Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Landis" Thread

[gooner]

An article on Allen Lim.

In 2005 Lim got an offer from Saris Cycling Group, the company behind PowerTap, to help coach a sponsored rider: Floyd Landis. He thought it would be the perfect opportunity to apply his research—but instead, Lim says, “I really walked into a **** show.” He became a witness to Landis’ doping, at one point having to nurse the rider back to health after a bad blood transfusion. Lim quit, but he agreed to return in a limited role after Landis promised he’d never dope again. A year later, with Lim as his training adviser, Landis won the Tour de France after a spectacular breakaway in Stage 17, a brutal 113-mile route through the mountains. But two weeks after the victory, officials announced that doping tests following Landis’ Stage 17 ride had come back positive, a finding Landis vehemently disputed.

Lim says he had suspected Landis was still doping but insists he had no part in it. He does, however, take partial credit for Landis’ now-notorious Stage 17 performance. “Floyd, like a lot of other riders, was doped out of his mind,” Lim says. “But he won because of rational thinking.” Lim had persuaded Landis to continually pour bottles of cold water on his head that day so he’d be racing in what felt like 65-degree weather, instead of the 100 degrees everyone else was facing.

Still, Lim’s time with Landis was traumatizing. “I was not the guy who helped Floyd Landis dope, but I was the guy who helped Floyd Landis survive doping,” Lim says in a rare moment of open frustration at the accusations he’s faced since. “And sometimes I wish I had just let him die.”

Of course, he adds quickly, “I wouldn’t do that.”

In 2010 Lim became director of sport science for Team RadioShack—which was led by Lance Armstrong, around whom doping allegations had been swirling for years. “Up to that point,” Lim says, “I had spent my whole career despising Lance, actively hating everything he stood for.” Lim believes it was Armstrong who inspired Floyd Landis to cheat, Armstrong whom Slipstream’s methods were implicitly challenging. So how could Lim possibly work for him? At the time, Lim spoke of wanting a more focused role—concentrating on science and technology and working primarily with Armstrong—but there was money as well. After the ’09 Tour de France, Lim told Slipstream he wanted to reduce his commitment; as a result, he says, Slipstream wanted to halve his $120,000 salary. Soon after, Armstrong offered him the job for roughly double what Lim had been making. “I felt like I had been taken advantage of,” Lim says. “The cleanest team in the world wasn’t going to take care of me—but the dirtiest guy in the world was.”

Still, Lim says, the decision wasn’t easy. Landis had confirmed to Lim that Armstrong, his former teammate on the US Postal Service squad, had long doped. But Lim saw it as the only option he had at the time as a sports scientist. “If I could transform Lance’s culture,” Lim says of Armstrong’s mindset, “I could change the arms race.”

But one thing was clear: This time there would be no plucky upstart effort like Slipstream for Lim to fall back on. “Until he’s prepared to come clean with his involvement with Floyd Landis and Lance Armstrong, I am not interested in supporting him in anything he does,” longtime Slipstream team physician Prentice Steffen says. (Vaughters had even less to say about his former ally, declining to comment for this article.)

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/02/skratch-labs/

 

[Granville57]

“I felt like I had been taken advantage of,” Lim says. “The cleanest team in the world wasn’t going to take care of me—but the dirtiest guy in the world was.”

A man of principles.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Tiger is certainly not a guy to Fork with. He likes to win. He was one of a few that advised on the Qui Tam. I think Floyd is still living there as his address appears on the filings. I talked to him a few weeks ago he was skiing in Vermont.

While Floyd may take advice from a few people he is his own man, and a very smart man at that. Lance's biggest mistake was to underestimate Floyd.

This is just my favorite quote

 

[Granville57]

Always one of my favorites. Look me in the eye, Allen.


http://www.bicycling.com/video/atoc-allen-lim-addresses-allegations#/search/allen%20lim/created/d/1

 

[D-Queued]

An article on Allen Lim.

...Lim says he had suspected Landis was still doping but insists he had no part in it. ...

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/02/skratch-labs/

I have been critical of Lim in the past.

However, these statements were recently corroborated to me by someone close to Lim who noted that Lim had sought guidance and had struggled with whether he should have exposed Landis...

Dave.

 

[mewmewmew13]

A man of principles.

ffs..citing his 'scientific obligation' as the reason he took the chunk of $$ offered by Lance..:roll eyes:
nice, Allen..

I wonder what he has to say about Ochowicz..

 

[Granville57]

I have been critical of Lim in the past.

However, these statements were recently corroborated to me by someone close to Lim who noted that Lim had sought guidance and had struggled with whether he should have exposed Landis...

Dave.

Wow. I have to admit something here. I read this article a couple of days ago (no recollection how I became aware of it) but I don't remember any of those parts involving Floyd—which certainly would've lept off the page at me. So either I inadvertently scrolled right past those parts (I could've been reading from my phone) or they were added since this was first released.

Is this the first time Lim has come clean about that? I've never heard him 'fess up to being in-the-know about Floyd before.

Now I have to go back and re-read the entire article. Veeerryyy slooowwwly.

[Edit]
Totally bizarre. Somehow I missed the entire middle of that article the first time around. Fascinating, really.

 

[Granville57]

An article on Allen Lim.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2014/02/skratch-labs/

I'm absolutely dumbfounded by this. So much so that I had to post twice.

As a sub-plot that I've followed quite closely over the years, I just can't believe that Lim's admission hasn't gotten more attention—unless I've really, really missed the boat on this one.

I also can't believe how much flak I used to take over at Velonews for suggesting that Lim knew about Floyd's doping!




Because he did!

 

[mewmewmew13]

I missed that Lim thing before as well!

I owe him an apology if indeed he is an innocent soul. He is the sports scientist of the hour around Boulder these days that's for sure.
He shows up in one of my coffee haunts and I'm always tempted to go ask him about his past…

I

 

[Granville57]

I owe him an apology if indeed he is an innocent soul.

Where exactly does he suggest that ?


(And no, I'm not going back and reading it again)

 

[mewmewmew13]

Where exactly does he suggest that ?


(And no, I'm not going back and reading it again)

lol
well…how could someone be a 'sports scientist' and a big deal in the training world with pro cyclists and not have a clue of what your client is putting in his/her body..you would think it would be noticeable?? I just don't know..

By the way…I think I would have suggested dumping water on Floyd's head to cool down and I don't have a sports science degree…

 

[mewmewmew13]

Where exactly does he suggest that ?


(And no, I'm not going back and reading it again)

I know..I editorialize too much..

 

[Granville57]

By the way…I think I would have suggested dumping water on Floyd's head to cool down and I don't have a sports science degree…

Nonsense.

No one had ever thought of that before.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm absolutely dumbfounded by this. So much so that I had to post twice.

As a sub-plot that I've followed quite closely over the years, I just can't believe that Lim's admission hasn't gotten more attention—unless I've really, really missed the boat on this one.

I also can't believe how much flak I used to take over at Velonews for suggesting that Lim knew about Floyd's doping!

Because he did!

Pretty sure I saw a video where Lim flat out denied knowing what Floyd was doing, doping-wise.

 

[DirtyWorks]

lol
well…how could someone be a 'sports scientist' and a big deal in the training world with pro cyclists and not have a clue of what your client is putting in his/her body..you would think it would be noticeable??

Blinders come with healthy wages apparently.

So, Lim is little more than another front for a doping scheme. It sounds like it won't affect hi current customers.

 

[Granville57]

Pretty sure I saw a video where Lim flat out denied knowing what Floyd was doing, doping-wise.

Was it here, Post # 5872?

Always one of my favorites. Look me in the eye, Allen.

http://www.bicycling.com/video/atoc-allen-lim-addresses-allegations#/search/allen%20lim/created/d/1

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Was it here, Post # 5872?

Yes, that is the video I remembered, but from a long, long time ago. I am glad you have been vindicated.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Gville your photos are hilarious!


also LOL vid wars here ..

 

[Granville57]

Gville your photos are hilarious!

Shhhh. I didn't take them.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Blinders come with healthy wages apparently.

So, Lim is little more than another front for a doping scheme. It sounds like it won't affect hi current customers.

Well now Lim has moved on from his 'Floyd Kool-Down" days..
http://youtu.be/P8DH5VLOSuY

 

[Granville57]

Well now Lim has moved on from his 'Floyd Kool-Down" days..
http://youtu.be/P8DH5VLOSuY

Oh the sweet irony. He credits himself for getting Floyd to dowse himself, and then puts out an ad campaign about the benefits of not dowsing.



Of course it never occurred to Floyd to cool himself with water, mid-race, prior to consulting with the Rice Cake King.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Blinders come with healthy wages apparently.

So, Lim is little more than another front for a doping scheme. It sounds like it won't affect hi current customers.

Nah, he is not running a doping scheme, but he is full of it.

I gotta kick that he got approx $250k to join Armstrong - thats a lot of money for not a lot of return, if LA had used that and got Floyd a place on the team (or another team) it might have been a better investment as things might be different now.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Shhhh. I didn't take them.

that wasn't you??






Granville I think we are bombing this thread..

 

[Granville57]

Granville I think we are bombing this thread..

Speak for yourself. At least I got pics.

I gotta kick that he got approx $250k to join Armstrong - thats a lot of money for not a lot of return, if LA had used that and got Floyd a place on the team (or another team)...

Or, ya' know, just given it to him.

 

[mewmewmew13]