Official Alberto Contador hearing thread

[cycladianpirate]

I hope the conclusion given by CAS, is the end of the case. Then we could all just move onward.

Amen to that, but I'm afraid that this is likely to be only the beginning - look out for appeal after appeal with applications for stays of judgment in the interim (i.e. a ban being put 'on hold' while the lawyers milk this for all it's worth - it's by no means out of the question that AC will ride the Tour with the case still sub judice).

Bertie may take this one all the way to Strasbourg if he doesn't get the 'right' result.

On that note, does anyone here know if legal costs are recoverable in CAS cases?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I agree with these thoughts completely. I look in once in a while, nowadays. But after reading a few posts, in most of the threads, I have no desire to take part. The opinions in this case, in particular, have brought out some of the worst, most illogical arguments, I've heard. And so much of the opinionating is driven by fan biases, no matter how bizarre some of these opinions have been. I hope the conclusion given by CAS, is the end of the case. Then we could all just move onward.

Excellent post - so for my part may I state my apologies to you and the rest of the Forum.

Not visiting (or engaging) in the Forum is the exact opposite of what I would wish here.
I am a 3 legged mule, I have never stated an expertise in any area, because I have none. That is why I wish to learn from more posters, share the information - which is why when possible I link stuff. Let the reader decide if they have the same conclusions, argue an alternative, or correct it if it is wrong.

However it is also the reason I continued to responded on this thread - I have never been subject to such abuse, ridicule and insults from anyone on this forum. (and I get quite a bit)
I do not mind its personal nature, I have a thick skin - however the reason for it was because I dare question or disagree with them.

No-one has the right to hide behind their 'reputation' and use it to avoid answering questions, in fact they should welcome being challenged and teaching others.

Python has been a bully on this thread.
He has lost all objectivity on this matter, which is a shame as they do possess a wealth of information and could add greatly to any debate.
But who would respond or question a poster who berates people in the way they have done to myself and MI?

My mistake in the forum was standing up to them and responding, and even though it is a fundamental shift in my view anymore if faced with the same decision I will report rather than respond.

 

[python]

Excellent post - so for my part may I state my apologies to you and the rest of the Forum.

insincere. b/c you've apologized before and proceeded to do the same disrupting the forum on too many threads bullying and bashing when all that was offered was a different opinion.

However it is also the reason I continued to responded on this thread - I have never been subject to such abuse, ridicule and insults from anyone on this forum. (and I get quite a bit)

many can claim the same receiving the abuse from you. when called to task , you whine.

Python has been a bully

again, i have provided plenty of examples how you bashed and bullied others both on this thread and elsewhere.

.... they do possess a wealth of information and could add greatly to any debate

you choke many of my attempts at the root by intentionally distorting and twisting. insincere again.

My mistake in the forum was standing up to them and responding, .

if this is a mistake why did you make it in this very thread so many times. why did you not attempt to engage in the productive exchange when i pointed out your misrepresenting ? again, insincere.

 

[palmerq]

wot :S you two are still going at each other, both of you stop it now or else... talk about contador!

 

[Zam_Olyas]

lol..doesnt look like ending.

 

[sniper]

Excellent post - so for my part may I state my apologies to you and the rest of the Forum.

Not visiting (or engaging) in the Forum is the exact opposite of what I would wish here.
I am a 3 legged mule, I have never stated an expertise in any area, because I have none. That is why I wish to learn from more posters, share the information - which is why when possible I link stuff. Let the reader decide if they have the same conclusions, argue an alternative, or correct it if it is wrong.

However it is also the reason I continued to responded on this thread - I have never been subject to such abuse, ridicule and insults from anyone on this forum. (and I get quite a bit)
I do not mind its personal nature, I have a thick skin - however the reason for it was because I dare question or disagree with them.

No-one has the right to hide behind their 'reputation' and use it to avoid answering questions, in fact they should welcome being challenged and teaching others.

Python has been a bully on this thread.
He has lost all objectivity on this matter, which is a shame as they do possess a wealth of information and could add greatly to any debate.
But who would respond or question a poster who berates people in the way they have done to myself and MI?

My mistake in the forum was standing up to them and responding, and even though it is a fundamental shift in my view anymore if faced with the same decision I will report rather than respond.

Keep it up, Doc. I personally wasn't really bothered by anything here. As I see it, you guys were simply settling an argument. Nothing wrong with that.
Also, I always find you to be very diplomatic in your wording, never offensive in any case.

EDIT: And python, though I guess python can be a bully at times, we all know deep inside he aint really a bad guy either, I guess even Doc would agree, right?

 

[spetsa]

Excellent post - so for my part may I state my apologies to you and the rest of the Forum.

Not visiting (or engaging) in the Forum is the exact opposite of what I would wish here.
I am a 3 legged mule, I have never stated an expertise in any area, because I have none. That is why I wish to learn from more posters, share the information - which is why when possible I link stuff. Let the reader decide if they have the same conclusions, argue an alternative, or correct it if it is wrong.

However it is also the reason I continued to responded on this thread - I have never been subject to such abuse, ridicule and insults from anyone on this forum. (and I get quite a bit)
I do not mind its personal nature, I have a thick skin - however the reason for it was because I dare question or disagree with them.

No-one has the right to hide behind their 'reputation' and use it to avoid answering questions, in fact they should welcome being challenged and teaching others.
Python has been a bully on this thread.
He has lost all objectivity on this matter, which is a shame as they do possess a wealth of information and could add greatly to any debate.
But who would respond or question a poster who berates people in the way they have done to myself and MI?
My mistake in the forum was standing up to them and responding, and even though it is a fundamental shift in my view anymore if faced with the same decision I will report rather than respond.

You obviously were not looking in the mirror when this half a**ed response was written. Are trying to apologize? Sounds more like justify to me. You are a joke who has made this area of the forum impossible to have a discussion. If someone were to take the time to peruse all of your previous posts, they would probably find that a quarter of them were you putting yourself in the middle of a debate, claiming to be all knowing while ridiculing one of the other posters out of the discussion and calling it a victory. Pretty sad really.

 

[palmerq]

ack, last warning for everybody in this thread, please keep it on topic and not insulting....please :S

 

[offbyone]

It blows me away that we are still waiting on a decision. Just like the rest of the doping policies, they need to review the decision process and put timely limits on it and add more transparency to the process. Fans and even dopers, have a right to know what to expect when they are under review.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Thanks for the updates everyone. I too am baffled that it's taken forever and ever and ever.

Odd I could see your post through all the new in-post spam.

Yes, I noticed the same thing!

 

[spetsa]

It blows me away that we are still waiting on a decision. Just like the rest of the doping policies, they need to review the decision process and put timely limits on it and add more transparency to the process. Fans and even dopers, have a right to know what to expect when they are under review.

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, for the timeliness of the decision, that transparency that you mention is actually being asked of the governing bodies (not just cycling) and they are having trouble figuring out how to go on operating as per usual, with it in place. Let's hope it bodes well for the future.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

It blows me away that we are still waiting on a decision. Just like the rest of the doping policies, they need to review the decision process and put timely limits on it and add more transparency to the process. Fans and even dopers, have a right to know what to expect when they are under review.

Hope they hurry up and make a decision - at least in time before this thread gets closed down!

 

[Beech Mtn]

Susan - Can I be a moderator? I think I'd be good at it.

I wholeheartedly support this. The Hog and WonderLance for CN Forum mods in 2012!

I bet €5 there will be another delay.
And after the ruling, which-ever it is, there will be another appeal.
<snipped>

This is what I'm afraid of - an endless round of appeals from one side or the other, another big tangled mess like the Valverde case that just drags on.

Whatever CAS rules, it has a good chance of being precendent-setting with regards to strict liability, so I could definitely see WADA appealing if the ruling is pro-AC. There's a lot that would change if WADA didn't have strict liability to fall back on. Think of all the excuses we already get in doping cases, and magnify that. IMO.

 

[cprior]

Could moderators allow for a second thread about the Contador hearings the day something substantial happens?
I find myself clicking in here way too often…

 

[ferryman]

ack, last warning for everybody in this thread, please keep it on topic and not insulting....please :S

Just pretend they have had a fight in class and take them into the corridor, cuff them round the ear and make them say sorry and shake hands and we are all friends again

The technicalities of some of the clinic topics are largely beyond my ken but I do enjoy reading both Python's and Dr M's (and others) posts on them. BUT this in fight has, frankly, become tedious and offputting. Put down your shields guys PLEASE, and move on

Olive branch anyone?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It blows me away that we are still waiting on a decision. Just like the rest of the doping policies, they need to review the decision process and put timely limits on it and add more transparency to the process. Fans and even dopers, have a right to know what to expect when they are under review.

I disagree - I think there should be no time limit on any review when it comes to making a decision. Getting the correct, fair and just decision for me beats any delay.

There are a number of problems with a case like Contadors. There will be a large volume of technical, scientific and statistically information to wade through and more importantly any decision has to be legally tight, as an appeal through the Swiss Courts is extremely likely and CAS would not want whichever decision they make overturned.

However, CAS do not help themselves by pushing back the date. They would have been better off calling say February from the beginning and if it came in before that everyone would be happy.

 

[Ferminal]

Could moderators allow for a second thread about the Contador hearings the day something substantial happens?
I find myself clicking in here way too often…

Yes, most definitely.

 

[offbyone]

I disagree - I think there should be no time limit on any review when it comes to making a decision. Getting the correct, fair and just decision for me beats any delay.

There are a number of problems with a case like Contadors. There will be a large volume of technical, scientific and statistically information to wade through and more importantly any decision has to be legally tight, as an appeal through the Swiss Courts is extremely likely and CAS would not want whichever decision they make overturned.

However, CAS do not help themselves by pushing back the date. They would have been better off calling say February from the beginning and if it came in before that everyone would be happy.

They don't necessarily have to have a single process. But no matter what, they should be able to set reasonable expectations that they make transparent to the cyclist and cycling community. At the very least any case will have a basic process: research, court, decision, etc.

I understand your point, but for instance, in this situation, all the information has been vetted for some time now. There are no more hearings. Once all the data is on the table, a decision shouldn't take months.

I can only surmise that the decision is taking so long because politics is involved, rather than the anti doping rules and scientific evidence.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I can only surmise that the decision is taking so long because politics is involved, rather than the anti doping rules and scientific evidence.

In ordinary Courts, in most countries, decisions can be announced a long time after the hearing has concluded. Particularly if the case is technical, complex, or in some other way difficult.

It really isn't all that unusual.

 

[BYOP88]

Are we nearly there yet?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Are we nearly there yet?

Maybe we are, maybe not.

 

[Havetts]

3 days to go, how are the nerves?

 

[doolols]

3 days to go, how are the nerves?

Mine are shot to bits. And yet again, his grinning mug was everywhere yesterday / today. He doesn't seem to be bothered at all, winning stages without a care in the world.

 

[palmerq]

Mine are shot to bits. And yet again, his grinning mug was everywhere yesterday / today. He doesn't seem to be bothered at all, winning stages without a care in the world.

I guess he is trying to influence the decision :S


Impression I get is that he will get off, although I really dont think he should but whatever..

but when does the decision get delayed to just before the tour de france... I think the can delay it a bit more

 

[doolols]

I guess he is trying to influence the decision :S

If he is, then he's probably wasting his time. The decision's been made some time ago.

Impression I get is that he will get off, although I really dont think he should but whatever..

Same here. Life ain't fair.

but when does the decision get delayed to just before the tour de france... I think the can delay it a bit more

I don't think so. There was that statement at the last delay, where they offered to change the panel. They said by the end of the month then, so they must be pretty close to making the announcement.