Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[mattghg]

Does this require a separate thread?

 

[ebandit]

yes!

Does this require a separate thread?

yes! poor lance has so few threads these days

Mark L

 

[darwin553]

Show me someone else who leveled the playing field in moves anything like these and I'll listen to you, Armstrong. Until then, shut up.

I'm prepared to listen to him but whatever he says I will take it with a grain of salt.

 

[FitSsikS]

Permaban seems a little harsh without any warnings or suspensions beforehand. Take it easy, mods.

Ya. Wait, what?

 

[Aapjes]

what moncoutie you're talking about? this one?

1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h
2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h
3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan Vaughters 22.70 km/h
4. 2004: 56:54 Oscar Sevilla 22.67 km/h
5. 1999: 57:33 Alexander Vinokourov 22.42 km/h
6. 1994: 57:34 Marco Pantani 22.41 km/h
7. 1999: 57:34 Wladimir Belli 22.41 km/h
8. 2004: 57:39 Juan Miguel Mercado 22.38 km/h
9. 1999: 57:42 Joseba Beloki 22.36 km/h
10. 2004: 57:49 Lance Armstrong 22.31 km/h
11. 1999: 57:52 Lance Armstrong 22.29 km/h
12. 2004: 58:14 Inigo Landaluze 22.15 km/h
13. 1999: 58:15 Kevin Livingston 22.15 km/h
14. 1999: 58:31 David Moncoutie 22.05 km/h
15. 2004: 58:35 José Enrique Gutierrez 22.02 km/h
16. 2009: 58:45 Andy Schleck 21.96 km/h
17. 2009: 58:45 Alberto Contador 21.96 km/h
18. 2009: 58:48 Lance Armstrong 21.94 km/h
19. 2009: 58:50 Fränk Schleck 21.93 km/h
20. 1999: 58:51 Unai Osa 21.92 km/h

Apparently that list comes from here:
http://climbing-records.blogspot.nl/2013/07/mont-ventoux-2013-two-new-entries-in.html

That 14th place is from a MTT in the Dauphine, which is incomparable to the 2009 results (when the climb was part of a regular stage). Of course, the simple fact that all 2009 results are way low on the list should already have tipped you off. Moncoutie undoubtedly peaked for the Dauphine, since he didn't ride the Tour and was considered a GC favorite. Riders like Lance would have taken it easy. So in the end we have:
- A very easy stage (21 km climb only)
- Which is only the 3rd stage in a race (recovery not much of a factor yet)
- Ridden casually by top riders who peak later on during the Tour
- Ridden very hard by Moncoutie who had stomach problems earlier and soft pedaled stage 1 & 2 (he was last in stage 1 & bottom 10 in stage 2). Stomach problems nixed Moncoutie's chances for a good GC placing, so he was in a fairly unique position: a GC contender being forced to hunt for stage victories during stage 3 by an 'injury' that doesn't hurt performance at all when healed.

I think that these are the perfect conditions for a very talented clean rider to rank highly on such a list. Of course, this doesn't mean that he was clean, but it's far from the smoking gun that you apparently believe it is.

PS. Fun fact: half of the top 14 on that list are from the same Dauphine stage. Despite ending up as 14th on the overall list, Moncoutie actually was only 7th during that stage. Take out the 2 MTT dauphine stages from that list and you lose the entire top-15, except for 1 person: Pantani. He was the only on who could climb at top-5 MTT speeds during a regular stage.

 

[jens_attacks]

if moncoutie rode that MTT blood vector clean i will walk naked on the champs
elysees. 22 kmph on ventoux, good luck with that. just 4 minutes or something faster than lucho.



it's my blog by the way.

jean-eudes demaret already said years ago that all the cofidis in the vuelta received injections because of the heat and the toughness of the route so the myth that david was never touched by a needle is just that, a myth

 

[thehog]

DB: Did you have a relationship with the UCI that meant that regardless of how poor their testing was that you were never going to get caught?

LA: We weren’t going to get caught because we were conservative.

New narrative:

Our doping was conservative.
Just regular garden variety doping.
No collusion with UCI
Hard work wins it.
I defended Landis
Tried to call Hamilton, LeMond.

He has lost the plot, officially, but clear he is readying himself for the deposition.

He has to keep his new story straight. Which is, low key doping, no collusion.

 

[Benotti69]

Who is Armstrong trying to con, a future jury, with his "i was only one of the many dopers in the peloton"?

Amazing how he forgets that this is the internet age and plenty out there haven't forgot how he treated Bassons, Simeoni, Walsh, Kimmage, Mike Anderson, Betsy and Frankie and others.

Armstrong better 'run, dont walk'.....

 

[Benotti69]

Who is Armstrong trying to con, a future jury, with his "i was only one of the many dopers in the peloton"?

Amazing how he forgets that this is the internet age and plenty out there haven't forgot how he treated Bassons, Simeoni, Walsh, Kimmage, Mike Anderson, LeMond, Betsy and Frankie and others.

Armstrong better 'run, dont walk'.....

 

[the sceptic]

Lance is such a pathetic figure. If he would just step out of his fantasy world and be honest and maybe show some genuine remorse I would have some respect for him.

Interesting that McQuaid was asking about AICAR 4 years ago. I wonder what he thinks now.

 

[Benotti69]

Lance is such a pathetic figure. If he would just step out of his fantasy world and be honest and maybe show some genuine remorse I would have some respect for him.

Interesting that McQuaid was asking about AICAR 4 years ago. I wonder what he thinks now.

His Posse aint gonna let Armstrong out of his fantasy world till they have milked him dry.

 

[thehog]

Lance is such a pathetic figure. If he would just step out of his fantasy world and be honest and maybe show some genuine remorse I would have some respect for him.

Interesting that McQuaid was asking about AICAR 4 years ago. I wonder what he thinks now.

I love it now McQuaid goes to the biggest doper in the peloton to get updates on AICAR!

What do you think Lance? Do I need to be concerned by AICAR? Or are these guys just sticking to EPO and transfusions?

 

[pastronef]

Lance Armstrong ‏@lancearmstrong 37m

@Ty_Hamilton so you have or have not received my 5 or 6 calls/emails/texts attempting to do just this?

Tyler Hamilton ‏@Ty_Hamilton 16h

@lancearmstrong Weak attempt cowboy. Let's make plans.

 

[mattghg]

Hey @lancearmstrong - If you're sincere about wanting to talk, jump on your jet and fly to Missoula, Montana. Your posse is not invited.

..........

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

DB: What would the Lance Armstrong of 1993 think of you now?

LA: I don’t know man. The Lance of now or of twelve months ago because they’re very different? I don’t know. I think I was a good bike racer who had some personal flaws and who made some big mistakes, who came across a situation…. I walked into this. There were steps along the way that got me where I am today. My actions, my reactions, my interactions and finally my comeback. No comeback, no problem.

So, LA 'walked into' this situation?

He created the situation.

Idiot...

 

[DirtyWorks]

DB: What would the Lance Armstrong of
So, LA 'walked into' this situation?

He created the situation.

Idiot...

I'm willing to cut Wonderboy some slack on this detail as it was Carmichael's "take the injection or leave the team" that came before the stuff that followed. If the first experience of high-level bike racing is getting a needle stuck in then perhaps that becomes the way of life.

Do we know if he was doping wearing the man-kini in triathlons before Carmichael? I don't. But we know for sure he was doping under Carmichael.

Would he have been any less of a legend in his own mind and social predator? Probably not.

################
The fact the President of the cycling federation knew the up-to-the-minute doping choices of his sport's athletes should tell everyone that the federation was encouraging the doping.

Technically, the bio-passport could work. Obviously the UCI doesn't want the doping to stop. It can't be made any clearer than Armstrong's statements regarding discussing AICAR with McQuaid.

 

[Benotti69]

DB: What would the Lance Armstrong of 1993 think of you now?

LA: I don’t know man. The Lance of now or of twelve months ago because they’re very different? I don’t know. I think I was a good bike racer who had some personal flaws and who made some big mistakes, who came across a situation…. I walked into this. There were steps along the way that got me where I am today. My actions, my reactions, my interactions and finally my comeback. No comeback, no problem.

So, LA 'walked into' this situation?

He created the situation.

Idiot...

No need to worry, he will always 'walk into situations' he can't help himself.

 

[Berzin]

I sat in for the first NYC viewing of "The Armstrong Lie". There is a lot left out given the fact that it was over two hours long, but it wasn't meant for the hard-core cycling crowd.

Aside from his oft-mentioned sociopathic tendencies, one thing that is not mentioned is he does out Dr. Ferrari as being a part of the USPS doping program.

He does it so matter-of-factly that it seems to have been missed by those who have seen the documentary already. I for one haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

Another thing that was missed was George Hincapie stating in again a veiled fashion that he only came to dope while at Postal, when that could not be further from the truth.

But that's what liars, do, they lie.

Speaking of films, anyone know whatever happened to "The Levi Effect" and the IMAX film about Tyler Hamilton's 2004 Tour de France? Did they make it to DVD or can they be downloaded somewhere?

 

[AcademyCC]

1. He now realizes the cancer shield was a bad idea

2. Hes not saying anything remotely new or groundbreaking.

3. He still thinks he got shafted.

4. Its all a pile of pish from one of the biggest frauds on the planet

 

[86TDFWinner]

I sat in for the first NYC viewing of "The Armstrong Lie". There is a lot left out given the fact that it was over two hours long, but it wasn't meant for the hard-core cycling crowd.

Aside from his oft-mentioned sociopathic tendencies, one thing that is not mentioned is he does out Dr. Ferrari as being a part of the USPS doping program.

He does it so matter-of-factly that it seems to have been missed by those who have seen the documentary already. I for one haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

Another thing that was missed was George Hincapie stating in again a veiled fashion that he only came to dope while at Postal, when that could not be further from the truth.

But that's what liars, do, they lie.

Speaking of films, anyone know whatever happened to "The Levi Effect" and the IMAX film about Tyler Hamilton's 2004 Tour de France? Did they make it to DVD or can they be downloaded somewhere?

Yep. Good post, thanks for the info. I'll save $7 not watching it.

 

[El Oso]

Speaking of films, anyone know whatever happened to "The Levi Effect" and the IMAX film about Tyler Hamilton's 2004 Tour de France? Did they make it to DVD or can they be downloaded somewhere?

They scratched Tyler out after the Olympic/Vuelta positive, and "subbed in" Baden Cooke and Jimmie Casper. http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/features/?id=2006/wired_to_win Some of the scenes were clearly shot later as part of a dramatized re-enactment, e.g. the scene of Casper withdrawing contrasts the same scene shown in Hell on Wheels. Other than the IMAX shots of real racing it wasn't really that great. The best parts probably were the shots of Tyler racing on a broken collarbone that ended on the editing room floor.

 

[D-Queued]

1. He now realizes the cancer shield was a bad idea

2. Hes not saying anything remotely new or groundbreaking.

3. He still thinks he got shafted.

4. Its all a pile of pish from one of the biggest frauds on the planet

I thought pish puddled, and didn't pile up. Or, were you thinking more of a shipyard?

Dave.

 

[AcademyCC]

I thought pish puddled, and didn't pile up. Or, were you thinking more of a shipyard?

Dave.

ha ha ha . yes

 

[Tyre Byter]

Speaking of films, anyone know whatever happened to "The Levi Effect" and the IMAX film about Tyler Hamilton's 2004 Tour de France? Did they make it to DVD or can they be downloaded somewhere?

I appreciate the review on the Gibney film and think I'll save the money too.

'The Levi Effect' has been shown on UniversalSports MANY times and is basically a promo for his Gran Fondo. Not worth tracking down a TiVO copy unless you want to watch hobby farm living with Odessa.

 

[Carols]

He does it so matter-of-factly that it seems to have been missed by those who have seen the documentary already. I for one haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

Interesting.

Speaking of films, anyone know whatever happened to "The Levi Effect" and the IMAX film about Tyler Hamilton's 2004 Tour de France? Did they make it to DVD or can they be downloaded somewhere?

The Levi Effect has been shown on Universal Sports multiple times. I recorded it and have only made 1/2 way through. Dreadfully boring....no mention of doping yet.