Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[sniper]

In Wheelmen, it says he got offered the chance to come forward where he would have been able to keep 5 Tours and get a 6 month ban. Bock spoke to Mark Levinstein(one of Lance's lawyers) to tell him they were giving Lance an opportunity to speak to them. Herman then set up a conference call with Lance's lawyers and Bock. Armstrong's lawyers were still denying he used PEDs even up to then. They were threatening USADA with lawsuits during it.

If you can get access to Wheelmen, read from page 277-280, it describes this whole scenario.

He had his opportunity and blew it.

Tanx gooner.
Admittedly that sounds quite conclusive, provided the authors of wheelmen got the info from primary sources.

 

[sniper]

Well if Lance Armstrong says something it must be true.

Ur words noft mine

what history of lies does USADA/Tygart have?

by vouching for the truthfulnes of under oath affidavits and testsimonies of all the ex-posties including liars leipheimer and recently hesjedal usada look biassed and with an agenda.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Ur words noft mine

by vouching for the truthfulnes of under oath affidavits and testsimonies of all the ex-posties including liars leipheimer and recently hesjedal usada look biassed and with an agenda.

Agree. I don't think LA has a leg to stand on in terms of his new media Tour de Victime, but USADA giving 6 month off-season bans to the others makes them look myopic.

I feel they all should have received 2 year bans, regardless of their testimony. This is bullsh*t, and it certainly shouldn't be a model for T&R. This is more like Half-truth & No-contrition.

 

[thehog]

Agree. I don't think LA has a leg to stand on in terms of his new media Tour de Victime, but USADA giving 6 month off-season bans to the others makes them look myopic.

I feel they all should have received 2 year bans, regardless of their testimony. This is bullsh*t, and it certainly shouldn't be a model for T&R. This is more like Half-truth & No-contrition.

One must also note that he refused arbitration.

He could have defensed himself, told his story and requested a 6 month sentence.

He did not. He shirked that and pretends that he was offered nothing.

Lance, has a lot to learn.

 

[86TDFWinner]

In Wheelmen, it says he got offered the chance to come forward where he would have been able to keep 5 Tours and get a 6 month ban. Bock spoke to Mark Levinstein(one of Lance's lawyers) to tell him they were giving Lance an opportunity to speak to them. Herman then set up a conference call with Lance's lawyers and Bock. Armstrong's lawyers were still denying he used PEDs even up to then. They were threatening USADA with lawsuits during it.

If you can get access to Wheelmen, read from page 277-280, it describes this whole scenario.

He had his opportunity and blew it.

This. All he's been doing is playing the "Woe is me/pity party" martyrer card. He had his chances, and chose to thumb his nose @ USADA and others. When it finally was revealed he doped, he didn't like the terms set forth, the same terms he laughed at and tried suing USADA over.

One must also note that he refused arbitration.

He could have defensed himself, told his story and requested a 6 month sentence.

He did not. He shirked that and pretends that he was offered nothing.

Lance, has a lot to learn.

LOL, this too.

 

[sniper]

...

...

personally, my main objection is about the way USADA have vouched for the truthfulness of those affidavits.
parts of the garmin affidavits seemed orchestrated viz redacted from above, and for USADA to vouch for those affidavits is odd.
My feeling is that there are some straightforward lies in those affidavits, but USADA seem content with the fact that they disclose the bad stuff about Lance, and don't seem interested in the post-2006 truth.

for instance from USADA's statement on hesjedal:
http://www.usada.org/media/statement-hesjedal103013

Statement From USADA CEO, Travis T. Tygart, Regarding Ryder Hesjedal

"As has been publicly reported, we can confirm that USADA, along with the Canadian Center for Ethics in Sport (CCES), interviewed cyclist, Ryder Hesjedal, earlier this year as part of our ongoing investigation into the sport of cycling. Athletes like him, and others, who have voluntarily come in, taken accountability for their actions and have been fully truthful, are essential to securing a brighter future for the sport of cycling. As in all cases, where there is actionable evidence of doping within the statute of limitations, we have imposed discipline and announced sanctions. We continue our ongoing investigation into the sport of cycling, and have also been urging the UCI to take the decisive and transparent action it announced over a year ago to truly set the sport on a new foundation for the good of clean athletes. We are hopeful and confident that the new UCI leadership will fulfill its promise of conducting a full and independent process to finally put this sport on a new path toward integrity that protects the rights of clean athletes, and believe strongly the time for this is now."

usada shouldn't be saying that. I think they've made similar statements wrt the affidavits.

 

[DirtyWorks]

This. All he's been doing is playing the "Woe is me/pity party" martyrer card. He had his chances, and chose to thumb his nose @ USADA and others. When it finally was revealed he doped, he didn't like the terms set forth, the same terms he laughed at and tried suing USADA over.

A gentle reminder for the casual reader, BOTH the UCI (Hein at least) and USA Cycling (Wiesel, Johnson and Co.) tried and failed to shut down USADA's ban too. Both parties were Armstrong business partners.

Regarding the quality of the affadavits, a number of them are obviously strategic confessions. Fortunately for everyone, the truth takes a bit of a holiday in arbitration.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Looks like Wada's done w/Wonderboy as well:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/only-miracle-reopen-armstrong-case-says-fahey-135125973--spt.html

I especially liked this part from Fahey:

"Armstrong did what he did, we all know what that is. He did not co-operate, he did not defend the charges that USADA put out there last year and he was dealt with in a proper process and the recent decisions released by USADA were irrefutable.

"Now, does he wish to come and indicate to the world what he knows, not only about himself but about others? I don't know what's behind it."

 

[86TDFWinner]

A gentle reminder for the casual reader, BOTH the UCI (Hein at least) and USA Cycling (Wiesel, Johnson and Co.) tried and failed to shut down USADA's ban too. Both parties were Armstrong business partners.

Regarding the quality of the affadavits, a number of them are obviously strategic confessions. Fortunately for everyone, the truth takes a bit of a holiday in arbitration.

Good points as well.

 

[Benotti69]

Looks like Wada's done w/Wonderboy as well:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/only-miracle-reopen-armstrong-case-says-fahey-135125973--spt.html

Which is interesting, considering how he did not throw UCI or USAC under the bus.

 

[Bosco10]

In Wheelmen, it says he got offered the chance to come forward where he would have been able to keep 5 Tours and get a 6 month ban. Bock spoke to Mark Levinstein(one of Lance's lawyers) to tell him they were giving Lance an opportunity to speak to them. Herman then set up a conference call with Lance's lawyers and Bock. Armstrong's lawyers were still denying he used PEDs even up to then. They were threatening USADA with lawsuits during it.

If you can get access to Wheelmen, read from page 277-280, it describes this whole scenario.

He had his opportunity and blew it.

Hi gooner. I've read Wheelmen, and am familiar with what the authors described. My first impression: USADA told Levinstein about the "5 tours & 6 months" deal. However, upon reading again, it seems USADA had this deal in mind, but they didn't verbalize it to Lance's legal team. So I'm a bit confused as to what the authors were actually saying.

 

[42x16ss]

Which is interesting, considering how he did not throw UCI or USAC under the bus.

Possibly because he didn't, on top of playing silly b@ggers with USADA. Fahey basically says Armstrong would need to bring A LOT to the table before they'll even start taking him seriously.

I think that Fahey has been a little naive with the extent of LA's actions along with Pat, Hein, Weisel and co's and didn't realise just how rotten the sport is. Hopefully this is him putting a hard line into place. Remember Fahey's background is politics, not sports administration.

 

[papafrog]

I'll preface this by saying I still view LA as the winner of 7 Tours but I can't see how he can now say he should be punished in line with what other dopers got (ie. 6 month ban). To equate this to a criminal case, someone who "pleads" guilty always receives the promise of a lesser sentence. A criminal defendant who forces the State to go to trial and then gets convicted always gets a harsher sentence. You don't cooperate, you get a harsher punishment, it's as simple as that. Nice try though, LA. Better luck next lifetime.

 

[DirtyWorks]

..I think that Fahey has been a little naive with the extent of LA's actions along with Pat, Hein, Weisel and co's and didn't realise just how rotten the sport is. Hopefully this is him putting a hard line into place. Remember Fahey's background is politics, not sports administration.

Remember the Track and Field manager WADA banned who showed up in Nike's booth at the Olympics? A podium winner called him a "dear friend" during her post-medal ceremony interview. That's how much the IOC cares.

It would be interesting to see WADA try to ban the head of a sports federation and a national federation to whom they actually report. All parties absolutely deserve far worse though.

Also remember that it looks like Bach will try to weaken WADA.

 

[aphronesis]

Hi gooner. I've read Wheelmen, and am familiar with what the authors described. My first impression: USADA told Levinstein about the "5 tours & 6 months" deal. However, upon reading again, it seems USADA had this deal in mind, but they didn't verbalize it to Lance's legal team. So I'm a bit confused as to what the authors were actually saying.

I can reread in a instant (digital wonders) as needed but your second take was what was stated in the book by my recall. What their intentions or possibilities were (the USADA) are not the conditions reported in the Mexican standoff that seems to have taken place.

@Mark, when was that ideal of pro cycling operative in the US? did it start with 7/11 and Motorola? or before? funny i missed that as it (the ambitions of lowly us cycling) always seemed more or less beholden to the more cynical (and ground-level) european reality.

guess i'll go sip an herbal tea and see if i can conjure up the US epoch you're referring to.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Here is a list of suspensions:

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...bjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=Nzk5OTY&LangId=1

Christian Pfannberger is also banned for life.

Edit: And DiLuca should be joining Axelsson, Armstrong and Pfannberger soon.

Great list, six months for years of doping versus 2 years for clostebol

@Mark, when was that ideal of pro cycling operative in the US? did it start with 7/11 and Motorola? or before? funny i missed that as it (the ambitions of lowly us cycling) always seemed more or less beholden to the more cynical (and ground-level) european reality.

Maybe Les Earnest can shed a light:
http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/springer.htm

 

[aphronesis]

Great list, six months for years of doping versus 2 years for clostebol

Maybe Les Earnest can shed a light:
http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/springer.htm

you saying cycling wasn't pure? oops

 

[zingone]

personally, my main objection is about the way USADA have vouched for the truthfulness of those affidavits.
parts of the garmin affidavits seemed orchestrated viz redacted from above, and for USADA to vouch for those affidavits is odd.
My feeling is that there are some straightforward lies in those affidavits, but USADA seem content with the fact that they disclose the bad stuff about Lance, and don't seem interested in the post-2006 truth.

for instance from USADA's statement on hesjedal:
http://www.usada.org/media/statement-hesjedal103013usada shouldn't be saying that. I think they've made similar statements wrt the affidavits.

+1 - I think your comments are spot on.

 

[thehog]

Johannesburg • UCI President Brian Cookson says the cycling governing body has agreed with the World Anti-Doping Agency on an independent commission to look into the sport’s drug-stained past, and Lance Armstrong will be invited to take part.

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57123456-219/cookson-doping-anti-armstrong.html.csp

 

[Dazed and Confused]

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57123456-219/cookson-doping-anti-armstrong.html.csp

will the public (fans) be able to follow the process or will the whole thing be behind closed doors in a office in Switzerland?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/57123456-219/cookson-doping-anti-armstrong.html.csp

To what end? What the hell kind of 'independent commission' would want half-true info from LA? What could he give them, especially now that Pat's gone? I can't see him pulling a Flandis and burning it to the ground, LA still wants to compete, any corruption he would admit to at the UCI level would only solidify his lifetime ban since it would show his complicity in corrupting an Int'l body. WTF...

 

[thehog]

To what end? What the hell kind of 'independent commission' would want half-true info from LA? What could he give them, especially now that Pat's gone? I can't see him pulling a Flandis and burning it to the ground, LA still wants to compete, any corruption he would admit to at the UCI level would only solidify his lifetime ban since it would show his complicity in corrupting an Int'l body. WTF...

Yep this is more Lance's style.

Skip the arbitration and go straight to a meeting with the new boss.

Hopefully he's back racing by years end

 

[DirtyWorks]

Yep this is more Lance's style.

Skip the arbitration and go straight to a meeting with the new boss.

Hopefully he's back racing by years end

Now is a great time to remind everyone that Mike Plant's (USA) pre-election dossier certainly assisted Cookson.

The quid-pro-quo involved in UCI elections, somehow I think Thom Wiesel is involved in the UCI's decision to let Armstrong do a victory lap.

The only thing left is to see how Bach/IOC politics handles a reduction in Wonderboy's ban.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Even the IOC wants to get their jabs in:


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ioc-president-bach-strongly-backs-083211050--oly.html


here's something interesting:


http://news.yahoo.com/cycling-wada-agreement-doping-commission-180847359--spt.html

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/lance-armstrong-has-something-get-his-chest

long read, but funny