Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[ElChingon]

http://facts4lance.org/

Now redirects (or more precisely 'frames') cache cache's website. I was beginning to wonder if it was going to be a mock site, although I would be concerned about the defamatory potential of that.

But take a look at the title bar at the top of the screen --- Witness Intimidation ..... oh, the schadenfreude of watching this fraud climb so high and die this pathetic 'death by a thousand cuts' is just too delicious to deny. One by one, the believers drop away and he is increasingly less invincible. Great human drama.

Who else has made a reservation

 

[Oldman]

Telluride blows Aspen away on all fronts. Beauty not even close, mountain Ajax is a joke compared to the terrain in Telluride, charm of town again not even close. Aspen is for the want to be seen crowd and the want to see crowd.

It hasn't changed much over the years. In the 80's it was known as the place rich New York stockbrokers and Dallas oil dudes would take their honeys and buy them Bogner jumpsuits and Volant skis. The hill was gentle and groomed and the coke plentiful.
Skiers go to Telluride, Jackson, Whistler; you know-Mountains. Unfortunately the restaurant scene can be similar in all of those places but at least there is real skiing to be had.

 

[JRTinMA]

It hasn't changed much over the years. In the 80's it was known as the place rich New York stockbrokers and Dallas oil dudes would take their honeys and buy them Bogner jumpsuits and Volant skis. The hill was gentle and groomed and the coke plentiful.
Skiers go to Telluride, Jackson, Whistler; you know-Mountains. Unfortunately the restaurant scene can be similar in all of those places but at least there is real skiing to be had.

I always wanted the Volants but couldn't afford them at the time. You gotta admit they were horny looking skis.

 

[BotanyBay]

Let's leave his kids out of this, please.

Susan

Mentioning that he indeed does HAVE kids is far from bringing them into this. It's like saying I feel sorry for his GF. That doesn't mean I've involved his GF.

There's no separating his compartmentalized life from one's family.

 

[Velodude]

"All appears lost?" Maybe a little hyperbolic.

I can't infer more than an emotionally stunted control freak lashing out when he loses a degree of control.

I do not believe my interpretation of LA's position is slightly exaggerated.

He is a well informed represented litigant through civil litigation where he has been in the position more as a plaintiff than defendant in court rooms all around the world.

He could exercise some control in those skirmishes through settlements which, despite his false claims of wins, occurred.

The Grand Jury inquisition through its secrecy provisions is an awkward and different state of affairs for a control freak. It is a sword of Damocles for LA as the indictments expected are more serious than a UCI positive drug control and the prosecution have more resources and will to succeed.

Once one or more dominoes fall the rest will collapse to avoid perjury charges.

Example, the Oakley sunglasses Representative, Stephanie McIlvain, was in the witness box for 103 minutes during the SCA tribunal. At the Grand Jury it was reported she was examined for 7 hours.

The Grand Jury can hear hearsay evidence as there is no Judge and objecting defence counsel. LA would have concerns that he no longer has control over Ms. McIlvain who changed her evidence for the SCA Tribunal to that she had been relating beforehand.

The frustration can be seen in LA's team to respond by spin doctoring through LA (eg falsities about his position with Tailwind Sports), Facts4Lance.com assaults on characters, statements by Fabiani and the non legal letter to CBS requesting retractions and an apology for the "60 Minutes" program.

CoucheCouche, to me, was the in character venting of his frustrations of the loss of control leading to the inevitable.

 

[Stingray34]

What makes you say that? The Tour de France does not bestow intelligence on the winner. Lance has proved time and time again that he is reckless. He has a history of doing unnecessarily stupid things. A few months ago there was an interview with a writer that knows Lance. The writer said that Lance was not smart and in the same answer mentioned how cruel he could be. I wish I could find a link.

Stupidity isn't a necessary and sufficient condition for meanness, but, from my experience, it certainly helps.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I used to go to Aspen skiing every year from 1981 until 1992. We'd stay in Aspen skiing between Buttermilk, Snowmass and when I got really confident, Ajax itself.
I mentioned to Frankie long ago before lance bought a house there that I'd love to take the kids there. With all that's going on, how ridiculous is it that we should stay away from Aspen on purpose. It's like saying lance has no business coming to Michigan.
If you don't know lance i.e. if you believe the crafted image you may find it hard to believe he'd approach Ty and go off on him. However, if you know Lance, you find his behavior and actions toward Tyler par for the course.
It is a felony to lie to a federal agent. Tyler would be in hot hot water were he making this up. I don't think he'd put himself at risk of committing a felony by concocting this incident.

Isn't that just the way it goes sometimes...those (you) who should not be the ones that are purposely altering your lives and where you go, while the real ***holes go blithely along through life and run roughshod.

The reality is, it is folks like you & Frankie--who have consciences and ethics and integrity---make graceful decisions about how you live among others and care about how your actions affect those around you.

Guys like Lance are clueless as to societal norms and unspoken ethics, they tread wherever they feel like it, unaware of others' feelings, and carrying around a sense of entitlement.

Yes, I can totally see him 'going after someone' --just because a personality like his would never let anyone 'get away with something' and his need to assert his dominance and control.

I'm really happy that Ty is strong enough to report the crap that LA pulled.

 

[ggusta]

Question; Lance is a tyrant. But from what I know he's not stupid. Why o why would he approach Tyler and suggest tearing him apart? In public as well. Are these chinks in the amour or do you think Lamce still thinks he's in in the right and will take on this case and win? Surely he must knows the game is up?

Drunk or in a hyper emotional state, I can see myself doing something as stupid/manic. But isn't he surrounded by handlers? WTF are they thinking? Or were they asleep at the switch?

If I were him I'd blame it on alcohol as a last resort if all the other concocted cover stories break down. It always has been one of my favorite, 'WHOOPS, got me.' excuses.

But he does strike me as someone who is at least smart enough to know when to seek counsel, which lately is needed 100% of the time. Or is he just so cornered at this point that he is just completely falling apart in the head? I can't really see it. I give him more credit than that.

At some point I really think his best outcome is just come clean and beg for mercy. If he can't see that, dumb or smart, his hubris will truly have gotten the best of him. Which is a good possibility.

 

[Epicycle]

Question; Lance is a tyrant. But from what I know he's not stupid. Why o why would he approach Tyler and suggest tearing him apart? In public as well. Are these chinks in the amour or do you think Lamce still thinks he's in in the right and will take on this case and win? Surely he must knows the game is up?

Why would he so obviously bully Simeoni while a global television audience was watching? He's been on a journey down his own rabbit hole for a long time. Probably doesn't suffer anybody other than yes men in his inner circle.

 

[elizab]

Question; Lance is a tyrant. But from what I know he's not stupid. Why o why would he approach Tyler and suggest tearing him apart? In public as well. Are these chinks in the amour or do you think Lamce still thinks he's in in the right and will take on this case and win? Surely he must knows the game is up?

Lance has gotten away with so incredibly much whether it be immoral, unethical or allegedly illegal. He is inoculated by the fact that people have always covered for him and still support him (TN gov joins him on ride; sponsors still support him, etc.) that he thinks he'll get away with it. He can't fathom the fact that his most loyal gravy trainers would not lie for him whether it be under oath or to the press.
The irony is that his reality is so skewed it will work against him.

Hear that old buddy pal?

p.s. we went to Aspen before it became the stomping ground for the rich and famous. We spent most of the time on Snowmass. I remember when lift tickets were only $35/day!

 

[Spider1964]

Lance has gotten away with so incredibly much whether it be immoral, unethical or allegedly illegal. He is inoculated by the fact that people have always covered for him and still support him (TN gov joins him on ride; sponsors still support him, etc.) that he thinks he'll get away with it. He can't fathom the fact that his most loyal gravy trainers would not lie for him whether it be under oath or to the press.
The irony is that his reality is so skewed it will work against him.

Hear that old buddy pal?

p.s. we went to Aspen before it became the stomping ground for the rich and famous. We spent most of the time on Snowmass. I remember when lift tickets were only $35/day!

Where's the RE-Tweet button? Maybe a "Like" Button also?

 

[MarkvW]

I do not believe my interpretation of LA's position is slightly exaggerated.

He is a well informed represented litigant through civil litigation where he has been in the position more as a plaintiff than defendant in court rooms all around the world.

He could exercise some control in those skirmishes through settlements which, despite his false claims of wins, occurred.

The Grand Jury inquisition through its secrecy provisions is an awkward and different state of affairs for a control freak. It is a sword of Damocles for LA as the indictments expected are more serious than a UCI positive drug control and the prosecution have more resources and will to succeed.

Once one or more dominoes fall the rest will collapse to avoid perjury charges.

Example, the Oakley sunglasses Representative, Stephanie McIlvain, was in the witness box for 103 minutes during the SCA tribunal. At the Grand Jury it was reported she was examined for 7 hours.

The Grand Jury can hear hearsay evidence as there is no Judge and objecting defence counsel. LA would have concerns that he no longer has control over Ms. McIlvain who changed her evidence for the SCA Tribunal to that she had been relating beforehand.

The frustration can be seen in LA's team to respond by spin doctoring through LA (eg falsities about his position with Tailwind Sports), Facts4Lance.com assaults on characters, statements by Fabiani and the non legal letter to CBS requesting retractions and an apology for the "60 Minutes" program.

CoucheCouche, to me, was the in character venting of his frustrations of the loss of control leading to the inevitable.

Okay, but "all is lost?" This looks kinda like Simeoni all over again, to me. Simeoni, in its way, was even more extreme (and shocking) than this because it was so horrifically public.

Lance is a jerk, and the Cache/Simeoni behavior is just evidence of his extreme jerkishness--not an I dicator that "all is lost."

 

[ricara]

We spent most of the time on Snowmass. I remember when lift tickets were only $35/day!

And since Aspen/Snowmass has always been the premium spread, that's when "normal" resorts were only charging $15 to $25 per day. Of course the cyclists who wanted some serious off-season training would either pay $5/day for access to groomed cross-country trails or else just go onto Forest Service trails for free...

I went downhill skiing exactly once, in the early '80s. After equipment rental ($10), my share of the gas ($5), a lift ticket ($20), lunch at the lodge ($10 for a hotdog and a hot chocolate), and snacks in the car ($5), I had spent $50. That was a whole month's spending money in those days. Never again, not when I could go XC-skiing for $5 in gas.

Of course that was before global warming, when there actually used to be snow on the ground without the use of snow-making equipment...

 

[Velodude]

Okay, but "all is lost?" This looks kinda like Simeoni all over again, to me. Simeoni, in its way, was even more extreme (and shocking) than this because it was so horrifically public.

Lance is a jerk, and the Cache/Simeoni behavior is just evidence of his extreme jerkishness--not an I dicator that "all is lost."

Yes, in my opinion, all is lost if as predicted subsequent GJ witnesses will be obliged for self protection to be honest and consistent with the expected content of the testimonies of TH and FL. Big George is apparently in concert.

Greg Lemond and Frank & Betsy Andreu will be vindicated by singing at the SCA Tribunal and not kowtowing the the godfather of US cycling.

Lance will be heard repeating on further occasions "Et tu, Brute?"

 

[mewmewmew13]

dang, I can't wait to hear some more from big George.
After, that non-denial denial, it's just got to be true that he's been singing.

The week of Tyler, Frankie, and the big George news came out was so exhilarating.

And doesn't it seem like Lance's legal team is eerily quiet?

 

[JRTinMA]

Lance has gotten away with so incredibly much whether it be immoral, unethical or allegedly illegal. He is inoculated by the fact that people have always covered for him and still support him (TN gov joins him on ride; sponsors still support him, etc.) that he thinks he'll get away with it. He can't fathom the fact that his most loyal gravy trainers would not lie for him whether it be under oath or to the press.
The irony is that his reality is so skewed it will work against him.

Hear that old buddy pal?

p.s. we went to Aspen before it became the stomping ground for the rich and famous. We spent most of the time on Snowmass. I remember when lift tickets were only $35/day!

How much money did your husband make after his prime because of the dope? He would have long been washed up but the dope gave him his most lucrative years at USPS. You should be applauded for what you did but you reaped the benefits just the same. #justlikelancenowbothgoaway

 

[D-Queued]

...

And doesn't it seem like Lance's legal team is eerily quiet?

Especially during a week when the client did such a great job of capturing the spotlight for them to shine in.

Dave.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How much money did your husband make after his prime because of the dope? He would have long been washed up but the dope gave him his most lucrative years at USPS. You should be applauded for what you did but you reaped the benefits just the same. #justlikelancenowbothgoaway

Frankies doping was probably the difference between making the Tour squad -as being prepared was the requirement if you wanted to ride for Armstrong.

So, no - they are not the same.
Add to that all the jobs Frankie lost for telling the truth against your hero and it would be a net loss.

 

[elizab]

How much money did your husband make after his prime because of the dope? He would have long been washed up but the dope gave him his most lucrative years at USPS. You should be applauded for what you did but you reaped the benefits just the same. #justlikelancenowbothgoaway

Nice try but try harder.
Frankie admitted his wrongdoing on his own volition. He refused to see Ferrari, was chided for being "selfish" rode the 2000 Tour clean and his career as a cyclist was over.
I reaped the benefits of having a husband who had the balls to admit his wrongdoing, compete clean and have his career cut short because he was clean and one of the cleaner guys.
I have to say, it's funny that I elicit such vitriol from you.

 

[Anonymous]

How much money did your husband make after his prime because of the dope? He would have long been washed up but the dope gave him his most lucrative years at USPS. You should be applauded for what you did but you reaped the benefits just the same. #justlikelancenowbothgoaway

Just the same? Frankie won 7 tours?

Crap post. Really.

 

[MacRoadie]

How much money did your husband make after his prime because of the dope? He would have long been washed up but the dope gave him his most lucrative years at USPS. You should be applauded for what you did but you reaped the benefits just the same. #justlikelancenowbothgoaway

You probaby already know this, but as there may be others who might assume this latest chapter in your apparent vendetta aginst Betsy holds some iota of truth, I'll go to the bother of repeating it for about the two thousandth time. You really need to let go of the Betsy/Frankie hate.

Frankie used EPO for a short period of time in one season, 1999.

2 Ex-Teammates of Cycling Star Admit Drug Use

In an interview at his home in Dearborn, Mich., Andreu said that he took EPO for only a few races and that he was acknowledging his use now because he thought doping was damaging his sport.

Neither rider ever tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs, but both said they felt as if they had to take EPO to make the Tour team in 1999.

Frankie turned pro in 1989, and retired after the 2000 season so your "most lucrative years" comment is wrong as well. He used for part of one season, to make the Tour team, and retired after the very next season.

#readbeforeyouopenyourmouth

 

[JRTinMA]

Nice try but try harder.
Frankie admitted his wrongdoing on his own volition. He refused to see Ferrari, was chided for being "selfish" rode the 2000 Tour clean and his career as a cyclist was over.
I reaped the benefits of having a husband who had the balls to admit his wrongdoing, compete clean and have his career cut short because he was clean and one of the cleaner guys.
I have to say, it's funny that I elicit such vitriol from you.

Dopers are dopers. I have always defended you for what you did but I see no degrees of cheating. He became a fraud the day he cheated, you apologists can decide the scale. Talk to the guys left behind who didn't dope and see who's right. Doperssuck

 

[ricara]

How much money did your husband make after his prime because of the dope? He would have long been washed up but the dope gave him his most lucrative years at USPS. You should be applauded for what you did but you reaped the benefits just the same. #justlikelancenowbothgoaway

Wow! "How to Win Friends and Influence People", by Dale Carnegie. It's a classic. Only hundred pages or so, it's a quick read.

Here is what Frankie has already said on the subject to reporter Juliet Macur of the New York Times:

Andreu admitted to taking EPO in preparation for the 1999 Tour, but claims that the rest of his career was almost entirely clean.

Macur quotes Betsy as saying that when she discovered the EPO and confronted Frankie about it, he told her he'd never do it again.

He rode one more year for Postal and then retired.

 

[Anonymous]

Nice try but try harder.
Frankie admitted his wrongdoing on his own volition. He refused to see Ferrari, was chided for being "selfish" rode the 2000 Tour clean and his career as a cyclist was over.
I reaped the benefits of having a husband who had the balls to admit his wrongdoing, compete clean and have his career cut short because he was clean and one of the cleaner guys.
I have to say, it's funny that I elicit such vitriol from you.

This is what you get by telling the truth nowadays. Sad...

The moral equivalency is so very silly. Did Frankie spit on Simeoni? Berate Bassons? Write a check to th UCI? Build his entire career on a mountain of deceit?

See, I don't remember any of that.

 

[JRTinMA]

You probaby already know this, but as there may be others who might assume this latest chapter in your apparent vendetta aginst Betsy holds some iota of truth, I'll go to the bother of repeating it for about the two thousandth time. You really need to let go of the Betsy/Frankie hate.

Frankie used EPO for a short period of time in one season, 1999.

2 Ex-Teammates of Cycling Star Admit Drug Use





Frankie turned pro in 1989, and retired after the 2000 season so your "most lucrative years" comment is wrong as well. He used for part of one season, to make the Tour team, and retired after the very next season.

#readbeforeyouopenyourmouth

I stand corrected...and Frankie only paid Fuentes for coaching.