Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[Maxiton]

More details on the Christian Prudhomme / ASO reaction.

"What we want is that there is no winner," Prudhomme said.

"We cannot be indifferent to what Usada has unmasked this week, it's a damning picture that's been drawn."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19927300

 

[Jack Ruby]

 

[MarkvW]

Touché. My username is a testament to the corruption of the sport, past and present; but by no means does it obviate the possibility of change, of a less corrupt future for the sport. Things come to a head. We see that now.

The sport changes for the better or it withers and dies (and lots of money is lost). I'm guessing that people who care about the sport will take action to reinvigorate it - or whatever remains of it, once this debacle is done.

And, anyway, lots of people who love riding their bikes know zip about the sport and don't care to learn. So your loving to ride, nice as that is, doesn't explain, at all, your abiding interest in a professional sport you seem to feel is beyond redemption.

I've thought about your question. I enjoy watching the races. I also enjoy the never-ending soap opera of it all. Where else, but cycling, would a team manager be accused of poisoning one of his top riders? The way Lance hounded Betsy . . . .. The way McBruggen is hounding Mr. Kimmage . . .. You can't make that stuff up!

Pro cycling is a joke, and I enjoy the joke. Anybody who takes the "sport" (professional cycling) seriously is bound to be disappointed.

Does anybody here really think that the UCI is going to materially change anything after the most recent scandalous allegations? The fertile soil that spawned Lance is just as fertile today. Marginal gains, baby!

 

[Maxiton]

I've thought about your question. I enjoy watching the races. I also enjoy the never-ending soap opera of it all. Where else, but cycling, would a team manager be accused of poisoning one of his top riders? The way Lance hounded Betsy . . . .. The way McBruggen is hounding Mr. Kimmage . . .. You can't make that stuff up!

Pro cycling is a joke, and I enjoy the joke. Anybody who takes the "sport" (professional cycling) seriously is bound to be disappointed.

Does anybody here really think that the UCI is going to materially change anything after the most recent scandalous allegations? The fertile soil that spawned Lance is just as fertile today. Marginal gains, baby!

I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I agree you can't make this stuff up, and the (melo)drama is entertaining.

I think your answer leaves off being thoughtful, though, when you get to the UCI. Pro cycling will change, most likely for the better, with or without a much improved UCI. Or else it will die completely. Stasis is not an option.

 

[pkreed71]

Not angry, just disppointed, really...

I think Lance Armstrong's fall is that massive earthquake that cycling has been building up to for 15 years. After the dust has settled, we'll still get tremors and aftershocks (Brunyeel being banned, other riders admitting to doping, etc.) You can't put the problems of cycling soley on Armstrong's shoulders but he certainly is responsible for a lot of them. He doped because they did and then they doped because he was out-doping them.

I hope the UCI does what is right and (a) simply vacates the winner of those Tours and (b) allows amnesty for riders willing to come forward and admit their past doping mistakes.

Being a testicular cancer survivor myself, I can't count out the work Livestrong has done to promote cancer awareness. For that, I will always be grateful.

But for cheating, Lance gets a big F*** YOU.

 

[Maxiton]

I think Lance Armstrong's fall is that massive earthquake that cycling has been building up to for 15 years. After the dust has settled, we'll still get tremors and aftershocks (Brunyeel being banned, other riders admitting to doping, etc.) You can't put the problems of cycling soley on Armstrong's shoulders but he certainly is responsible for a lot of them. He doped because they did and then they doped because he was out-doping them.

I hope the UCI does what is right and (a) simply vacates the winner of those Tours and (b) allows amnesty for riders willing to come forward and admit their past doping mistakes.

Being a testicular cancer survivor myself, I can't count out the work Livestrong has done to promote cancer awareness. For that, I will always be grateful.

But for cheating, Lance gets a big F*** YOU.

What is this nonsense about "cancer awareness"? I was aware of cancer before Livestrong, how about you?

 

[MarkvW]

I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I agree you can't make this stuff up, and the (melo)drama is entertaining.

I think your answer leaves off being thoughtful, though, when you get to the UCI. Pro cycling will change, most likely for the better, with or without a much improved UCI. Or else it will die completely. Stasis is not an option.

I disagree with you there. Cycling won't die completely; it will contract. And when it contracts, it will become even more insular. That's how the McBruggen power structure will survive.

Competition is the only hope for change--either from a union or from a competing league. I don't see that happening, though.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Mark why not contribute positively. You have a legal background and contribution to make. Or do you???

What would be the avenues to get the LA case to go criminal?

What's your take on the jurisdiction angle in the USADA file (page 159 onwards)?

What are the legal contributions to consider to support the Kimmage case?

If you were a real fan of cycling you'd get off your **** and contribute. Sorry but I've had it with your attitude here. I've been funny, polite and suggestive long enough. Time to call you for what you are. All I can conclude is that you are a small time legal guy on team Herman working to retain Pat & Hein. Prove yourself otherwise.

Nice work Troll.

why would you worry about who or what Mark's volkswagon works for? Someone could be calling you out for coming on here in august and somehow knowing everything about all the posters etc. rustbucket.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

What's up with creepy Lance texting stuff to Levi's wife?

"Run, don't walk" - "Are you in CA" knowing Levi was in Europe.

What's he up to?

Hey Cracklins the answer is in my signature .....

 

[fatandfast]

I feel Lance was framed so the Mitt Romney dog on the roof story would die down

 

[TheEnoculator]

LA tried to treat it like any other day: as if nothing happened. Someone should remind this a$$hole that he owes his fans some answers.

http://m.thestar.com/sports/article...ks-to-routine-day-after-damning-doping-report

I find Samu's response most troubling. He's got that fanboy response that I only expect from the public.

 

[Love the Scenery]

ASO says it will vacate titles if UCI upholds USADA decision. No winner during Lance years.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/nati...c819c1ab1a46d382375a88ff981124-173893421.html

I am very pleased to read this. If only Floyd had waited a few years to get busted, his title would be vacated too instead of given to Pereiro. I do hope all the Hamilton, Landis, Hincapie et al. stage wins are also vacated and declared as having no winners. Remember Hamilton's 142 km breakaway to win in Bayonne in 2003? That's still on the books, yeah? And second place went to ... Zabel

 

[Pazuzu]

next move UCI

Anyone think the UCI will reject the findings of USADA's Reasoned Decision?

Any objections they put forward would have to rely on technicalities such as jurisdiction or statue of limitations. This would ld severly undermine their recent assertions that they take doping offenses seriously and haven't abetted Armstrong's doping.

As for the threat of Armstrong spilling the beans on Verbruggen & McQuaid's complicity if they don't appeal USADAs finding, I don't see this happening as it would require Armstrong to admit to doping, which he'll never do.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

Nike response

I wrote to Nike to express my displeasure at their decision to continue supporting the Supreme Nozzle. The response is below. What a crock.

Hi,

Thank you for writing in and for expressing your feelings towards Lance Armstrong and Nike's relationship.

We are saddened that Lance Armstrong may no longer be able to participate in certain competitions and his titles appear to be impacted. Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance and the Lance Armstrong Foundation, a foundation that Lance created to serve cancer survivors.

We always welcome constructive comments from consumers and appreciate you sharing. Your comments are important to us and we have passed it on to the appropriate departments within Nike.

Again, thank you for contacting us and have a great day.

Sincerely,

Miguel
Nike

 

[D-Queued]

I wrote to Nike to express my displeasure at their decision to continue supporting the Supreme Nozzle. The response is below. What a crock.

Hi,

Thank you for writing in and for expressing your feelings towards Lance Armstrong and Nike's relationship.

We are saddened that Lance Armstrong may no longer be able to participate in certain competitions and his titles appear to be impacted. Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance and the Lance Armstrong Foundation, a foundation that Lance created to serve cancer survivors.

We always welcome constructive comments from consumers and appreciate you sharing. Your comments are important to us and we have passed it on to the appropriate departments within Nike.

Again, thank you for contacting us and have a great day.

Sincerely,

Miguel
Nike

Utterly, completely dissgusting.

They are saddened. ... ok, I am sorry Nike are saddened and believe in miracles and unicorns, a flat earth and the end of the world according to the Mayan calendar...

But, you Fausto deserve some level of congratulations.

It appears that you received a 'custom' and 'enhanced' response, and one that was actually signed by a person.

Here is what I received on Aug 27:

Dear <> –

Thank you for contacting Nike Inc. Investor Relations.

Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. As such, Nike plans to continue to support Lance and the Lance Armstrong Foundation, a foundation that Lance created to serve cancer survivors.

We greatly appreciate and value the varying feedback of our consumers and shareholders. All feedback is taken into consideration when making not only business decisions but the sometimes tougher decisions concerning members of the NIKE family.

Kind regards,

Nike Inc., Investor Relations
http://investors.nikeinc.com

All this needed was a footnote indicating 'Form Letter #1'

Dave.

 

[Merckx index]

Fellow Nike haters, don't despair yet:

Corporate sponsors rarely pull out when the spotlight on controversy is white hot, Borochoff said. When the issue calms down, companies start to re-evaluate their commitment.

"Usually in a big crisis, companies hold back. They know from a marketing, (public relations) point, it would not look good," Borochoff said.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-12-06-44-08

 

[D-Queued]

Fellow Nike haters, don't despair yet:

Corporate sponsors rarely pull out when the spotlight on controversy is white hot, Borochoff said. When the issue calms down, companies start to re-evaluate their commitment.

"Usually in a big crisis, companies hold back. They know from a marketing, (public relations) point, it would not look good," Borochoff said.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-12-06-44-08

Then Borochoff is an idiot.

Johnson and Johnson's handling of the Tylenol tampering crisis is considered by public relations experts to be one of the best in the history of public relations.
...
Phase one of Johnson & Johnson's public relations campaign was executed immediately
...
This was unusual for a large corporation facing a crisis. In many other similar cases, companies had put themselves first, and ended up doing more damage to their reputations than if they had immediately taken responsibility...

http://www.aerobiologicalengineering.com/wxk116/TylenolMurders/crisis.html

Dave.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Anyone want to post bets that Nike drops LA like a rock in January?

American election, Christmas, whatever else occupies the minds of retards (I'm sure there's some American football or hockey in there) for a while, and then **** - he's gone.

Not a hard equation. The guy's digging his own grave by trying trying to blow it off.

Stupid is as stupid does...

 

[blackcat]

I feel Lance was framed so the Mitt Romney dog on the roof story would die down

http://www.dogsagainstromney.com/

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

http://www.dogsagainstromney.com/

Anyone putting a dog in a sweater deserves a 2 year ban, minimum.

Second offence? Public stoning.

The shame those dogs undergo...

 

[thehog]

Gifford on Livestrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2012/oct/12/livestrong-lance-armstrong-chairman

 

[jackwolf]

Gifford on Livestrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2012/oct/12/livestrong-lance-armstrong-chairman

It seems almost every other publication's comments section gets attacked by Armstrong's bots, often massively, but somehow the Guardian appears to have a Kriptonite shield. How do they do it?

 

[armstrong]

I don't follow cycling/Armstrong that closely, but this is a fascinating article from S.I. (did anyone post this yet?)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ampionships/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a5

"It amounted to a kind of bait and switch. Lance Armstrong defibrillated the triathlon universe earlier this year by announcing his intention to race in the Ironman World Championships in Kona, coming up this Saturday, Oct. 13. Interest in the sport spiked, as did the passions of a pair of Australians who've dominated this event for the last five years.

Craig (Crowie) Alexander won this tropical sufferfest in 2011, '09 and '08; Chris (Macca) McCormack, his tart-tongued nemesis, crossed the line first in 2010 and '07. Both men had spent enough time baking on the lava fields of Kona, punching through whipping crosswinds on the 112-mile bike leg -- an ordeal bookended by the 2.4-mile (often roughwater) swim and, oh yeah, a marathon. Independently, the Aussies had decided to they were finished with this race for this lifetime.

Then Lance got in the game.

"I was thinking, well hold on, champ, you may be the greatest cyclist ever, but this is my house," says McCormack. "I saw it as a defense of my sport. Because if this man came along and won this race, and I wasn't involved, and beat guys that I had wars with, then it makes what I've done look Mickey Mouse. So I put my hand up and said, 'If you're racing, mate, I'm racing.'"

As a SPORTS fan, this would've been an incredible story/competition. Ironman apparently has had a Federer/Nadal-like rivalry for the last 5 years, then both men retired. But Armstrong enters the competition, and they both come back BECAUSE of him. Who would've won? Awesome. As a sports fan, I would've loved to see how this race would've turned out.

Imagine how strong Armstrong would be on the bike in a competition like this. I imagine he'd be OK running too - the swimming would probably be his weakest third (?).

 

[Race Radio]

There are quotes from various athletes in the dining hall at the USOC training centre at Colorado Springs. On Friday it was painted over, removing him from US Olympic history.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't follow cycling/Armstrong that closely, but this is a fascinating article from S.I. (did anyone post this yet?)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ampionships/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a5

"It amounted to a kind of bait and switch. Lance Armstrong defibrillated the triathlon universe earlier this year by announcing his intention to race in the Ironman World Championships in Kona, coming up this Saturday, Oct. 13. Interest in the sport spiked, as did the passions of a pair of Australians who've dominated this event for the last five years.

Craig (Crowie) Alexander won this tropical sufferfest in 2011, '09 and '08; Chris (Macca) McCormack, his tart-tongued nemesis, crossed the line first in 2010 and '07. Both men had spent enough time baking on the lava fields of Kona, punching through whipping crosswinds on the 112-mile bike leg -- an ordeal bookended by the 2.4-mile (often roughwater) swim and, oh yeah, a marathon. Independently, the Aussies had decided to they were finished with this race for this lifetime.

Then Lance got in the game.

"I was thinking, well hold on, champ, you may be the greatest cyclist ever, but this is my house," says McCormack. "I saw it as a defense of my sport. Because if this man came along and won this race, and I wasn't involved, and beat guys that I had wars with, then it makes what I've done look Mickey Mouse. So I put my hand up and said, 'If you're racing, mate, I'm racing.'"

As a SPORTS fan, this would've been an incredible story/competition. Ironman apparently has had a Federer/Nadal-like rivalry for the last 5 years, then both men retired. But Armstrong enters the competition, and they both come back BECAUSE of him. Who would've won? Awesome. As a sports fan, I would've loved to see how this race would've turned out.

Imagine how strong Armstrong would be on the bike in a competition like this. I imagine he'd be OK running too - the swimming would probably be his weakest third (?).

If Macca or Crowie were on even half as much dope as Armstrong then it would be no contest. They would be doing 2:25 marathons at the end.