Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Anonymous]

Answer the question. Something you demand all the time when you're busy derailing threads. How did he score a 52?

Altitude tent and a gastro problem. Where did he fail a test? Oh yeah, he didn't. Just like your boy (except he actually had a positive test).

 

[Anonymous]

Show me where I said EPO? Link please.

Where did Pantani test positive? Anywhere?

Please include a link.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Answer the question. Something you demand all the time when you're busy derailing threads. How did he score a 52?

They took a blood sample from him and put his blood sample in this machine and it spins it really quick and then they are able to work out what percentage of red blood cells are in the sample. Its high tech stuff - I hope that helps.

A word of warning though - it is not a dope test
(just in case you start derailing a thread by giving history lessons)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Show me where I said EPO? Link please.

you said he failed a dope test - he didn't.

 

[JRTinMA]

Altitude tent and a gastro problem. Where did he fail a test? Oh yeah, he didn't. Just like your boy (except he actually had a positive test).

I already said you're ***** LA failed a test. Read again. Are you trying to defend the 50% rule as less than a test. Doper apologists like you are whats wrong with this sport. All dopers need to be purged, not just the "bad" dopers. Think for yourself and stop with the group think man.

 

[webvan]

I'm confused, is there some role playing going on here or do we really have Betsy A. among us ?!

 

[B.Rasmussen]

I'm confused, is there some role playing going on here or do we really have Betsy A. among us ?!

It's her, and as always a pleasure to read her posts.

 

[JRTinMA]

They took a blood sample from him and put his blood sample in this machine and it spins it really quick and then they are able to work out what percentage of red blood cells are in the sample. Its high tech stuff - I hope that helps.

A word of warning though - it is not a dope test
(just in case you start derailing a thread by giving history lessons)

It was a test of doping and he failed like you. In 99 labs were not using the centrifugation method to test Hct. How was his test performed? Guess again.

 

[Anonymous]

I already said you're ***** LA failed a test. Read again. Are you trying to defend the 50% rule as less than a test. Doper apologists like you are whats wrong with this sport. All dopers need to be purged, not just the "bad" dopers. Think for yourself and stop with the group think man.

Doper apologist? Pfft. Why don't you back up your declaration?

You put Frankie in the same company as... who? Lance? Pantani? Basso? Ullrich? Fine. None failed a dope test did they?

All dopers need to be purged, not just the "bad" dopers

This is a top down problem. Frankie doped because he had to. Because his A-Hole boss demanded it. There's a difference, slick. Pull your head out.

 

[MacRoadie]

Answer the question. Something you demand all the time when you're busy derailing threads. How did he score a 52?

Some reading for you:

BLOOD TESTING FOR PROFESSIONAL CYCLISTS: What's a fair hematocrit limit?

Why a 50% Hematocrit?

Although the UCI should be congratulated for their efforts to prevent the illegal use of rhEPO, the 50% hematocrit limit (approximately 16.5 g/dl) may be too aggressive and result in many false positive tests. The UCI cut-off is obviously much lower than the 18 g/dl hemoglobin limit selected by FIS. In response to a query made by the Department of Physiology and Applied Nutrition at the Australian Institute of Sport, the UCI explained that the 50% cut-off valued was agreed to by sport doctors and team directors working for the major professional cycling teams. The UCI explained that, a 53% hematocrit limit was initially proposed (based on three standard deviations above the average hematocrit value for a normal population) but then decreased to 50% to ensure that all professional team delegates were in agreement. Why would doctors with professional cycling teams push for a lower detection limit? Maybe "clean" cycling programs want to insure that drug users will be caught or at least be more limited with their illegal activities. Or perhaps there is evidence indicating that a 51% hematocrit is dangerous for endurance athletes.

Three standard deviation points above an AVERAGE value for a NORMAL population. 50% represents an AVERAGE in a NORMAL population. Nowhere does any study suggest it is an upper LIMIT within ANY population. In other words, go out and test 100 people off the street, and the AVERAGE hematocrit will be 50%, with some falling above (like 51% or maybe 52%), and some falling below.

There is zero evidence that a 50% hematocrit is the be-all and end-all for determining who is and isn't doping. For such a rabid anti-doper such as yourself, one would think you would rather rely on actual test results rather than almost arbitrary crit limits.

Was Pantani a doper? Of course he was. But saying his 52 hematocrit is just as good as a failed test is just plain lazy.

 

[JRTinMA]

I'm confused, is there some role playing going on here or do we really have Betsy A. among us ?!

She is the real deal. A hero to the sport, albeit sometimes misguided.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It was a test of doping and he failed like you. In 99 labs were not using the centrifugation method to test Hct. How was his test performed? Guess again.

It was not a doping test.

It even said so in the article you linked.

 

[Anonymous]

She is the real deal. A hero to the sport, albeit sometimes misguided.

Pretty much a compliment coming from the essence of misguided.

 

[JRTinMA]

Doper apologist? Pfft. Why don't you back up your declaration?

You put Frankie in the same company as... who? Lance? Pantani? Basso? Ullrich? Fine. None failed a dope test did they?




This is a top down problem. Frankie doped because he had to. Because his A-Hole boss demanded it. There's a difference, slick. Pull your head out.

Thank you! BTW, all I said is Frankie had dope money in 99 and 2000. You have decided good dopers from bad.

 

[JRTinMA]

It was not a doping test.

It even said so in the article you linked.

Hein is a credible source. When he says somebody should not be judged for doping we should all listen. #fail

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you! BTW, all I said is Frankie had dope money in 99 and 2000. You have decided good dopers from bad.

Please enumerate who didn't have dope money in 99 and 2000?

So what?

Good dopers from bad? Hardly. It's all about degrees, of which you clearly have no concept. Like I said, a top down problem. Who forced dope on others? Your boy Lance or was it Frankie who corrupted everyone?

 

[JRTinMA]

Please enumerate who didn't have dope money in 99 and 2000?

So what?

Good dopers from bad? Hardly. It's all about degrees, of which you clearly have no concept. Like I said, a top down problem. Who forced dope on others? Your boy Lance or was it Frankie who corrupted everyone?

Sure thing, Lance is "my boy". So did they all dope in 99 and 2000? Did anyone say no? I can give you ten names of guys who said no but you wouldn't know because you weren't there. They never got the fame FA got. He took the dope and knew who he was cheating. Get over it.

 

[webvan]

It's her, and as always a pleasure to read her posts.

Thanks, I'm baffled!

 

[ricara]

You have decided good dopers from bad.

I'm happy to "decide good dopers from bad".

Let's look at it another way -- have you ever broken any law in your entire life? Did you ever steal some candy from a store as a kid? Ever cheat on a test in school? Ever TP someone's house at Halloween? Ever shoot off fireworks that were illegal where you live? Ever roll through a stop sign (even on your bike)? Ever speed?

I thought so. So now you are a criminal. For the rest of your life. There is no way to atone. Even if you were caught, and paid the fine, and maybe got kicked out school, or even went to jail -- it doesn't matter. You can not atone for your sin. For the rest of your life you are a CRIMINAL!

We should tattoo your forehead so everyone will know. Better yet, let's use a branding iron. Or maybe we should follow some of the hard-core Muslim laws -- caught stealing a candy bar and cut off your hand. But even then, there is no forgiveness -- only condemnation.

Is that how we should treat dopers? They take dope one time and they are total scum for the rest of their life (and the next one after)? Or is it possible to atone? And are there degrees? Is stealing a candy bar the same as robbing a bank? Is slapping someone as bad as killing someone?

Just askin', that's all.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Hein is a credible source. When he says somebody should not be judged for doping we should all listen. #fail

Hein is about as credible as you - but unlike you he knows that a health test is not a dope test.

If Pantani failed a dope test - why was he only suspended for 2 weeks?

 

[Anonymous]

Sure thing, Lance is "my boy". So did they all dope in 99 and 2000? Did anyone say no? I can give you ten names of guys who said no but you wouldn't know because you weren't there. They never got the fame FA got. He took the dope and knew who he was cheating. Get over it.

Ten guys? Wow, it was worse than eve I thought. FA was a , um, household name, eh?

Lessee, what year was it FA took a flyer and nearly won the last stage on the Champs? In at the finale of Paris-Roubaix? Were you there?

Ok, man. Have a nice evening.

 

[JRTinMA]

I'm happy to "decide good dopers from bad".

Let's look at it another way -- have you ever broken any law in your entire life? Did you ever steal some candy from a store as a kid? Ever cheat on a test in school? Ever TP someone's house at Halloween? Ever shoot off fireworks that were illegal where you live? Ever roll through a stop sign (even on your bike)? Ever speed?

I thought so. So now you are a criminal. For the rest of your life. There is no way to atone. Even if you were caught, and paid the fine, and maybe got kicked out school, or even went to jail -- it doesn't matter. You can not atone for your sin. For the rest of your life you are a CRIMINAL!

We should tattoo your forehead so everyone will know. Better yet, let's use a branding iron. Or maybe we should follow some of the hard-core Muslim laws -- caught stealing a candy bar and cut off your hand. But even then, there is no forgiveness -- only condemnation.

Is that how we should treat dopers? They take dope one time and they are total scum for the rest of their life (and the next one after)? Or is it possible to atone? And are there degrees? Is stealing a candy bar the same as robbing a bank? Is slapping someone as bad as killing someone?

Just askin', that's all.

I have done every example you list except TP a house, that's weird. I have never cheated at work, never once. I can't, I work in a business based on trust and have never cheated a penny from a client. Try again to defend the good dopers.

 

[JRTinMA]

Hein is about as credible as you - but unlike you he knows that a health test is not a dope test.

If Pantani failed a dope test - why was he only suspended for 2 weeks?

So you're suggesting it was all a mistake and he was clean. *** edited by mod ***

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sure thing, Lance is "my boy". So did they all dope in 99 and 2000? Did anyone say no? I can give you ten names of guys who said no but you wouldn't know because you weren't there. They never got the fame FA got. He took the dope and knew who he was cheating. Get over it.

I am going to take a wild guess here - but none of your 10 people rode for USPS in 1999?
Frankie doped to get on the Tour team - so he didn't cheat your buddies out of anything because if they weren't willing to dope they wouldn't have made it on to Lances team.

 

[JRTinMA]

Ten guys? Wow, it was worse than eve I thought. FA was a , um, household name, eh?

Lessee, what year was it FA took a flyer and nearly won the last stage on the Champs? In at the finale of Paris-Roubaix? Were you there?

Ok, man. Have a nice evening.

apologist.