Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[Page Mill Masochist]

Dave -- great letter. I remember it. I can't imagine Bill Bowerman going along with Nike's endorsement of cheating.

 

[thehog]

Dave -- great letter. I remember it. I can't imagine Bill Bowerman going along with Nike's endorsement of cheating.

At last the news agencies are making the connection between those dreadful Nike commercials and doping.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/more-s...nike-commercials/story-fndukor0-1226494138076

Watch as disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong strongly denies doping in a series of Nike commercials

 

[purcell]

The one that still gets to me, is all the Lance lovers who are all over the newspaper sites proclaiming that "Lance is a true American Hero" ....

How many of these people do you think are capable of thinking that through?

A true American hero is a lying, cheating, bullying fraud? Do you suppose that is what they actually perceive a "true American hero" to be??

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Well, Floyd's not yapping his big mouth, and that's a good sign because he must think he has something to lose.

Who is going to be there to hear anything he's yapping about? Remember, as we've been told recently no one even knows how to find Landis. Just like a tree falling in the woods.

(Cue up visual imagery of Paddy and the Heinmeister sitting at UCI headquarters. Heiny looks to the right, then cranes his neck around to the left, and says to Paddy "Tell the court we tried to serve papers but couldn't find him.")

 

[TheEnoculator]

Why do you people care so much if Nike sticks up for Armstrong? It was to be expected and I wasn't the least bit surprised. Armstrong still has drawing power and Nike, being a for-profit corporation, is not going to give that up easily.

Nike has no corporate morality. If they did, they wouldn't be producing products in the Chinese sweatshops.

 

[trompe le monde]

So with the rug pulled out from Lance and his cycling reputation pretty much so in ragged and torn tatters, what exactly can he hang his hat on? I mean now, looking back on his, ahem, 'legacy', possibly the only thing left of Lance the man is that he is/was a professional a55hole.

The CBC this morning had an interview with D1ck Pound. When asked the question of what to make of Lance's Philanthropic side, he simply cut to the chase and reminded people that all of that simply would not have been possible had he not been the cheating and lying son of a b1tch that he was/is....though those weren't his exact words. Implicit to that, and these are my own thoughts, is when you get down to it, there never really was any hope to the Livestrong ethos, just hope dumped in between parenthesis chased by a sordid asterisk.

I await what those at the UCI will do once the exhaustive USADA report makes it into their hands. If they still manage to uphold his titles after all this, then really the UCI is more 1984 than Orwell's novel ever was.

 

[manafana]

Hope Horner goes down with him too one of few american riders who wouldnt speak out, what an idiot who wont admit his dirty past.

 

[purcell]

Hope Horner goes down with him too one of few american riders who wouldnt speak out, what an idiot who wont admit his dirty past.

Yeah, i was looking at this today, re-reading the affidavits and thinking - there's one name that just keeps not showing up ....

 

[thehog]

Yeah, i was looking at this today, re-reading the affidavits and thinking - there's one name that just keeps not showing up ....

And he had the gall to chase down Hincapie on the final stage of the Tour.

What a tool. Total sellout.

 

[Tinman]

there's one name that just keeps not showing up ....

Rider 15 in the affidavits.

 

[thehog]

In light of USADA’s report Nieuwsblad reports Pévenage now compares his methods "petty compared to the gangsters surrounding Armstrong". In addition Pévenage believes the real change came about when Johan Bruyneel arrived.

"It surprised me how far the team of Armstrong went. It was also strange that they could use EPO and continue working while we were all strictly controlled. Everything changed with the arrival of Bruyneel.

"I had a really difficult time when Ullrich and I were pulled from the peloton," Pévenage added. "If you see that the others just continue, you ask sometimes why you are at home on the couch.

"The fate of Bruyneel is now up to the UCI. I wonder how long he can continue to deny. I would be really surprised if he still has a future in racing."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pevenage-shocked-by-details-of-usada-report

 

[Maxiton]

Well, Lance's divorce from cycling is almost final.

Criminal charges against Lance related to doping? Itsnotgonnahappen.

Qui Tam? Well, Floyd's not yapping his big mouth, and that's a good sign because he must think he has something to lose.

SCA? I hope they sue Lance. I want to see how Lance performs when he is asked to affirm or deny each and every tiny little fact in the USADA report, under oath. THAT would be priceless!

Sally Jenkins' "I was betrayed by Lance" article? It's inevitable. I'm hoping it's so good it makes me cry.

One thing I can be sure of: The filthy and corrupt world of Pro Cycling is never gonna change. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss . . .

I've seen this comment from you more than once. If you really believe it's true, what are you doing here? Surely there is some sport where your concerns would not be a waste of time.

 

[purcell]

Here's another one that surprises me - I only remember seeing Axel Mer kx's name once in all the material and that was in Betsy's affidavit.

As close as he and Armstrong are, and as bent as he is ... ?

 

[jackwolf]

Well, Lance's divorce from cycling is almost final.

Criminal charges against Lance related to doping? Itsnotgonnahappen.

Some agree with you, but quite a few also disagree:

'Some experts, however, believe that the investigation may be reopened as widespread outrage over the allegations in the Usada report creates political pressure to explain why it was dropped in the first place.

"The US attorney's office is always subject to political pressures. The criticism now will hit home and there is a good chance that the government will indict and charge Armstrong," said Peter Keane, a law professor at the Golden Gate University.

Mike Straubel, from Valparaiso University, agreed. "It is more of a political question than a legal one, but I would say there is a 70% chance of the case being reopened," he said.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/11/lance-armstrong-tour-de-france

 

[Tinman]

I've seen this comment from you more than once. If you really believe it's true, what are you doing here? Surely there is some sport where your concerns would not be a waste of time.

Endorsed. I just don't get it either. One thing being a cynic, quite another to repeatedly keep posting the cynicism as if to try and get others on board doing nothing either. Or deliberately obstructing those who try to move things forward. Why???

Day of the Triffids / Dawn of the Dead material.

 

[Tinman]

Mark why not contribute positively. You have a legal background and contribution to make. Or do you???

What would be the avenues to get the LA case to go criminal?

What's your take on the jurisdiction angle in the USADA file (page 159 onwards)?

What are the legal contributions to consider to support the Kimmage case?

If you were a real fan of cycling you'd get off your **** and contribute. Sorry but I've had it with your attitude here. I've been funny, polite and suggestive long enough. Time to call you for what you are. All I can conclude is that you are a small time legal guy on team Herman working to retain Pat & Hein. Prove yourself otherwise.

 

[Maxiton]

Lance Armstrong report: IOC looks into revoking his Olympic medal


http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-lance-armstrong-ioc-20121011,0,2331822.story

Frankly I'd like to see the IOC revoke cycling altogether. I mean, these clowns have damaged our sport so much and for so long, it's become completely marginalized.

Go to most multi-sport websites and look for cycling. Good luck finding it. You'll find the usual suspects - soccer, motorsport, etc; you'll even find obscure sports like lawnbowling or shuffleboard; but oftentimes the one thing missing is cycling.

Just the other day I wanted to add a cycling page to a news aggregator on my phone called "Pulse" - what's the one sport not listed? You guessed it - the sport Lance Armstrong has supposedly made so huge. It's maddening.

So anyway, it's time to give cycling a wakeup call. I hope it gets kicked out of the Olympics and loses all its commercial sponsorships.

 

[Tinman]

Frankly I'd like to see the IOC revoke cycling altogether.

I think you are right. IOC needs to set an example. Just tracing through the list of medals since 1980. Not looking good. Has now become a total joke, no longer for those on the inside and in the know, but for everyone who dares to "just google" a few search terms...

 

[purcell]

Lance Armstrong report: IOC looks into revoking his Olympic medal


http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-lance-armstrong-ioc-20121011,0,2331822.story

Frankly I'd like to see the IOC revoke cycling altogether. I mean, these clowns have damaged our sport so much and for so long, it's become completely marginalized.

Go to most multi-sport websites and look for cycling. Good luck finding it. You'll find the usual suspects - soccer, motorsport, etc; you'll even find obscure sports like lawnbowling or shuffleboard; but oftentimes the one thing missing is cycling.

Just the other day I wanted to add a cycling page to a news aggregator on my phone called "Pulse" - what's the one sport not listed? You guessed it - the sport Lance Armstrong has supposedly made so huge. It's maddening.

So anyway, it's time to give cycling a wakeup call. I hope it gets kicked out of the Olympics and loses all its commercial sponsorships.

I agree with this. Absent the Olympics there is no money to fund the corruption. The greed will drive those like McQuaid and Verbruggen elsewhere? Maybe the sport would have a chance to recreate itself in a positive way.

 

[Bannockburn]

What's your take on the jurisdiction angle in the USADA file (page 159 onwards)?

I'm not Mark, but I can tell you that was included so as to pre-emptively frame the debate should the UCI appeal on jurisdictional grounds -- which it still very well may do.

After all, there's no reason to have spent the effort justifying the obviousness of one's jurisdiction unless there was reason to believe it was going to be called into question...

 

[Tinman]

I'm not Mark, but I can tell you that was included so as to pre-emptively frame the debate should the UCI appeal on jurisdictional grounds -- which it still very well may do.

I think you miss my point. I am trying to coax our heckler senior poster on this forum to make a positive contribution using his presumed skill set, for the betterment of cycling.

I also have an opinion on jurisdiction by the way. And I got the pre-empt bit. But I wouldn't have a clue how UCI would fight the jurisdiction/discovery bit, and that I would like to know.

 

[MarkvW]

I've seen this comment from you more than once. If you really believe it's true, what are you doing here? Surely there is some sport where your concerns would not be a waste of time.

I dig your username.

(And I insanely love to ride my bike.)

 

[MarkvW]

Yeah, i was looking at this today, re-reading the affidavits and thinking - there's one name that just keeps not showing up ....

Yeah, Whorner has a special place in all of this. Lance oughta buy him a bike shop for him when he retires . . .

 

[MarkvW]

Some agree with you, but quite a few also disagree:

'Some experts, however, believe that the investigation may be reopened as widespread outrage over the allegations in the Usada report creates political pressure to explain why it was dropped in the first place.

"The US attorney's office is always subject to political pressures. The criticism now will hit home and there is a good chance that the government will indict and charge Armstrong," said Peter Keane, a law professor at the Golden Gate University.

Mike Straubel, from Valparaiso University, agreed. "It is more of a political question than a legal one, but I would say there is a 70% chance of the case being reopened," he said.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/11/lance-armstrong-tour-de-france

Yeah, somebody oughta ask those "experts" to outline precisely just what doping offense the feds could still charge Lance Armstrong with, along with the facts that would support such a charge. I guarantee you're never going to see that . . .

 

[Maxiton]

I dig your username.

(And I insanely love to ride my bike.)

Touché. My username is a testament to the corruption of the sport, past and present; but by no means does it obviate the possibility of change, of a less corrupt future for the sport. Things come to a head. We see that now.

The sport changes for the better or it withers and dies (and lots of money is lost). I'm guessing that people who care about the sport will take action to reinvigorate it - or whatever remains of it, once this debacle is done.

And, anyway, lots of people who love riding their bikes know zip about the sport and don't care to learn. So your loving to ride, nice as that is, doesn't explain, at all, your abiding interest in a professional sport you seem to feel is beyond redemption.