Official "another interesting piece I found on Alberto Contador" Thread

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Dr. Maserati

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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JRTinMA said:
I think it was classless, I think they were fans, I think they were classless cycling fans. My experience has always been that fans come to sporting events they are fans of, ie cycling fans to cycling. I was invited to a cricket game/match on this trip, I passed as I'm not a fan. You think booing is cool that's your decision. I would not want to boo your favorite rider in front of you. I've learned this could be dangerous.
Click to expand...

I already said that I would not boo any rider - however I understand why others would.

I hope you are not trying to suggest that the only sport you have ever watched is cycling??
I have been to many sports events that I am not a fan of, including one where I had to ask which team was the home team.
I can understand passing on the cricket - however a free bar would certainly help me reconsider.
 
JRTinMA

JRTinMA

Jul 29, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
I already said that I would not boo any rider - however I understand why others would.

I hope you are not trying to suggest that the only sport you have ever watched is cycling??
I have been to many sports events that I am not a fan of, including one where I had to ask which team was the home team.
I can understand passing on the cricket - however a free bar would certainly help me reconsider.
Click to expand...

Baseball and cycling. I attended a soccer game in Glasgow once, got drunk and nearly killed, good times! I only meant you thought booing was cool, not that you would boo. We should get back on topic or we risk a 1st offense, under the new marshal law imposed for July I could be out right at the beginning of my three week cycling holiday. Cheers doc
 
StyrbjornSterki

StyrbjornSterki

Jul 18, 2010
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Contador Chases a Title He Might Lose in Court

By JULIET MACUR
Published: June 30, 2011

The Tour de France begins Saturday on France’s western coastline, and the best overall riders there will share the same goal: to win cycling’s most prestigious race and beat Alberto Contador, the Spanish rider who has dominated the event for the past two years.

But this year, in a strange twist, a second-place finish to Contador might not mean defeat. Even after the Tour ends in Paris on July 24, that runner-up might still have a chance to claim the 2011 Tour title.

Contador tested positive for clenbuterol, a banned weight-loss and muscle-building drug, at last year’s Tour, and a hearing scheduled for Aug. 1-3 at the Court of Arbitration for Sport will determine whether he should be barred from competing. He insists he is innocent and failed the test because he ate contaminated beef.

If the court rules against him, he will be stripped of his 2010 Tour title and any other victories since then — including this year’s Giro d’Italia crown and, perhaps, this year’s Tour title, too.

“It’s really hard to understand why he’s still racing,” said Rolf Aldag, team manager of the HTC-Highroad squad and a former Tour rider. “I’m not sure why they couldn’t make a quicker decision about whether he is guilty or not. The problem is that everything is so up in the air right now, and that’s not good for anybody.”


*** edited by mod ***
 
J

JMBeaushrimp

Jul 6, 2010
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StyrbjornSterki said:
Contador Chases a Title He Might Lose in Court

By JULIET MACUR
Published: June 30, 2011

The Tour de France begins Saturday on France’s western coastline, and the best overall riders there will share the same goal: to win cycling’s most prestigious race and beat Alberto Contador, the Spanish rider who has dominated the event for the past two years.

But this year, in a strange twist, a second-place finish to Contador might not mean defeat. Even after the Tour ends in Paris on July 24, that runner-up might still have a chance to claim the 2011 Tour title.

Contador tested positive for clenbuterol, a banned weight-loss and muscle-building drug, at last year’s Tour, and a hearing scheduled for Aug. 1-3 at the Court of Arbitration for Sport will determine whether he should be barred from competing. He insists he is innocent and failed the test because he ate contaminated beef.

If the court rules against him, he will be stripped of his 2010 Tour title and any other victories since then — including this year’s Giro d’Italia crown and, perhaps, this year’s Tour title, too.

“It’s really hard to understand why he’s still racing,” said Rolf Aldag, team manager of the HTC-Highroad squad and a former Tour rider. “I’m not sure why they couldn’t make a quicker decision about whether he is guilty or not. The problem is that everything is so up in the air right now, and that’s not good for anybody.”


*** edited by mod ***
Click to expand...

Let me translate for Rolf: "Why he's still racing is that everything is soup".

Just make sure you don't spit in it...
 
Mrs John Murphy

Mrs John Murphy

May 3, 2010
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craig1985 said:
Tour Files: The Teflon Spaniard - Anthony Tan
Click to expand...

Tan still really skirts around the issue with his 'tefloness'. It isn't just the clen case, it is the way he avoid Puerto, his head to head with Rasmussen - Chicken gets popped but Dertie doesn't, 2008 and the CERA Giro - Ricco, Sella, all get busted but somehow he avoids it all (wonder what would happen if they ever retested the blood samples), the Verbier climb in 2009 and then the clen case.

Tan doesn't really ask the right questions, he's not really telling us anything that we don't know. The question he could have been more explicit about is why has the UCI failed to get this case resolved? I think we get certain hints from people - that Dertie as a pantomime villain (in the absence of Ricco) - is money and press coverage.

That said, I rolled my eyes at the claims about HGH being squeaky clean, but that is another story for another day.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Good news for cycling. Would suck if they take 3 GT titles away.

Ok 2 :D
Click to expand...

would be another prime example of how some cyclists are more equal than others.
hurray. great news indeed.
 
Berzin

Berzin

Aug 6, 2009
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sniper said:
would be another prime example of how some cyclists are more equal than others.
hurray. great news indeed.
Click to expand...

What do you expect? A level and equal playing field never has and never will exist anywhere in life.

So to expect professional sports to live up to some contrived standard of fairness is an exercise in futility.
 
python

python

Sep 25, 2009
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some background on de mondenard may put his opinion into the perspective...

he authored several technical books on anti-doping including the widely respected classic 'dictionnaire du dopage'.

his views can be summarized as an equal opportunity sceptic critical of both the athletes and the corruption of ad authorities.


he is the same guy who said ‘armstrong takes us for idiots’.

his most relevant view in the case contador may be that despite being generally critical of blood passport he still considers contamination the likeliest cause for clen positive.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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python said:
some background on de mondenard may put his opinion into the perspective...

he authored several technical books on anti-doping including the widely respected classic 'dictionnaire du dopage'.

his views can be summarized as an equal opportunity sceptic critical of both the athletes and the corruption of ad authorities.


he is the same guy who said ‘armstrong takes us for idiots’.

his most relevant view in the case contador may be that despite being generally critical of blood passport he still considers contamination the likeliest cause for clen positive.
Click to expand...

Who doesn't? It IS the most likely cause for a clen positive.

But crucially not in the case of Aldirto.

1. 2nd rest day of the Tour.
2. spanish meat has no reputation of clen-contamination
3. no teammates of Aldirty tested positive
4. plasticizers
5. aldirto himself has said he generally doesn't eat meat.
etc....

it's really about doing the math, joining the dots, weighing the odds, etc...

What I found interesting is Mondenard's criticism of the WADA, that they never really tested what happens if you feed an athlete with contaminated meat, e.g. to see how quickly it dissolves, and how much of it is traceable in dope tests.
 
M

Merckx index

Jul 27, 2010
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He says “contamination by meat is possible. Studies prove it.” Contamination is possible if the meat has a high enough level of CB, but studies demonstrate that vanishingly small amounts of Spanish meat have this requisite level. So this statement by him is disingenuous.

Then he goes on to say that to prove otherwise, WADA would have to do a study feeding contaminated meat to riders and testing them. Why? There are enough pharmacokinetic data in the literature to estimate a range of CB that Bert must have consumed, then compare that with the likely levels found in Spanish meat. The numbers are so far off from being in Bert's favor that all a study such as he suggests could do is be a little clearer about how far over the inspection limit such contaminated meat would have had to be. That might be helpful for future cases, but it's really not needed here (Interesting, though, that when I suggested something along these lines a while back—that Spanish citizens should come forward and be tested for CB, to see how prevalent contaminated meat really is in that country, I was ridiculed by many here, including Python).

He also trots out the “Clenbuterol would not have much of a performance enhancing effect, there would be no point in taking so little on the rest day” argument. Completely ignoring the blood transfusion possibility. Why? Surely he must understand this is the essence of the case against Bert. Even RFEC in its apparent whitewash addressed the transfusion possibility (though totally inadequately), demonstrating at least that they recognized it as a valid potential explanation.

If he is as knowledgeable about doping as Python says, I can only assume he’s basing his prediction on what he knows about the politics of these cases, the kinds of arguments that are and are not allowed. He may be right about that, I'm certainly not privy to what goes on in the heads of these judges. But strictly following the science, the evidence remains overwhelming against Bert.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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yeah, mondenard definitely seems to be on AC's payroll.
no serious thinker would believe AC's steak tale has any substantiality.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Merckx index said:
He says “contamination by meat is possible. Studies prove it.” Contamination is possible if the meat has a high enough level of CB, but studies demonstrate that vanishingly small amounts of Spanish meat have this requisite level. So this statement by him is disingenuous.

Then he goes on to say that to prove otherwise, WADA would have to do a study feeding contaminated meat to riders and testing them. Why? There are enough pharmacokinetic data in the literature to estimate a range of CB that Bert must have consumed, then compare that with the likely levels found in Spanish meat. The numbers are so far off from being in Bert's favor that all a study such as he suggests could do is be a little clearer about how far over the inspection limit such contaminated meat would have had to be. That might be helpful for future cases, but it's really not needed here (Interesting, though, that when I suggested something along these lines a while back—that Spanish citizens should come forward and be tested for CB, to see how prevalent contaminated meat really is in that country, I was ridiculed by many here, including Python).

He also trots out the “Clenbuterol would not have much of a performance enhancing effect, there would be no point in taking so little on the rest day” argument. Completely ignoring the blood transfusion possibility. Why? Surely he must understand this is the essence of the case against Bert. Even RFEC in its apparent whitewash addressed the transfusion possibility (though totally inadequately), demonstrating at least that they recognized it as a valid potential explanation.

If he is as knowledgeable about doping as Python says, I can only assume he’s basing his prediction on what he knows about the politics of these cases, the kinds of arguments that are and are not allowed. He may be right about that, I'm certainly not privy to what goes on in the heads of these judges. But strictly following the science, the evidence remains overwhelming against Bert.
Click to expand...

this is what I thought as well.

either that or Mondernard is on AC's payroll.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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python said:
obviously de mondenard has earned the right to look down on the clinic pseudoscience.
Click to expand...

don't forget what a guy like Kimmage said about AC's steaktale: an insult to our intelligence.
and that's what it is.
De mondenard seemed to be referring only to what he thinks will be the outcome of the CAS ruling (and we all agree there that AC may very well be absolved), not to what he thinks really happened.
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
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sniper said:
don't forget what a guy like Kimmage said about AC's steaktale: an insult to our intelligence.
and that's what it is.
De mondenard seemed to be referring only to what he thinks will be the outcome of the CAS ruling (and we all agree there that AC may very well be absolved), not to what he thinks really happened.
Click to expand...

Sigh.... Luckily you're not the one who has to decide in Alberto's case.
 
Arnout

Arnout

Mar 10, 2009
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sniper said:
don't forget what a guy like Kimmage said about AC's steaktale: an insult to our intelligence.
and that's what it is.
De mondenard seemed to be referring only to what he thinks will be the outcome of the CAS ruling (and we all agree there that AC may very well be absolved), not to what he thinks really happened.
Click to expand...

Ehm sorry but this guy is way more credible than a frustrated ex rider who, no matter the facts, will always say a rider doped. Because he has a strong personal opinion about the usage of PEDs in cycling, his statements are not even close to being credible.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Arnout said:
Ehm sorry but this guy is way more credible than a frustrated ex rider who, no matter the facts, will always say a rider doped. Because he has a strong personal opinion about the usage of PEDs in cycling, his statements are not even close to being credible.
Click to expand...

as I said, we all believe Dirty will be absolved.
we were discussing whether Mondenard's words suggest that he believes Dirty is really innocent, or whether he merely believes Dirty will be absolved by CAS, regardless of whether he's innocent.
I don't see what credibility has to do with it.
 
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