Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Landis" Thread

[Caruut]

Sniper and Butto, I stand corrected.

In the UK, they banned darts players from drinking while playing because they thought it made the sport look stupid.

 

[thehog]

I have to agree with you. US cycle racing and European cycle race are sports like the early days of horse racing. Cash was king and deals were (are) part of the trade. I was so bad at that game but there were those who knew how negotiate a hotel, race fee and travel expense for each race they travelled to. Many would come 6th and make more than the race winner. The same story exists when it comes to drugs. They were bought, sold and traded across the peloton with ridiculous ease. This was still the case right up to around 2008. There has been a sea-change after Pureto but what Lance orchestrated was a well trodden path. Jalbert being one who profiting more from drug selling than winning.

Landis's stories are colourful. They will sound like rock n roll and the media will love them along with the packed courtrooms.

Lance's biggest crime is not the drug use but pretending he was something he wasn't. He probably couldn't believe his own luck that an adorning American public actually believed his performances were clean. Everyone in Europe at the time knew he wasn't. But the more he denied the more it turned into not only an attack upon him but an attack on America and the bigger he got - supporters became cult like and defending Lance became a sport in itself - often to the point of harassment. Armstrong's biggest addiction wasn't drugs but he got off I being god-like and being defended to the death by his followers.

In terms of the trial it will be complicated. Armstrong was doing what everyone else was doing - my only unanswered question is will he be willing to checkmate himself and admit to doping under the premise that it was "part of sport". I don't know. If he keeps lying and pretends to be clean he's going to look mighty stupid and he'll go to jail. If he admits and explains that the drugs and transport of money was part of the game he might have a chance....... time will tell.

My final point is Lance got himself involved in many business arrangements which traded on his clean image. CTS is one.... this was premeditated lie and cash in. He may get off on most of the charges but the hit to his image is going to be huge. He made fun of lot of people who he was pretending to support.

I think some of the reasons you give are why Lance is not in more trouble. His taxes are done by professionals. So little of his income comes from racing has to be a big advantage. The fact that there are a few hundred athletes that make a living at racing a bike in the US also has to help him. He stands alone in his peer group/tax bracket.
The fact that the long list of accusers is mixed with Andersons( boy Friday that he didn't fund bike shop for, was fine until he was fired) Andreau, Hamilton.
Who can forget Landis ,told one story wrote it down, went on a press junket and then when the world caved in, came clean. Not really clean, clean w a reason, it's all Lance's fault. I would still love to get a bottle of JD and find out just what Lance had to do w Phonak. Poor Novitzky ,probably head in hands wonders how he could have been dealt such a huge bag of sh-t when it comes to witnesses. When he tries to find an example of a clean, well run bike racing organization in the US he finds some of the most bizarre tax returns known to man. Most probably make the studio apt animal rescue groups
taking 1000's in deductions appear legit. Lance may be dirty but the company he has kept will make him look clean in comparison.
I still dream of Landis on the stand, Lance's defense team with multiple copies of French court rulings, tour urine test results and copies of Positively False w dozens of post it notes sticking out of it. God help him if Lance through one of his financial misdirections gave money to the Floyd Fairness Fund..bombshell.

"Mr.Landis, you are currently employed as an aspiring race car driver is that right?". If that won't get the courtroom rolling on the floor nothing will. I would let him explain his last 10 years of sort of telling the truth and then get into the race car thing.
When Landis gets audited for the Fairness Fund it's game over.

 

[thehog]

One last point is the FFF, Phonak and Lance.

You'll be surprised but Armstrong was the one who helped set up the FFF and provided advice on the tax structures and found people to donate. Armstrong also assisted in the the Floyd is innocent campaign.

Armstrong will look more stupid from this period than anyone. The recorded phone calls will be the most telling.

Floyd is too honest to set up the FFF alone.

The body blow for the Armstrong camp will be when the entire UBS sham comes down..... with the hatred of Wall St in America right now this won't help one bit. Making money is one thing but channelling money through Swiss bank accounts and avoiding pay tax in the US is another....

I think some of the reasons you give are why Lance is not in more trouble. His taxes are done by professionals. So little of his income comes from racing has to be a big advantage. The fact that there are a few hundred athletes that make a living at racing a bike in the US also has to help him. He stands alone in his peer group/tax bracket.
The fact that the long list of accusers is mixed with Andersons( boy Friday that he didn't fund bike shop for, was fine until he was fired) Andreau, Hamilton.
Who can forget Landis ,told one story wrote it down, went on a press junket and then when the world caved in, came clean. Not really clean, clean w a reason, it's all Lance's fault. I would still love to get a bottle of JD and find out just what Lance had to do w Phonak. Poor Novitzky ,probably head in hands wonders how he could have been dealt such a huge bag of sh-t when it comes to witnesses. When he tries to find an example of a clean, well run bike racing organization in the US he finds some of the most bizarre tax returns known to man. Most probably make the studio apt animal rescue groups
taking 1000's in deductions appear legit. Lance may be dirty but the company he has kept will make him look clean in comparison.
I still dream of Landis on the stand, Lance's defense team with multiple copies of French court rulings, tour urine test results and copies of Positively False w dozens of post it notes sticking out of it. God help him if Lance through one of his financial misdirections gave money to the Floyd Fairness Fund..bombshell.

"Mr.Landis, you are currently employed as an aspiring race car driver is that right?". If that won't get the courtroom rolling on the floor nothing will. I would let him explain his last 10 years of sort of telling the truth and then get into the race car thing.
When Landis gets audited for the Fairness Fund it's game over.

 

[TexPat]

I think some of the reasons you give are why Lance is not in more trouble. His taxes are done by professionals. So little of his income comes from racing has to be a big advantage. The fact that there are a few hundred athletes that make a living at racing a bike in the US also has to help him. He stands alone in his peer group/tax bracket.
The fact that the long list of accusers is mixed with Andersons( boy Friday that he didn't fund bike shop for, was fine until he was fired) Andreau, Hamilton.

Actually, I wasn't fine, though admittedly somewhat acquiescent until he sued me in order to get me to sign a hush agreement. But don't let facts get in the way.

What was your point?

 

[Cloxxki]

Actually, I wasn't fine, though admittedly somewhat acquiescent until he sued me in order to get me to sign a hush agreement. But don't let facts get in the way.

What was your point?

Credible accusers. That's something Lance never dealt with very well. They make him look bad in all the unique little ways that define him.

 

[Velodude]

..<snip>...Who can forget Landis ,told one story wrote it down, went on a press junket and then when the world caved in, came clean. Not really clean, clean w a reason, it's all Lance's fault. I would still love to get a bottle of JD and find out just what Lance had to do w Phonak. Poor Novitzky ,probably head in hands wonders how he could have been dealt such a huge bag of sh-t when it comes to witnesses. ...<snip>...

Problem with LA and his supporters looking to analyzes similar to yours is that all statements by Floyd relating to US Postal conduct do not rely on his credibility.

He has provided the starting points and LA would have to rely on all the selected members on the US Postal roster perjuring themselves to refute Floyd's evidence.

That has not occurred from my reading. Issues like team doping en masse, bikes for cash for doping program, bribes paid to UCI to make a 2001 positive disappear, etc., have already been corroborated by other team members.

 

[MarkvW]

When Landis gets audited for the Fairness Fund it's game over.

An audit would just show that all the money that went into the Fairness Fund went to Floyd's doping defense. That's where Floyd said that the money was going to go.

There might be a problem nailing Floyd for fraud because Floyd has consistently maintained that he did not take testosterone in the TdF and that he does not understand how the positive testosterone result could have happened. In other words, Floyd has consistently maintained that the results of his positive TdF test were "Positively False."

One of the reasons for that position taken by Floyd may very well be Floyd's desire to avoid criminal prosecution for fraud relating to the Fairness Fund.

I'm not sure that there ever was a clear admission by Floyd that he doped in that TdF and I'm not aware of any statements made by Floyd about pre-TdF doping (or non-doping) that were made with intent to get donors to give to the Fairness Fund.

If the prosecutor doesn't have a clear admission by Floyd that he lied to get people to contribute to the Fairness Fund, then the prosecutor is going to need proof that Floyd lied to get people to contribute to the fund. No prosecutor, State or Federal, has shown any inclination to get that proof. And the statute of limitations ticks on . . ..

The Fairness Fund Fraud is a game Floyd has won.

 

[thehog]

An audit would just show that all the money that went into the Fairness Fund went to Floyd's doping defense. That's where Floyd said that the money was going to go.

There might be a problem nailing Floyd for fraud because Floyd has consistently maintained that he did not take testosterone in the TdF and that he does not understand how the positive testosterone result could have happened. In other words, Floyd has consistently maintained that the results of his positive TdF test were "Positively False."

One of the reasons for that position taken by Floyd may very well be Floyd's desire to avoid criminal prosecution for fraud relating to the Fairness Fund.

I'm not sure that there ever was a clear admission by Floyd that he doped in that TdF and I'm not aware of any statements made by Floyd about pre-TdF doping (or non-doping) that were made with intent to get donors to give to the Fairness Fund.

If the prosecutor doesn't have a clear admission by Floyd that he lied to get people to contribute to the Fairness Fund, then the prosecutor is going to need proof that Floyd lied to get people to contribute to the fund. No prosecutor, State or Federal, has shown any inclination to get that proof. And the statute of limitations ticks on . . ..

The Fairness Fund Fraud is a game Floyd has won.

Floyd admitted to blood transfusions in the 2006 Tour. He also told ESPN he'll pay every cent back to those who donated.

But ya think those dopes who donated big money would take a civil suit against Floyd wouldn't ya? The thing about Floyd is no one wants to sue him...... strange that.....

 

[MarkvW]

Floyd admitted to blood transfusions in the 2006 Tour. He also told ESPN he'll pay every cent back to those who donated.

But ya think those dopes who donated big money would take a civil suit against Floyd wouldn't ya? The thing about Floyd is no one wants to sue him...... strange that.....

It would be hilarious if somebody sued Floyd for Fairness Fund Fraud, got a judgment, then executed a writ of attachment upon Floyd's qui tam lawsuit against Wiesel, Armstrong, Tailwind, et al. Otherwise, Floyd's pretty much judgment-proof--unless his next book is a bestseller!

 

[thehog]

It would be hilarious if somebody sued Floyd for Fairness Fund Fraud, got a judgment, then executed a writ of attachment upon Floyd's qui tam lawsuit against Wiesel, Armstrong, Tailwind, et al. Otherwise, Floyd's pretty much judgment-proof--unless his next book is a bestseller!

He is the man who knew too much......

I'd just hand each juror a copy of Vanity Fair with the Lance comeback interview. That will keep them laughing for days.

 

[Anonymous]

last nights tour chat interview with floyd, and then joe papp
http://tourchats.com/2011/11/tourchats-weekly-show-16/#more-371

 

[Ferminal]

Floyd was more or less useless, but Joe said some interesting enough things.

 

[Granville57]

We seem to have heard very little (if anything at all recently) from David "Tiger" Williams.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006

Considering that Floyd was recently living at D.W.'s residence (and may still be, I'm not sure) in Connecticut, and that Floyd has been—what I would consider to be—dangerously quiet as of late, and that David Williams has a very contentious past with Armstrong, and by all accounts is probably not someone you'd want to play hardball against—I have to wonder what his involvement is, or has been, since the Reasoned Decision.

I have always assumed that David Williams was one of the driving forces behind Floyd's Qui Tam case. He has the smarts, money, likely connections and know-how to orchestrate such a maneuver while staying comfortably in the background.

Anyone? (Ummm, that means you, RR)

Mr. Landis sent emails to cycling officials alleging doping on the Postal team. Mr. Landis says Mr. Williams's support was one of the main reasons he did so. The accusations went public, sparking the federal probe.

 

[Race Radio]

We seem to have heard very little (if anything at all recently) from David "Tiger" Williams.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006

Considering that Floyd was recently living at D.W.'s residence (and may still be, I'm not sure) in Connecticut, and that Floyd has been—what I would consider to be—dangerously quiet as of late, and that David Williams has a very contentious past with Armstrong, and by all accounts is probably not someone you'd want to play hardball against—I have to wonder what his involvement is, or has been, since the Reasoned Decision.

I have always assumed that David Williams was one of the driving forces behind Floyd's Qui Tam case. He has the smarts, money, likely connections and know-how to orchestrate such a maneuver while staying comfortably in the background.

Anyone? (Ummm, that means you, RR)

Tiger is certainly not a guy to Fork with. He likes to win. He was one of a few that advised on the Qui Tam. I think Floyd is still living there as his address appears on the filings. I talked to him a few weeks ago he was skiing in Vermont.

While Floyd may take advice from a few people he is his own man, and a very smart man at that. Lance's biggest mistake was to underestimate Floyd.

 

[Granville57]

We could be talking about this for years folks......years

I haven't got that much time!



I wonder how many characters Twitter will allow by then?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

We seem to have heard very little (if anything at all recently) from David "Tiger" Williams.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704457604576011490820993006

Considering that Floyd was recently living at D.W.'s residence (and may still be, I'm not sure) in Connecticut, and that Floyd has been—what I would consider to be—dangerously quiet as of late, and that David Williams has a very contentious past with Armstrong, and by all accounts is probably not someone you'd want to play hardball against—I have to wonder what his involvement is, or has been, since the Reasoned Decision.

I have always assumed that David Williams was one of the driving forces behind Floyd's Qui Tam case. He has the smarts, money, likely connections and know-how to orchestrate such a maneuver while staying comfortably in the background.

Anyone? (Ummm, that means you, RR)

Here is a good rundown on why Floyd is quiet:

As long as a case is under seal, whistleblowers may not tell anyone they have filed a case or discuss the case with anyone except their lawyers and the government. Talking publicly would break the seal, which risks being dismissed from the case. A dismissed whistleblower is unable to get a reward even if the government continues to pursue the allegations and collects funds.

 

[Race Radio]

Here is a good rundown on why Floyd is quiet:

Yup. I don't talk to Floyd much these days but when I did he made it very clear the Qui Tam case was off limits. I do not even ask.

 

[Granville57]

Thank you. Both.

 

[DirtyWorks]

We could be talking about this for years folks......years

Yes!! I'm all for endless legal bills in this case. I would be very interested to see if Wonderboy eventually turns on Wiesel.

Lance, we all know you are a fighter. Take the fight to Thom!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes!! I'm all for endless legal bills in this case. I would be very interested to see if Wonderboy eventually turns on Wiesel.

Lance, we all know you are a fighter. Take the fight to Thom!

This will make your day (if not year) as LA already has in the suit filed last November:

The questions came up again this month in court documents quoting Armstrong, the chief target of the suit, as saying he believed "'Mr. Weisel was aware of doping by the USPS Team (the U.S. Postal Service team headed by Armstrong) and in professional cycling in general."

 

[Race Radio]

This will make your day (if not year) as LA already has in the suit filed last November:

As I understand it these statements came in another case, Acceptance Insurance, and not the Qui Tam case. They were able to pull them and use them in the Qui Tam case in an effort to pull Thom into the case.

So Floyd was smeared as a "Rat".....what does that make Lance?

 

[D-Queued]

Tiger is certainly not a guy to Fork with. He likes to win. He was one of a few that advised on the Qui Tam. I think Floyd is still living there as his address appears on the filings. I talked to him a few weeks ago he was skiing in Vermont.

While Floyd may take advice from a few people he is his own man, and a very smart man at that. Lance's biggest mistake was to underestimate Floyd.

That's how I remember him...

David James "Dave, Tiger" Williams (born February 3, 1954) is a former professional ice hockey player who played in the National Hockey League (NHL) from the 1974–75 NHL season to the 1987–88 NHL season. He (still!!) is the NHL's career leader in penalty minutes.

Two guys with the same name and nickname?

Bizarre world.

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

Here is a good rundown on why Floyd is quiet:

I think the USPS case is no longer under seal because the feds have filed their complaint, and there have motions filed and decided. I think Floyd is silent because his lawyer is telling him to be silent (and he listens to his lawyer, unlike others).

 

[Race Radio]

I think the USPS case is no longer under seal because the feds have filed their complaint, and there have motions filed and decided. I think Floyd is silent because his lawyer is telling him to be silent (and he listens to his lawyer, unlike others).

I don't think that matters. Even if I can go pull the filings none of the folks are allowed to talk about it. Floyd will not discuss it with anyone.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Yes!! I'm all for endless legal bills in this case. I would be very interested to see if Wonderboy eventually turns on Wiesel.

Lance, we all know you are a fighter. Take the fight to Thom!

lol…a 'fighter'
that's what my takeaway was from the Armstrong Lie..
but he used it as an excuse to dump on everyone…

as if it were an endearing quality
#@ssh0le