Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[MarkvW]

What I read is comments that amount to "It turns out Armstrong was very good anyway." kind of message and "haters" debunking that view.

Wonderboy has some kind of strong internal view of himself as "a champion." Being ignored/hated is equally bad.

Lance, we all know you are following along. Become "a champion" of reform and get Thom Wiesel and his assistant Steve Johnson at least banned from the sport. You know far more than some anonymous forum w@nker like me. And I realize that doesn't make any sense in your world view. But, it's the only way back to being "a champion." Fight Wonderboy! Fight!

I wasn't talking about "bad" in moral sense. I was talking about it in a monetary sense--In the sense that it impacts the Lance brand value. Myself, I would most enjoy seeing Lance Armstrong bankrupt.

I appreciate Lance's anger. He followed the unwritten rules of his sport (dope all you want, but don't get caught), he greased the UCI (like others before him have done, and others after him will do), and he expected his co-conspirators to keep their mouths shut. Who wouldn't be mad?

 

[mewmewmew13]

not what i meant to say. I was pointing merely at walsh.
HIS going on about lance, milking the story, the tweets, the movies, the talks, god knows what (is he selling t-shirts already?) is just highly annoying.
in here i think there is very productive discussion and info being presented and rightly so because the usps/lance story is intriguing and instructive on many levels.
but walsh, with the levels of hypocricy he's showing, imo, has lost all authority on the matter and would be wise to let it rest.

thnx I see your point now.
sorry if I missed ...

 

[Stingray34]

From my perspective which is, in my ever so humble opinion, correct....I venture to say people are sick of lance, sick of what he is doing and just want him to go away. Let him get drunk on his lanceritas in his own backyard without yapping BS to anyone who doesn't know the detail of the story willing to print what he has to say.

It is tiring and seemingly never ending. He is using people just as he tried to use me for the sole purpose of rehabilitating his image. People are sick of him. But what are we to do when he continues to attempt to rewrite history smearing people and outright lying - give him carte blanche?

When I'm attacked, I fight back. That esquire piece wasn't fact checked. The writer decided to believe the words of a pathological liar who couldn't get through the interview without drinking so much he started slurring his words.

So, in short, people are sick of the BS. Like Ger Gilroy from Off the Ball said to Emma, if people see she's all good with lance, then others will say what's the problem? Were he truly genuine, this would all be said and done and he wouldn't still be fighting and trying still to go after people who refuse to be a pawn in his game.

I wonder if you really know how important you are in bringing the Lance lie to light. I mean really know. With a personality and moral conscience like yours, Lance never really stood a chance of hoodwinking the entire world.

In a side note, my partner of 15 years is also of Balkan extraction, and I see many similarities between yourself and her. Funny, smart, ballsy, a moral streak a mile wide and a bit of a dark beauty.

I guess I can say I'm a fan of yours

P.S. Where can I get one of those BAAS caps?

 

[D-Queued]

Bump.



I've been dying to do that!!!

Going on two days without a post, in the middle of his most serious legal complications.

Dave.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

From my perspective which is, in my ever so humble opinion, correct....I venture to say people are sick of lance, sick of what he is doing and just want him to go away. Let him get drunk on his lanceritas in his own backyard without yapping BS to anyone who doesn't know the detail of the story willing to print what he has to say.

It is tiring and seemingly never ending. He is using people just as he tried to use me for the sole purpose of rehabilitating his image. People are sick of him. But what are we to do when he continues to attempt to rewrite history smearing people and outright lying - give him carte blanche?
A
When I'm attacked, I fight back. That esquire piece wasn't fact checked. The writer decided to believe the words of a pathological liar who couldn't get through the interview without drinking so much he started slurring his words.

So, in short, people are sick of the BS. Like Ger Gilroy from Off the Ball said to Emma, if people see she's all good with lance, then others will say what's the problem? Were he truly genuine, this would all be said and done and he wouldn't still be fighting and trying still to go after people who refuse to be a pawn in his game.

The Esquire article indeed was not "fact checked," but that was a premeditated decision, not an oversight. Writers do not write any piece of pap they wish, then show up at deadline and try to sell it to their editor. The editor will have approved well in advance. And in the case of so notorious a public figure as Pharmstrong, someone who already has been the subject of literally hundreds of interviews and personality pieces, it beggars belief that the editor might have given approval apart he already had been briefed in detail on the story's perspective, and its beginning, middle and end.

So the story might bear John H. Richardson's byline, but its raison d'être is Esquire Magazine's unabashed participation in Pharmstrong's image rehabilitation campaign.


The "people" who are sick of hearing of Lance by and large are the same lot who maintained that he was innocent, the ones who labeled the Tygart investigation a "witch hunt" ...right up until the day the Oprah interview aired. Those people are sick of hearing of him because they prefer to remember him as he once was, not as he now is.

Among those who already knew the truth, and those who had spent more than a decade trying to pull the wool off the eyes of the cycling public, I think the attitude is quite different. I think they want to hear MORE about Lance.

They want to hear he has lost the Qui Tam suit, and with it the equivalent of every farthing he stole from the sport of professional cycling from 1999 to 2005.

They want to hear he was indicted on the myriad crimes he committed en route to subverting an entire professional sport. Then they want to hear he was convicted on a fair measure of them.

Then they want to hear that Lance has agreed to turn state's evidence in return for a reduced prison sentence. They want to know from whose hands the illegal pharmaceuticals came into his possession. They want to know the names of the individuals who facilitated his international drug smuggling ring, and they want to know the institutions and individuals that assisted his money laundering.

They want to hear that he has given a detailed account of the participation of Hein Verbruggen, Fat Pat, Michelle Ferrari and Chris Carmichael (et Al) in his deception. Because then there will exist the possibility that the sport of professional cycling will make a serious effort to clean house.

Because if that does not come to pass, professional cycling will have missed the most important lesson from the last 15 seasons, and the UCI races all will continue to be won by the best doper who doesn't get caught.


And it would be Christmas come early to hear that Pharmstrong is reduced to living in a shotgun shack in the woods. And that a newly-enriched FLandis has bought Mellow Johnny's, is living on Lance's old sprawling Austin estate, drinking from Lance's impressive wine cellar, driving Lance's restored 1970 GTO and canoodling with Cheryl Crow.

Then Lance is free to fade into obscurity and won't be missed.

 

[Nicko.]

this. .

 

[Oldman]

I wasn't talking about "bad" in moral sense. I was talking about it in a monetary sense--In the sense that it impacts the Lance brand value. Myself, I would most enjoy seeing Lance Armstrong bankrupt.

I appreciate Lance's anger. He followed the unwritten rules of his sport (dope all you want, but don't get caught), he greased the UCI (like others before him have done, and others after him will do), and he expected his co-conspirators to keep their mouths shut. Who wouldn't be mad?[/QUOTE]

Any other professional Felon. Most crooks and scammers don't whine so much when they get caught. Those that went before didn't try to turn their ill-gotten stardom into as much Gold as Lance wanted to mine from the public. Being the Cancer Saint was too much.

 

[MarkvW]

If Lance Armstrong is a professional felon, then pro cycling is overloaded with professional felons. Lance needed pro cycling to turn into the monster he became, and pro cycling nurtured him the whole way.

Pro cycling is a circus, not a sport--for anybody who is paying attention.

 

[Scott SoCal]

If Lance Armstrong is a professional felon, then pro cycling is overloaded with professional felons. Lance needed pro cycling to turn into the monster he became, and pro cycling nurtured him the whole way.

Pro cycling is a circus, not a sport--for anybody who is paying attention.

Okay. Same could be said for track and field, boxing, MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, Football, Swimming.... You know, any/all professional sport and nearly all Olympic movement endurance sports. Hell, there's an open doping case in pro motocross.

In fact, I can't think of any sport that doesn't have a circus element to it.

 

[MarkvW]

Okay. Same could be said for track and field, boxing, MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, Football, Swimming.... You know, any/all professional sport and nearly all Olympic movement endurance sports. Hell, there's an open doping case in pro motocross.

In fact, I can't think of any sport that doesn't have a circus element to it.

Indeed. There are rumors that NFL games have purposely been thrown (à la Vino-Kolobdnev), and FIFA is fixed from top to bottom. And there have been commissioners as bad as McBruggen (Blatter comes to mind). But nothing brings the filth all together like pro cycling. This is a sport where a cheat (Merckx) is renowned by many as the greatest cyclist ever and a sport that spawned and nurtured a monster like Armstrong.

The UCI wants to write Armstrong off as an aberration, and I'm not having any if it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

The Esquire article indeed was not "fact checked," but that was a premeditated decision, not an oversight. Writers do not write any piece of pap they wish, then show up at deadline and try to sell it to their editor. The editor will have approved well in advance. And in the case of so notorious a public figure as Pharmstrong, someone who already has been the subject of literally hundreds of interviews and personality pieces, it beggars belief that the editor might have given approval apart he already had been briefed in detail on the story's perspective, and its beginning, middle and end.

So the story might bear John H. Richardson's byline, but its raison d'être is Esquire Magazine's unabashed participation in Pharmstrong's image rehabilitation campaign.


The "people" who are sick of hearing of Lance by and large are the same lot who maintained that he was innocent, the ones who labeled the Tygart investigation a "witch hunt" ...right up until the day the Oprah interview aired. Those people are sick of hearing of him because they prefer to remember him as he once was, not as he now is.

Among those who already knew the truth, and those who had spent more than a decade trying to pull the wool off the eyes of the cycling public, I think the attitude is quite different. I think they want to hear MORE about Lance.

They want to hear he has lost the Qui Tam suit, and with it the equivalent of every farthing he stole from the sport of professional cycling from 1999 to 2005.

They want to hear he was indicted on the myriad crimes he committed en route to subverting an entire professional sport. Then they want to hear he was convicted on a fair measure of them.

Then they want to hear that Lance has agreed to turn state's evidence in return for a reduced prison sentence. They want to know from whose hands the illegal pharmaceuticals came into his possession. They want to know the names of the individuals who facilitated his international drug smuggling ring, and they want to know the institutions and individuals that assisted his money laundering.

They want to hear that he has given a detailed account of the participation of Hein Verbruggen, Fat Pat, Michelle Ferrari and Chris Carmichael (et Al) in his deception. Because then there will exist the possibility that the sport of professional cycling will make a serious effort to clean house.

Because if that does not come to pass, professional cycling will have missed the most important lesson from the last 15 seasons, and the UCI races all will continue to be won by the best doper who doesn't get caught.


And it would be Christmas come early to hear that Pharmstrong is reduced to living in a shotgun shack in the woods. And that a newly-enriched FLandis has bought Mellow Johnny's, is living on Lance's old sprawling Austin estate, drinking from Lance's impressive wine cellar, driving Lance's restored 1970 GTO and canoodling with Cheryl Crow.

Then Lance is free to fade into obscurity and won't be missed.

HA!
I like your reply SS!
some great lines...
sadly I don't think Lance has it in him to try to help cycling...

 

[Oldman]

If Lance Armstrong is a professional felon, then pro cycling is overloaded with professional felons. Lance needed pro cycling to turn into the monster he became, and pro cycling nurtured him the whole way.

Pro cycling is a circus, not a sport--for anybody who is paying attention.

Pro cycling didn't make him into anything. If one thing is clear; his predisposition to cheating, bullying, bribery and possible charity fraud are things he was inclined to early in his life.
While other sports have issues as well only Lance wrapped himself in the Cancer Jesus shroud, then milked the Foundation for gas money. The closest example in the NFL was Tim Tebow, the Lord's QB. You saw what happened to him.

 

[Granville57]

In fact, I can't think of any sport that doesn't have a circus element to it.

Hey! Easy with blanket statements!

http://worldclown.com/clown-competition-rules/

Clown Competition Rules

Rules of Conduct

A. Failure to comply with the following rules will result in expulsion from the competition.
B. All clowns will conduct themselves in such a manner as to be a credit and an asset to quality clowning.
C. All clowns will totally abstain from the use of alcohol prior to and during competition or any time while in makeup and wardrobe. [No doping!]
D. All clowns will refrain from the use of tobacco while in makeup and wardrobe and in public view.
E. All clowns will refrain from any props or items that might offend a general audience or embarrass the World Clown Association.

 

[mewmewmew13]

^^^^instead Wonderboy not part of the 'World Clown Association' but a 'World Class Clown'

 

[Merckx index]

And it would be Christmas come early to hear that Pharmstrong is reduced to living in a shotgun shack in the woods. And that a newly-enriched FLandis has bought Mellow Johnny's, is living on Lance's old sprawling Austin estate, drinking from Lance's impressive wine cellar, driving Lance's restored 1970 GTO and canoodling with Cheryl Crow.

Because some cheaters deserve to be rewarded? That the only way the humiliation of LA will be complete is if some of his ill-gotten gains are given to someone who also participated in the fraud? Someone who actually took fraud into new territory never explored by LA, such as asking for public donations for his doping appeal costs, and violating confidential information from GL? Someone who even today seems more concerned that he got caught than that he doped?

I understand the way whistle blowing works, and I won't begrudge Floyd if he ends up getting rich on the qui tam. He played a critical role in bringing LA down, and if he hadn't filed the suit, very doubtful the Feds would have done anything. But I certainly wouldn't regard it as Christmas come early. It's hardly the perfect ending to a sad story. When a mobster is convicted based on the testimony of one of his former henchmen, it’s just doing whatever it takes, it’s not Christmas come early.

Clown Competition Rules

In the words of the not-forgotten Dr. Mas:

People need to know whether I, your President, Pat McQuaid, am a clown. Well, I am not a clown.

 

[MarkvW]

Pro cycling didn't make him into anything. If one thing is clear; his predisposition to cheating, bullying, bribery and possible charity fraud are things he was inclined to early in his life.
While other sports have issues as well only Lance wrapped himself in the Cancer Jesus shroud, then milked the Foundation for gas money. The closest example in the NFL was Tim Tebow, the Lord's QB. You saw what happened to him.

USAC selected and groomed him. And its methods were far less than ethical. Without that grooming, Lance would never have made the European peloton.

 

[Alpe73]

is if some of his ill-gotten gains are given to someone who also participated in the fraud?

Yeah, during that 'participating' time, that little ball thingy in Floyd's whistle was stuck.

When a mobster is convicted based on the testimony of one of his former henchmen, it’s just doing whatever it takes, it’s not Christmas come early.

And although you're glad the hit man got it done, you ain't inviting him over for Xmas dinner ... Thanksgiving, even.

 

[MonkeyFace]

Pro cycling didn't make him into anything. If one thing is clear; his predisposition to cheating, bullying, bribery and possible charity fraud are things he was inclined to early in his life.
While other sports have issues as well only Lance wrapped himself in the Cancer Jesus shroud, then milked the Foundation for gas money. The closest example in the NFL was Tim Tebow, the Lord's QB. You saw what happened to him.

I am no Tim Tebow fan but he would be playing QB irregardless of his jesus shroud if he could play QB. He was the number #1 selling jersey one season and that carries weight.

Any other thing Lance would have gone into likely would have ended the same way. He is ruthless but he is also dumb. Just like your moron friend who goes all-in on every other poker hand. He thinks he is hot **** getting everyone to fold for small pots until he bumps into someone willing to match him with a good hand. Lance would have been small time in any other venture because he can't assess risk and has a preoccupation with turning everything into a ****ing match.

 

[MarkvW]

I am no Tim Tebow fan but he would be playing QB irregardless of his jesus shroud if he could play QB. He was the number #1 selling jersey one season and that carries weight.

Any other thing Lance would have gone into likely would have ended the same way. He is ruthless but he is also dumb. Just like your moron friend who goes all-in on every other poker hand. He thinks he is hot **** getting everyone to fold for small pots until he bumps into someone willing to match him with a good hand. Lance would have been small time in any other venture because he can't assess risk and has a preoccupation with turning everything into a ****ing match.

That is a good analogy. Everything is war to the death. Works good until Stalingrad.

 

[thehog]

Big stage tomorrow. Should bump this thread

 

[sittingbison]

Big stage tomorrow. Should bump this thread

public dressing down time

keep trolling this thread and its you who will get bumped

cheers
bison

 

[Archibald]

People need to know whether I, your President, Pat McQuaid, am a clown. Well, I am not a clown.

sounds like Nixon - "I am not a crook"


Have to agree on the Floyd side of it. I really don't feel he should profit from this. Enough to ressurect himself for a decent living, perhaps - some compensation for the way he was treated and torn up by LA n Co. But, definately not be profitting in the way he may well do from this...

 

[Oldman]

I am no Tim Tebow fan but he would be playing QB irregardless of his jesus shroud if he could play QB. He was the number #1 selling jersey one season and that carries weight.

Any other thing Lance would have gone into likely would have ended the same way. He is ruthless but he is also dumb. Just like your moron friend who goes all-in on every other poker hand. He thinks he is hot **** getting everyone to fold for small pots until he bumps into someone willing to match him with a good hand. Lance would have been small time in any other venture because he can't assess risk and has a preoccupation with turning everything into a ****ing match.

I was baiting slightly on the Tebow thing but you got the gist of Lance's character analysis. He felt entitled to grab anything, possibly because of his upbringing....but some character seems ingrained.
As for Mark's assertion the USAC "groomed" him: he was among the willing to step up and take dope. Period. That character was imitated by Tyler, George, Christian, Levi and others. Some were less successful and still others showed character and refused. The riders that refused were left on the outside because the details of the LIE need to involve all that benefitted. Lance, Thom Weisel, Gorski all knew that because they were all cheaters in most phases of their professional life. Lance gravitated to it and lent authority to that attitude.
It is unfair to throw Tebow into that mix other than to shed light on the shallowness that some athletes will go to expand marketability. Tebow only had a limited act, so let's find another comparison for that.
Mark's wrong, though. Lance was a sociopath looking for a venue. Why else would he struggle to get back to Tri sports?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Lance was a sociopath looking for a venue. Why else would he struggle to get back to Tri sports?

Because the guy is a champion... of something. How many times does it have to be said? (Answer: N+1)

The Tri federation would likely be as accommodating as USAC and we know the media routine already. Money for everybody that matters! The integrity of the sport is not important.

Oh, the fight! The hours on the bike, in the water, and that gait with no analogue in running or triathlon. He would have been on his bike or in the pool or something. What would you be on? The couch.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Because some cheaters deserve to be rewarded?...

FLandis deserves to be rewarded because none of this would have happened, and Pharmstrong's reputation still would be unbesmirched, still the official winner of seven Tours de France, had Floyd not shattered pro cycling's omertà.

Which only came about as a consequence of Pharmstrong's utter lack of humanity, his failure in the first first part to exert his considerable muscle in Landis' defence (ignoring the possibility he might have been the cause of his troubles), and his failure in the second part for refusing to draw Floyd to his bosom and hire him, giving him a spot on a major team once he had served his suspension.

The irony is that Pharmstrong was not brought down by his cheating, but by his forsaking of friendship and camaraderie.


Hell hath no fury like a Floyd Landis scorned. If he emerges from this with a hundred million US dollars in the bank, I will mark every cent of it well-earned.