Official "be nice" Lance Armstrong thread

[fulcrum]

Astana should have been 1-2-3 on the podium but the gifted "pistolero" is a loose cannon and selfish.

Here is the BIG LIE rearing its ugly head again. Jeez, it won't go away...

It is not true Astana would have had a podium 1-2-3 if it weren't for Contador's "wild pistolero attacks".

Andy Schleck beat Lance fair and square. Contador had nothing to do with that. And you cannot fit AC, AK and LA in the same podium if Schleck is on the 2nd step.

The irony of it is that Lance got his 3rd place thanks to Alberto dropping Kloden (which was a brilliant move, but that's a different discussion).

 

[boalio]

Here is the BIG LIE rearing its ugly head again. Jeez, it won't go away...

It is not true Astana would have had a podium 1-2-3 if it weren't for Contador's "wild pistolero attacks".

Andy Schleck beat Lance fair and square. Contador had nothing to do with that. And you cannot fit AC, AK and LA in the same podium if Schleck is on the 2nd step.

The irony of it is that Lance got his 3rd place thanks to Alberto dropping Kloden (which was a brilliant move, but that's a different discussion).

It's frustrating. No one really seems to grasp this. Well, the blinded don't anyway.

 

[padyakpinoy]

Here is the BIG LIE rearing its ugly head again. Jeez, it won't go away...

It is not true Astana would have had a podium 1-2-3 if it weren't for Contador's "wild pistolero attacks".

Andy Schleck beat Lance fair and square. Contador had nothing to do with that. And you cannot fit AC, AK and LA in the same podium if Schleck is on the 2nd step.

The irony of it is that Lance got his 3rd place thanks to Alberto dropping Kloden (which was a brilliant move, but that's a different discussion).

Situation: The GC before the stage was AC, LA +1:37, BW +1:46, AK +2:17, AS + 2:26.

AS, AK, AC and FS were in front ahead only +1:37 to LA, BW and others. If AC did not attack, LA would then drop BW later on (like he did the stage before) and latch onto the front group. At this point is is unlikely that SB (Saxo Bank, or the Schleck Brothers) would attack the 3 Astana riders. Therefore, they would just ride together and possibly all finish with the same time.

So who do you think would be 1-2-3?

 

[fulcrum]

It's frustrating. No one really seems to grasp this. Well, the blinded don't anyway.

They hear this "drivel" on Versus and they all run around repeating it like chicken without a head. THINK, damn it. That's what you have a brain for!

 

[richwagmn]

If AC did not attack, LA would then drop BW later on (like he did the stage before) and latch onto the front group.

That's a big assumption.

 

[ggusta]

Here is the BIG LIE rearing its ugly head again. Jeez, it won't go away...

It is not true Astana would have had a podium 1-2-3 if it weren't for Contador's "wild pistolero attacks".

Andy Schleck beat Lance fair and square. Contador had nothing to do with that. And you cannot fit AC, AK and LA in the same podium if Schleck is on the 2nd step.

The irony of it is that Lance got his 3rd place thanks to Alberto dropping Kloden (which was a brilliant move, but that's a different discussion).

Sorry Dr M, I am back. But we can hash out my post later. I think there was a lot of context missing and I regret being offensive. Should have taken more time to think before posting. Truly. Life goes on.

OK, that's out of the way.

Is there anyone that thinks Kloden could have podium'ed (is that a real word?)

I just can't fathom it. Given the competition in the mountains, Astana was fortunate to get 2 on the podium but I would have liked 3. (Sorry, is this the wrong thread for a serious question? Is ANY thread the wrong place for a serious question?)

 

[fulcrum]

If AC did not attack, LA would then drop BW later on (like he did the stage before) and latch onto the front group.

So why didn't he? AC's attack didn't change the lead groups race situation very much. Give or take 5 seconds. If Lance had what it took to latch onto Andy's group (and the virgin Mary danced a Tango, and Urs Freuler were the new Polka dot winner in the TdF) he would have done it regardless.

The fact is that he actually finished 2:18 behind. He didn't even come close. So stop dreaming fan boy.

Other than that you guys are right. If both Kloden and Lance would have gotten into a breakaway in the last stage to Paris and after working together put in 43 minutes to the peloton, yes, then it would have been a 1-2-3 and Lance would have won the 8th tour! But of course, Contador spoiled this with his sneak attack on km zero. I saw him, with a glass of champagne in his hand. That had not been approved by JB.

 

[elapid]

Racing is racing. They don't always finish the way they're either meant to or the way you want them to. All the what ifs in the world are not going to change the final result. We can also analyze this to our heart's content, and some of us obviously have in this and other threads, but we have a unique view of the race as a whole and the riders do not. They make the decisions on the road about what feels best at the time. This may not work out, but it sometimes does. The way I see it, Contador was a deserving winner and Andy Schleck and Armstrong were deserving podium finishers.

 

[Publicus]

Sorry Dr M, I am back. But we can hash out my post later. I think there was a lot of context missing and I regret being offensive. Should have taken more time to think before posting. Truly. Life goes on.

OK, that's out of the way.

Is there anyone that thinks Kloden could have podium'ed (is that a real word?)

I just can't fathom it. Given the competition in the mountains, Astana was fortunate to get 2 on the podium but I would have liked 3. (Sorry, is this the wrong thread for a serious question? Is ANY thread the wrong place for a serious question?)

I can't either. He was putting in great work to assist Lance on most of the critical mountain stages, never really riding for himself.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Go over to the general forum and find out in the "Is it safe in here thread". The other thread was shut down on the suggestion of Amsterhammer because he does not want the "hateboys" as he calls them to be able to express an opinion.

Totally untrue, complete and utter bullsh!t. Go and read the truth, not this fabrication of Bro's paranoia.

 

[padyakpinoy]

HAHAHAHAHAH!

So why didn't he? AC's attack didn't change the lead groups race situation very much. Give or take 5 seconds. If Lance had what it took to latch onto Andy's group (and the virgin Mary danced a Tango, and Urs Freuler were the new Polka dot winner in the TdF) he would have done it regardless.

The fact is that he actually finished 2:18 behind. He didn't even come close. So stop dreaming fan boy.

Why didn't he? Are you even following it? Hello? He did drop BW by about a minute, didn't he? But it's too late because SB got motivated having dropped AK and LA.

The point is, it would not have been 2 minutes if AC worked together with LA and AK against SB.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Armstrong's results in this TdF were remarkable considering his age, fractured collarbone and time off during retirement. However, IMO, making the Astana infighting public, his twittering, announcing Team Radioshack when he did, and his immaturity in his response to Contador's valid comments during the post-Tour press conference has detracted from his achievements this year. If he had shut his mouth and stopped twittering, then there would be a few more people on this forum being complimentary rather than rightly antagonistic.

Totally agree. But his behavior isn't enough to turn me into an extreme hater, like some.

 

[fulcrum]

Why didn't he? Are you even following it? Hello? He did drop BW by about a minute, didn't he? But it's too late because SB got motivated having dropped AK and LA.

The point is, it would not have been 2 minutes if AC worked together with LA and AK against SB.

1- He did drop BW by about a minute, didn't he?

Yes, and then he proceeded to close the gap with Nibali. Which he was unable to do. So what the hell does AC's attack have to do with any of it?

2- But it's too late because SB got motivated...

It was not too late. Lance was too weak. And that's what happens on the race, you get beat by better riders, and Andy was better than Lance. Whether AK got dropped or not has nothing to do with motivating the Schleck brothers, they were already motivated and doing all the pulling in front. They had opened the gap and they had the strength to keep it.

3- The point is, it would not have been 2 minutes if AC worked together with LA and AK against SB.

Are you seriously suggesting that AC should have dropped from the front group and waited for Armstrong so they could all together work in closing the gap? You make me wonder why I waste my time arguing a point like that.

 

[ggusta]

Totally untrue, complete and utter bullsh!t. Go and read the truth, not this fabrication of Bro's paranoia.

I thought I shut that thread down. Go look. It's my big forum faux pas, and Bro is RUINING it !!

Truth be told, when i got back from my ride I went to delete my final post...too late ... locked !!... there my shame will live for all eternity.

 

[ggusta]

the other Lance thread had dropped to a new low which was kind of an amazing given the way the thread had operated! So I think that was the basis for shutting it down.

Does it matter what a man does, so long as he does it well? Ok...well, maybe...

 

[pmcg76]

1- He did drop BW by about a minute, didn't he?

Yes, and then he proceeded to close the gap with Nibali. Which he was unable to do. So what the hell does AC's attack have to do with any of it?

2- But it's too late because SB got motivated...

It was not too late. Lance was too weak. And that what happens on the race, you get beat by better riders, and Andy was better than Lance. Whether AK got dropped or not has nothing to do with motivating the Schleck brothers, they were already motivated and doing all the pulling in front. They had opened the gap and they had the strength to keep it.

3- The point is, it would not have been 2 minutes if AC worked together with LA and AK against SB.

Are you seriously suggesting that AC should have dropped from the front group and waited for Armstrong so they could all together work in closing the gap? You make me wonder why I waste my time arguing a point like that.

Fulcrum, I dont bother arguing with posts like this, its incredible, if,if,if...its like people are seriously asking you to suspend whatever you have learned from watching or participating in cycling(not just the Tour) for 20/30 years. Schleck wrapped up second on that stage and it had nothing to do with Contador attacking.

 

[131313]

Lance is a loser.

He announced his return to cycling and behaved the worst possible way. From the very beginning he knew he wanted to ride the tour with J. Bruyneel and Astana. Since he knew this was going to create problems and upset the team make and balance, he started by saying he was going to race the Giro.

Then after people got used to that idea, he said he might race the tour. When people in Astana, namely Alberto Contador, got uneasy about that and tried to leave, both JB and Lance made up this stories about how Alberto would be the team leader etc etc.

Then when the Tour started, they changed their tune once again, saying that the "road would decide who the strongest rider was". From the beginning, Lance took effective control of Astana, even though he was not even a payed employee. While leveraging his personal friendship with Bruyneel to the professional detriment of Contador, and also leveraging the economic opportunities he is able to offer as the boss in a new team, he isolated Contador in the team. He made public comments against him. He practice phsycological warfare against his own teammate. He pulled every dirty trick in the book to distract Alberto. He made all sorts of announcement regarding his new team once he knew Alberto was making the headlines thanks to his talking on the road. Lance together with Bruyneel, set a "team strategy" that was counterproductive to Alberto's strengths and capabilities.

When all of the above failed, Lance truly showed his colors by his behavior at the podium, post race party etc. It's time for the world to know the real Armstrong.

well, your time line is a little off. He announced he was going to return to cycling while Contador was in the midst of winning the Vuelta! The phychological warefare started there. Fast forward to his Paris Nice comments about Contador 'having a lot to learn', then add in about 4 times the number of snarky comments. You barely scratched the surface.

And, of course, 'let the road decide', but put a leash (or a noose?) around Contador...then evisicerate him through t w at ter (while making all sorts of facial gesticulations and saying 'oh, I better not comment on that....despite the fact that he'll be commenting on it from his phone 3 minutes later).

bike racing is full of narcissistic, devious morons--so to set yourself apart among them really takes some doing. Chapeau, Lance Armstrong!

Was that nice enough?

p.s. is 'W a nk er' really a bad term? I think something must be lost in my american translation

 

[Amsterhammer]

I thought I shut that thread down. Go look. It's my big forum faux pas, and Bro is RUINING it !!

Truth be told, when i got back from my ride I went to delete my final post...too late ... locked !!... there my shame will live for all eternity.

I've been out all evening too and have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[ggusta]

well, your time line is a little off. He announced he was going to return to cycling while Contador was in the midst of winning the Vuelta! The phychological warefare started there. Fast forward to his Paris Nice comments about Contador 'having a lot to learn', then add in about 4 times the number of snarky comments. You barely scratched the surface.

And, of course, 'let the road decide', but put a leash (or a noose?) around Contador...then evsicerate him through ****ter (while making all sorts of facial gesticulations and saying 'oh, I better not comment on that....despite the fact that he'll be commenting on it from his phone 3 minutes later).

bike racing is full of narcissistic, devious ****ers--so to set yourself apart among them really takes some doing. Chapeau, Lance Armstrong!

Was that nice enough?

Can't speak to the time line specifically, but, yup, that sounds about as accurately as you can portray it in this thread without shutting it down. (Which is my job, by the way.)

 

[Anonymous]

well, your time line is a little off. He announced he was going to return to cycling while Contador was in the midst of winning the Vuelta! The phychological warefare started there. Fast forward to his Paris Nice comments about Contador 'having a lot to learn', then add in about 4 times the number of snarky comments. You barely scratched the surface.

And, of course, 'let the road decide', but put a leash (or a noose?) around Contador...then evisicerate him through t w at ter (while making all sorts of facial gesticulations and saying 'oh, I better not comment on that....despite the fact that he'll be commenting on it from his phone 3 minutes later).

bike racing is full of narcissistic, devious morons--so to set yourself apart among them really takes some doing. Chapeau, Lance Armstrong!

Was that nice enough?

p.s. is 'W a nk er' really a bad term? I think something must be lost in my american translation

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[powerste]

LA brought back the excitement in cycling. Half a million fans at the Ventoux is incredible.

If your primary sources of TdF race coverage are Versus and VeloNews I can see how you might believe this. But your claim that cycling (the TdF specifically in the example you selected) required LA's return to bring back the excitement or get 1/2 million onto Mont Ventoux simply doesn't hold water. To wit:

Cycling is incredibly popular in Europe, and has been for nearly a century - with or without LA
Mont Ventoux is one of the classic climbs in the TdF and has played a pivotal role in Tours for sixty years. Fans are going to stack its slopes deep, especially when the penultimate stage finishes at its summit - with or without LA
The TdF is the biggest sporting event in the world - with or without LA (yes, it was still the biggest sporting event in the world in 2006, 2007, and 2008)

The problem is that Lance is one story (albeit an interesting one) and he's not content unless he's the #1 story. Cycling has always been, and will hopefully always be, much bigger than him (or AC, or Indurain, or even Merckx Sr. for that matter).

 

[ggusta]

If your primary sources of TdF race coverage are Versus and VeloNews I can see how you might believe this.

It would be nice if there was another channel for English speaking cycling fans to get access in the US. Versus has completely taken leave of its senses. I don't know why. (Well I am not allowed to opine why.) Other than the tdf coverage ,even on versus, is delayed and too edited.

 

[DavidT]

Situation: The GC before the stage was AC, LA +1:37, BW +1:46, AK +2:17, AS + 2:26.

AS, AK, AC and FS were in front ahead only +1:37 to LA, BW and others. If AC did not attack, LA would then drop BW later on (like he did the stage before) and latch onto the front group. At this point is is unlikely that SB (Saxo Bank, or the Schleck Brothers) would attack the 3 Astana riders. Therefore, they would just ride together and possibly all finish with the same time.

So who do you think would be 1-2-3?

Let's play some more hypotheticals.
What if Armstrong hadn't been dragged aroung the TTT by 3 demonstrably superior time trialers (AC, LL, AK - see results of Monaco and Annecy), and instead of gaining 20 secs on Wiggins he lost 20 secs to Wiggins, then he's not on the podium.

 

[Shotstopper]

Let's play some more hypotheticals.
What if Armstrong hadn't been dragged aroung the TTT by 3 demonstrably superior time trialers (AC, LL, AK - see results of Monaco and Annecy), and instead of gaining 20 secs on Wiggins he lost 20 secs to Wiggins, then he's not on the podium.

You can't "hypothetically" change one variable and expect all the other occurrances to play out exactly the same as they actually did. If you change one outcome it will create a cascade of changes downstream in time. Armstrong, for example, might have attacked Wiggins more often to gain time on him on Ventoux.

 

[racerralph]

Wow, when I saw the title of this thread, I thought it would be filled with posts from people such as Wheel, Bagster, and Belokki. Much to my surprise, it is filled with the real story of Carnal Germ Snot. I have to say that I am very, VERY proud.....<I'm breaking up a bit, sorry>......just....just so.......well.......you guys are the best, THE BEST!

Hey, you are so right!! I thought the same thing. And now I'm laughing harder than I have for the last 3 weeks. I love the way you guys are SOOOOO Nice!