group. When their market is undercut by counterfeit drugs they run several risks: loss of revenue to black market sources and possible circulation of a tainted product that forces them to pull legitimate drugs from the shelves. While the black market in PED's to stupid American master riders may seem small the damage done by a death(s) attributed to a drug and a subsequent recall is huge. Much bigger than Lance, cycling, the NFL and MLB combined.
While the cost of such and investigation vs. the fish boated seems out of scale the USADA is expected to send a serious message: we will prosecute the biggest names to stop even little crimes in this arena.US citizens pay taxes to stop criminal activity.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I posted this on another thread about what the USADA investigation is about. Think about it when you take your post ride Advil:

I've been flogging this horse for some time and we may now have a parallel case in Contador. Contador alledges that the Spanish beef industry could have sold him tainted beef or the packaging could have contributed to a test result or some other fairy tale ending that absolves him. You can be certain that the Spanish version of the USADA will take such suggestions extremely seriously; not because Alberto is a national icon but because the huge beef industry pays lots of taxes and expects regulation.
The US and International pharmaceutical industry is no small trade group. When their market is undercut by counterfeit drugs they run several risks: loss of revenue to black market sources and possible circulation of a tainted product that forces them to pull legitimate drugs from the shelves. While the black market in PED's to stupid American master riders may seem small the damage done by a death(s) attributed to a drug and a subsequent recall is huge. Much bigger than Lance, cycling, the NFL and MLB combined.
While the cost of such and investigation vs. the fish boated seems out of scale the USADA is expected to send a serious message: we will prosecute the biggest names to stop even little crimes in this arena.US citizens pay taxes to stop criminal activity.

Good post.
Though I`d never give the Pharmacutical Industry any credit from any kind of ethical perspective when it comes to protecting there market there up there with the Oil Industy...though I aint heard of em wanting Wars they certainly dont hurt there botton line
From the off in this investigation it`s absalutly clear that Novetsky`s involvement meant concern about the chain of supply...from manufacture to end user of prohibited substances.
Can any of these substance be traced to recognised manufacturers/ labs?
I recall some research where manufactorers were looking into ways of putting "genetic finger prints" into there drugs for this pupose but dont know if thats just research ?

 

[BotanyBay]

From the off in this investigation it`s absalutly clear that Novetsky`s involvement meant concern about the chain of supply...from manufacture to end user of prohibited substances.
Can any of these substance be traced to recognised manufacturers/ labs?
I recall some research where manufactorers were looking into ways of putting "genetic finger prints" into there drugs for this pupose but dont know if thats just research ?

It has more to do with chain of "custody" than supply (not that supply couldn't be an issue too). The USA has laws regarding the chain of custody of controlled substances. The FDA is in charge of enforcing those laws. Novitzky is employed by the FDA to investigate and solve the weaknesses in that chain.

You can't currently put "genetic fingerprints" on these drugs because that would mean a "new compound" and that would require new (many years long) testing trials. Our current laws require that any new compound be tested. The manufacturers are not going to spend the money to re-work and test the formula (Billions of $) just to catch dopers. You also can't "spike the pill" with a marker, because (remember, this is medicine!) it might kill someone.

But from what I have read, they (manufacturers) seem to be cooperating with the testers on how to best catch dopers. They're helping them develop the detection tests.

 

[BotanyBay]

Can any of these substance be traced to recognised manufacturers/ labs?

I suppose that if you can find the drug molecule itself (before it has metabolized) you could identify the manufacturer. It metabolized very quickly. So few are making it, that's not the big problem anyway. We're not talking back-alley drug labs making the EPO. The athletes are using the same drugs as kidney and cancer patients. The problem is: How did these drugs get outside of the controlled chain of custody? Dirty docs? Dirty pharmacists? Dirty Pharma execs?

 

[Darryl Webster]

I suppose that if you can find the drug molecule itself (before it has metabolized) you could identify the manufacturer. It metabolized very quickly. So few are making it, that's not the big problem anyway. We're not talking back-alley drug labs making the EPO. The athletes are using the same drugs as kidney and cancer patients. The problem is: How did these drugs get outside of the controlled chain of custody? Dirty docs? Dirty pharmacists? Dirty Pharma execs?

Gotta agree, I`ve always held the suspition that Lance`s dice with cancer provided the oppertunity and the motive ( to a mind like his) to get in with peeps within Big Pharm. The question in my mind being how far up in Big Pharm did the chain of knowing go?...to the very top?.
Part of me doupts that another part says Big Pharm has its own version of " black ops" ( see "The Constant Gardner").
Were did the connection to cycling from Amgen come from?
Given EPO`s reputation as a PED cycling would apear a strange choice of sport to sponsor. Less of course your arrogance had reached a leval were you didnt see the conflict?.
One thing possitive spin from Big Pharms perspective is this:
Your ill, you see/ hear about athletes doing super human performances on EPO..one even returned from cancer to "win" the TDF 7 times.
No you might not approve of doping in sport but you aint gona forget quickly that EPO did that so what might it do for you?.
Both for custumer ( patient) and Administers ( dr`s) theres more awarnes of the drug. Bingo..a possible and plausable motive for Big Pharm to "help" athletes. Athletes geting caught doesnt hurt Big Pharm unless its proven there in on the supply.
Somehow I`ve found it very difficult to believe Lance would risk back street labs.

 

[BotanyBay]

Were did the connection to cycling from Amgen come from?
Given EPO`s reputation as a PED cycling would apear a strange choice of sport to sponsor. Less of course your arrogance had reached a leval were you didnt see the conflict?.

I can't remember their names, but oddly enough, SEVERAL current or former professional (or top amateur) cyclists have risen through the ranks at Amgen.

Not only do they sponsor a race, but a top masters team with perhaps the highest win-ratio of any current team worldwide (amateur or pro).

Amgen's interest in placing itself next to cycling is tough to figure out. It's not like one goes to their oncologist and requests their favorite brand of blood cell booster. My guess is that they're trying to make themselves visible to the docs who follow cycling.

 

[python]

what can novi bring back fom france ?

so, we have this novi trip becoming a reality but what exactly will he be doing there ?

we already discussed the 99 samples to death, what other evidence do the french have ?

off the top of my head i can think of just few more things

- showergate leftover samples including texas hair
- 2009 tour oclaesp investigation into medical waste
- other leads that were part of the target testing intelligence in 2010 tour
?????????
everything else will require the uci cooperation and we know it's not coming.

 

[BotanyBay]

so, we have this novi trip becoming a reality but what exactly will he be doing there ?

And once he does something there, what will you ask next?

 

[washedup]

Dreaming of multiple yellow jerseys being passed to Jan Ullrich (not that his should count, buy fun to think of).

 

[python]

And once he does something there, what will you ask next?

a remarkable piece of nonsensical waste in response to a concrete question.

i stand by my yesterday post calling out your trolling.

 

[webvan]

Dreaming of multiple yellow jerseys being passed to Jan Ullrich (not that his should count, buy fun to think of).

+1

Problem is he got fed up of being trounced by the doped uniballer after 2004 and decided to get some "help", which led to his demise. Oh, the injustice of being beaten by a fraud and then getting caught red-handed, or almost, because your dumb mentor used his personal phone instead of a prepaid phone.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I can't remember their names, but oddly enough, SEVERAL current or former professional (or top amateur) cyclists have risen through the ranks at Amgen.

. My guess is that they're trying to make themselves visible to the docs who follow cycling.

The first bits no suprise eh!

And I`d have to agree..cycling does seem to be a sport for fitness an awfull lot of doctors take part in.
Obvious not as a whole of cycling participents but as a % of doctors.

Straying as an aside...any one aware of any large betting wins going to anyone of interest during the Wondekids`s reign?...peeps with inside knowledge do like a flutter!

 

[BotanyBay]

a remarkable piece of nonsensical waste in response to a concrete question.

i stand by my yesterday post calling out your trolling.

I'm sorry, forgive me, but what do you THINK he'll be doing there? Each step of the way, you ask for the purpose or what he expects to find. Yesterday you pondered why an FDA investigator is conducting such an investigation. Each time someone explains it fully, you just come up with a few more questions. How about you first acknowledge some understanding about the purpose of the investigation and then we'll talk about AFLD, ok?

I'm no troll, but I can smell the bait in your pocket.