Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

Why is this not gaining any traction here?

Lance Armstrong being sued, company wants $500,000 returned

Fireman's Fund ain't SCA Promotions. Whole different league.

Because everyone it too busy smearing Frankie

 

[the sceptic]

Because everyone it too busy smearing Frankie

Frankie is smearing himself with that interview.

But maybe we should go back to smearing Lance instead. Perhaps you could dig up the latest topless photo?

 

[thehog]

Travis is amazing - as are USADA - love their consistency

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/29571601

Probably because Justin "believes".

 

[Race Radio]

Frankie is smearing himself with that interview.

Why do you keep ranting about things you have not read?

 

[the sceptic]

Probably because Justin "believes".

god made him clean. Hillarious interview I must say. I feel sorry for Lance, he got screwed.

"If somebody commits a violation, serves a ban and comes back to the sport, part of the rule is this idea of redemption," Tygart told BBC Sport

"To give young, clean athletes a chance, we have to get those dirty team owners, doctors and coaches out of the sport, because as long as they're still there it's not going to get any cleaner."

What's fair, and what athletes and the public rely on, is a set of rules that are enforced evenly."

Yeah that makes a lot of sense..

 

[Benotti69]

Travis Tygart really is making a fool of himself with Gaitlin. Sadly. He did so well with Armstrong and now a massive mistake on Gaitlin. 100 metres is probably worse than cycling FFS.

 

[Bluenote]

Why do you keep ranting about things you have not read?

May I recommend the ignore feature?

When I read this thread it looks something like:

- interesting update from RR
-ignore
-ignore
-a few posts discussing Qui Tam
-ignore
-ignore
-some funny snark from Mrs. Andreu
-ignore
-ignore
-someone posts a good interview or article
-ignore
-ignore

At this point, most everyone has made up their mind about Armstrong / Frankie Andreu / Travis Tygart / etc... A few posts attempting to rewrite history are unlikely to change many minds.

 

[gooner]

Travis Tygart really is making a fool of himself with Gaitlin. Sadly. He did so well with Armstrong. And now a massive mistake on Gaitlin. 100 metres is probably worse than cycling FFS.

Agree, he's wrong on Gatlin. I agree with his point on the enablers and for a first offender I think the incentive card should be an open one.

Not so sure that should be available for a second offence. In the case of Gatlin, it's just saving his own *** than doing anything for the good of the sport.

Travis is amazing - as are USADA - love their consistency

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/athletics/29571601

Lol.

Says the guy who loves Di Luca and agrees with his point on legalised doping. He's no different to Gatlin. Got a nice reduced ban and still doped on his return after two previous suspensions.

 

[pmcg76]

Ammat's figures for top ten guys show this is absolutely not the case. Confirmed by ross tucker and veloclinic.

Any chance you could direct us to where this was analysed, I only see a Froome v Nibali analysis on Veloclinic.

Edit: Nevermind I found the articles on Cycling Tips and they don't really reflect what you are saying.

Digger posted the quoted part in response to this from DirtyWorks

"Except somethings have changed. We see very young riders with good results. We see, with exceptions, power is down"

Ammat's refuses in general to comment on performances and just provides stats, but they did say this.

@ammattipyöräily: We saw a good Tour. I’m not an expert to analyze whether a Tour is clean or not… At least this year’s Tour was much cleaner compared to Tour editions in 1990s and early 2000s.

veloclinic seems relatively optimistic:

CyclingTips: Do these figures reassure you or give you cause for concern?

Mike Puchowicz: This year my assessment is that it is very plausible that a podium step was within reach of clean riders. If this assessment could be corroborated by reassuring bio-passport data it would go a long way toward the ongoing rebuild of the Tour’s credibility.

Mike Puchowicz: This year Nibali was simply on a level above the remaining GC contenders. It is not likely that Pinot, Peraud, Valverde, or Bardet would be competitive compared to 2013 or the 2002-2007 baseline.

Ross Tucker seems the most suspicious and even then is non-commital. Most of the discussion is based around Froome, Nibali, Quintana and Contador, the podium guys and they seem to think these are the only guys who would be considered competitive in 2002-07.

So to state that they all agree that things have not changed since 2002-07 and that the Top 10 guys are all posting suspicious performances is of course completely false. Also if I remember correctly, the Giro had the lowest power outputs but anyone can correct me on that if wrong.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/t...lysis-of-climbing-data-and-what-does-it-mean/

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/10/vuelta-a-espana-climbing-speeds-how-should-we-interpret-the-data/

 

[JRTinMA]

Good for Frankie. Doping pays for him too.

I thought this was a very good job interview. The phone call from JV should be imminent.

Hook up Frankie and CVV on Universal sports, an all doper lineup. Who better to suck up to the dopers in the cycling game than a couple of ****ing dopers. Everybody hates on Paul and Phil the timing is perfect.

 

[bodhizaffa]

Probably because Justin "believes".

Armstrong should add some biblical nonsense to his twitter bio.

 

[Race Radio]

I found the articles on Cycling Tips and they don't really reflect what you are saying.

That is usually the case. Take a snippet out of context, blow it out of proportion, then ignore anything that negates their obsession.

Plenty of experts say that overall speeds are down, even at the front of the field

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/396357950081490944

5.5 W/kg in the 2012 Giro. The lowest avg. power output of a Grand Tour winner since LeMond.

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/58349990782/bmf-case-study-hesjedal-giro-2012

overall performance is at least plausible for a top clean rider which is important because Hesjedal is the only GC contender we have with published blood data without any major red flags......no performances in the definitely doped range

Frankie has been deeply involved in the sport for 30 years. He has shown over and over that he will speak the truth, regardless of the professional damage it may cause him. I will take Frankie's view over a handful of folks whose primary experience with the sport is ranting..... not racing

 

[the sceptic]

Hook up Frankie and CVV on Universal sports, an all doper lineup. Who better to suck up to the dopers in the cycling game than a couple of ****ing dopers. Everybody hates on Paul and Phil the timing is perfect.

2012-2014 is right back to the Lance years in terms of climbing speeds and mutant racing. The funny thing is that the same people who pretended to be anti doping back then have now ushered in a new era of omerta. The new generation bs was funny back in 2012, but it really has become a parody now.

It is certainly possible Sky are doping. But so far we have seen none of what we saw 10 years ago

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Wow Frankie writes an article with his observations of a long involvement with cycling and the flaming is on!
I guess it has been a slow week and this must have excited a lot of people.

I'm all for fun..we have good times here tearing things to shreds

For the most part I'm shocked SHOCKED that comments are taken out of context
and blown into something worthy of a soap opera..

do you Frankie-bashers really think he has played the 'make nice' game??
I guess then we should soon see a new cycling hotel for the wealthy rising on the horizon of his upscale Detroit neighborhood..or maybe a new line of Frankie clothes..or his new partnership with Bobke and some of the other gang on a major network..

yeah!

 

[JRTinMA]

Wow Frankie writes an article with his observations of a long involvement with cycling and the flaming is on!
I guess it has been a slow week and this must have excited a lot of people.

I'm all for fun..we have good times here tearing things to shreds

For the most part I'm shocked SHOCKED that comments are taken out of context
and blown into something worthy of a soap opera..

do you Frankie-bashers really think he has played the 'make nice' game??
I guess then we should soon see a new cycling hotel for the wealthy rising on the horizon of his upscale Detroit neighborhood..or maybe a new line of Frankie clothes..or his new partnership with Bobke and some of the other gang on a major network..

yeah!

We get it you love SOME dopers.

 

[mewmewmew13]

We get it you love SOME dopers.

We get that you are trying to label some as 'doper lovers' or whatever..we all know that the issue is much more complex.

If you can come up with a fraction of the number of stories of Frankie ruining good people's lives as you can come up with Lance stories of the same then I might change my view of Frankie.

Ta!

 

[thehog]

Travis Tygart really is making a fool of himself with Gaitlin. Sadly. He did so well with Armstrong and now a massive mistake on Gaitlin. 100 metres is probably worse than cycling FFS.

He's allowing his religion to comprise his decision making process.

It's of major concern. Not sure how it can be dealt with.

 

[JRTinMA]

We get that you are trying to label some as 'doper lovers' or whatever..we all know that the issue is much more complex.

If you can come up with a fraction of the number of stories of Frankie ruining good people's lives as you can come up with Lance stories of the same then I might change my view of Frankie.

Ta!

I got it, good dopers just dope and cheat honest cyclists out of money and a spot in the pro ranks. Bad dopers ruin other peoples lives. Wait a minute, what about the people cheated by the good dopers? Just lost opportunity I guess. ****ing apologist.

 

[MarkvW]

The "agenda" here is to stress the "talking points" that professional cycling is something other than a filthy disreputable circus. In furtherance of this agenda, people must be made to see that Lance Armstrong was an aberration--a freak--and that his elimination was a "step forward" into a world where "clean riders can win now."

The reality is that the UCI is hopelessly corrupt and that the peloton is as suffused with doping now as it always has been. Lance Armstrong, vile as he is, is the perfect representation of professional cycling. Lance did not triumph because he transgressed. Lance triumphed because he utterly embraced the amorality of the sport and mastered every lesson taught by the amoral doping champions of the past. We can never forget that Lance was brought to his doping Svengali by Merckx, the greatest champion of them all.

The simple fact is that you can't trust cycling promoters, whether they're malevolent or benign. They all want to convince you that cycling is something that it is not--honest.

Viva Kolobnev!!!

 

[Scott SoCal]

I got it, good dopers just dope and cheat honest cyclists out of money and a spot in the pro ranks. Bad dopers ruin other peoples lives. Wait a minute, what about the people cheated by the good dopers? Just lost opportunity I guess. ****ing apologist.

You should let go of your bitterness and try to view things as they are.

Frankie doped on his own, stopped on his own, ran himself out of a contract on his own and confessed on his own. Not by legal pressure, not by pending lawsuits and not by Travis.

If you were vying for a TdF spot on a pro tour team in 1999/2000 and were aced out by the dopers then at least you have grounds to ***** about Frankie. If not then feel free to stop your whining. It's unbecoming.

 

[thehog]

You should let go of your bitterness and try to view things as they are.

Frankie doped on his own, stopped on his own, ran himself out of a contract on his own and confessed on his own. Not by legal pressure, not by pending lawsuits and not by Travis.

If you were vying for a TdF spot on a pro tour team in 1999/2000 and were aced out by the dopers then at least you have grounds to ***** about Frankie. If not then feel free to stop your whining. It's unbecoming.

Ummmm, yeah, nah.

Nice words but he doped part of group that decided to dope and did so without his martial partners knowledge. He procured his own dope and was ultimately uncovered when she saw him playing the part of Richie Porte.

When he did admit he said he had no knowledge of Armstrong's doping.

Honourable but let's not pretend it's anymore than it was.

Lets just keep things in perspective shall we?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

We see, with exceptions, power is down and that third week in a grand tour isn't looking so pretty any more either. Those old enough to have followed the sport prior to EPO should recognize this.

I am old enough for that. But let me tell you this, the difference between a GT rider and a non GT rider is just that the GT rider is able to compete in that third week of a GT....

It is called recuperation, with the arrival of EPO that came out of a syringe.

 

[Digger]

Any chance you could direct us to where this was analysed, I only see a Froome v Nibali analysis on Veloclinic.

Edit: Nevermind I found the articles on Cycling Tips and they don't really reflect what you are saying.

Digger posted the quoted part in response to this from DirtyWorks

"Except somethings have changed. We see very young riders with good results. We see, with exceptions, power is down"

Ammat's refuses in general to comment on performances and just provides stats, but they did say this.

@ammattipyöräily: We saw a good Tour. I’m not an expert to analyze whether a Tour is clean or not… At least this year’s Tour was much cleaner compared to Tour editions in 1990s and early 2000s.

veloclinic seems relatively optimistic:

CyclingTips: Do these figures reassure you or give you cause for concern?

Mike Puchowicz: This year my assessment is that it is very plausible that a podium step was within reach of clean riders. If this assessment could be corroborated by reassuring bio-passport data it would go a long way toward the ongoing rebuild of the Tour’s credibility.

Mike Puchowicz: This year Nibali was simply on a level above the remaining GC contenders. It is not likely that Pinot, Peraud, Valverde, or Bardet would be competitive compared to 2013 or the 2002-2007 baseline.

Ross Tucker seems the most suspicious and even then is non-commital. Most of the discussion is based around Froome, Nibali, Quintana and Contador, the podium guys and they seem to think these are the only guys who would be considered competitive in 2002-07.

So to state that they all agree that things have not changed since 2002-07 and that the Top 10 guys are all posting suspicious performances is of course completely false. Also if I remember correctly, the Giro had the lowest power outputs but anyone can correct me on that if wrong.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/t...lysis-of-climbing-data-and-what-does-it-mean/

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/10/vuelta-a-espana-climbing-speeds-how-should-we-interpret-the-data/

Speak to ammat. He will tell you what he thinks.
Ross has said repeatedly that we see seeing current rider in gc going as fast as known dopers.
He said last week it would be naive to think domestiques are doping while their own leaders are clean.
Ashenden said nothing has changed. It's all pr.
Landis same.
Joerg same.
Times from ammat and his watts per kilo show nothing has changed.

Quintana was doping.
Nibali was doping.
And ac was doping. All went as fast or faster that known dopers.

The same characters are In the sport.

Tucker has a level he deems almost certainly means doping. On the final week of a GT. Google it. The new generation are surpassing this.

Tucker also says he's very suspicious of these pr types who keep telling us certain things when the reality is that speeds are similar.

Frei has been told nothing has changed by people he knows.

Omerta is as bad as ever - we even have guys like Rogers welcomed back in - boogerd refusing to cooperate - martin saying it was a great day that impey got off.


But yes other than all this, things are much improved.

Ryder's Giro is oft cited. Let's examine Ryder - a guy who didn't tell all in his 'confession'...

Chris Horner last year - that's improvement - nothing from Frankie on that...kimmage was clearly exasperated with Frankie about froome.




And it wasn't cycling tips...it was Ross's own website.

 

[Digger]

Ammat's figures from 2000 to now. Show what? That, Within a margin of error, there is no difference.


Race ignores certain things that Frankie clearly avoided though as Horner is apparently the most talented American rider since lemond according to him.
Frankie says the young riders aren't faced with the choices they previously did. A week after the second Astana guy gets done for epo. When we all know their leader was also doping.

One point of note. About race. First person to insult yesterday and go away from the topic was him. post 9430
When hog came back, he replied to hog first. Yet race is the one saying he's the one being stalked by hog.
Race is the one saying others are bringing this plans down with insults etc.

Thanks for proving my point though.

 

[jens_attacks]

i love justin gatlin. he's so cool and i hope he beats bolt's record. he's a freakin machine