Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

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ChrisE said:
Really? So there was a mass peleton micro-dosing on the cutting edge of test avoidance for 7 years, with no screw ups? While LA was running around with needles in his arm torqued to the max?

I don't buy it, and I don't buy JU, Beloki, FL, Vino, Heras, Chicken, etc. all stopped adhering to this "threshold" as you say once LA retired. What a coincidence that would be. :rolleyes:

Did FL or TH, who we like to quote, ever insinuate such a thing? FL stated LA got out of the TdS positive. Has either stated LA had special treatment over all others, and that others were doping less? No, and both of them go out of their way to paint LA as a great rider which flies in the face of this theory if they thought he had a highing doping threashold than the others.

I stated upthread that TH stated the peleton were all in cahoots on test avoidance. Nothing has come to light stating what you were stating, and if it was the case somebody would eventually get ****ed off don't you think? Did FL and TH say they had to do things differently than they did on USPS do to having to stay on a lower threshold? No.

And that could explain why they got popped in their post-Armstrong careers.
 
May 18, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
That's because you are fixated with 'the Tour'.

The discussion is about LA getting off by the UCI, the 01 positive was in Suisse.

Yes, I am fixated on the tour. I have stated that many times. It is the cash cow, it is the one LA is in exposing the largest market. If LA doesn't ride due to an AAF, at any time during the year, it would be bad. I am not sure where we are losing eachother here.

It would be bad if LA got popped in the TdS, or the Tour de Shythole. I agree that perhaps he had protection all year, but coincidentally none of his adversaries that concentrated on that GT got popped in testing except JU OOC for ecstacy, at least until after LA retired. What a coincidence. I do admit TH was a one off here, but there were alot of circumstances there with alot of players maybe the UCI couldn't control.....
 

Dr. Maserati

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ChrisE said:
Really? So there was a mass peleton micro-dosing on the cutting edge of test avoidance for 7 years, with no screw ups? While LA was running around with needles in his arm torqued to the max?

I don't buy it, and I don't buy JU, Beloki, FL, Vino, Heras, Chicken, etc. all stopped adhering to this "threshold" as you say once LA retired. What a coincidence that would be. :rolleyes:

Did FL or TH, who we like to quote, ever insinuate such a thing? FL stated LA got out of the TdS positive. Has either stated LA had special treatment over all others, and that others were doping less? No, and both of them go out of their way to paint LA as a great rider which flies in the face of this theory if they thought he had a highing doping threashold than the others.

I stated upthread that TH stated the peleton were all in cahoots on test avoidance. Nothing has come to light stating what you were stating, and if it was the case somebody would eventually get ****ed off don't you think? Did FL and TH say they had to do things differently than they did on USPS do to having to stay on a lower threshold? No.

Actually......
[Kimmage]Okay, given your ambition to win the Tour; and given what you know about Lance and his power within the UCI; and given that you had been working with Ferrari and a doping programme: Was there no element of you thinking ‘How do I do this if I step out of that programme? If I break those ties and provoke them, how will I succeed?’ Did you think that through at all?

[Landis] I did, absolutely, and I was worried about…not how I was going to do it myself, but I was worried they were going to prevent me from doing it. Because by this time I had figured out that all I really needed was blood transfusions and a little bit of anabolic (steroids) over time. I knew I could recover well enough on my own, and could train well enough without other crazy things. Because that’s all I did up to 2004, and I was extremely good in 2004, I was about as good as I have ever been. And I knew that if I just improved a little bit from there I’d be good enough to win. So I didn’t really need Ferrari’s advice any more because I didn’t really use his training programmes anyway because I had all his other information. My main concern was: ‘Is the UCI going to be told to manipulate something or do something against me?’ And when it didn’t happen in 2005 I didn’t worry about it too much any more because by then I was thinking that my career wasn’t going to last too long anyway because of my hip.
Kimmage Landis interview.
 
Dr. Maserati said:
And it keeps coming back to one single fact that you ignore - who else has been caught paying off the UCI? Who else is there even a rumour of?

The reason LA got cover in 99 was because it was the 'Tour of redemption' after Festina 98 and it was right after Pantani had been kicked off the Giro.

Nobody has been "caught" paying off the UCI. Armstrong is suspected, nothing more. The idea that payoffs never happened before Lance and never happened after Lance is laughable.
 
May 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
And that could explain why they got popped in their post-Armstrong careers.

And they were not aware of this? Totally clueless, with LA's bragging and blatantness? Everybody was totally clueless, in the whole peloton including his teamates FL and TH, that LA had no threshold to stay under ie he had special treatment? No way IMO. YMMV.

And with that I am going to bed. Later.
 

Dr. Maserati

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MarkvW said:
Nobody has been "caught" paying off the UCI. Armstrong is suspected, nothing more. The idea that payoffs never happened before Lance and never happened after Lance is laughable.

If it wasn't a payoff then why the difficulty in showing a receipt, or even the machine that was supposed to be bought?
What date was the donation? Oh, I'm sorry the donations?

Who else has 'donated' to the UCI?
 
ChrisE said:
I just don't find it plausible that he was the only one with protection at the tour. It doesn't add up. Whether that was a benefit of solely LA bribing the UCI, who knows. It is irrelevant when taking into account nobody got busted in those years.

This can be readily determined.

Does Hein have a house worth <$1m, or more than $5m (inflation adjusted)?

If his house is ~$1m, then (not allowing for inheritance or marrying rich) salary plus gifts plus mortgage means one donation.

If his house is more like $5m plus, then multiple people had protection.

Dave.
 
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ChrisE said:
And they were not aware of this? Totally clueless, with LA's bragging and blatantness? Everybody was totally clueless, in the whole peloton including his teamates FL and TH, that LA had no threshold to stay under ie he had special treatment? No way IMO. YMMV.

And with that I am going to bed. Later.

Not doing things different could be a possible explanation why so many former Armstrong teammates eventually tested positive. It could be as simple as pay to play.

I'm sure LA had a threshold. It may have been the same even. But with the right information many things can happen to avoid a positive control.
 

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Dr. Maserati said:
If it wasn't a payoff then why the difficulty in showing a receipt, or even the machine that was supposed to be bought?
What date was the donation? Oh, I'm sorry the donations?

Who else has 'donated' to the UCI?

Lance is the only rider who donated money for test equipment.
It was a snazzy hi-tech Japanese machine.
Earlier in this thread the Japanese Company Press release was posted.
Mentioned Lance and the UCI. Win Win Win.

This all happened many many years ago.
I remember reading about it in VeloNews way back when the donation was made.

Do you know any other riders besides Lance who donated money for test equipment? Chirp Chirp Chirp.

Lance wrote e-mails complaining about dopers too.
Way before Floyd lol.
 
Jul 25, 2009
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ChrisE said:
Really? So there was a mass peleton micro-dosing on the cutting edge of test avoidance for 7 years, with no screw ups? While LA was running around with needles in his arm torqued to the max?

Course not. I'm suggesting that dose management COMBINED WITH prior warning of tests might explain most of the negative tests during the 1999 - 2005 TsDF. Bribing senior officials UCI to disappear tests is plan B, for those who take big risks and overdo their dosage. Plan B is only available to riders with the necessary influence. Anyone who gambles on plan B working is an "all in" kind of guy IMO.

ChrisE said:
I don't buy it, and I don't buy JU, Beloki, FL, Vino, Heras, Chicken, etc. all stopped adhering to this "threshold" as you say once LA retired. What a coincidence that would be. :rolleyes:

Coincidence? Miracle would be a better word. Some level of rider protection must have been removed. But it might be as simple as someone making it more difficult for junior officials (i.e. sample collectors) to warn the riders before tests. Those who had previously enjoyed reliable prior warning would be the most likely to get caught out by unreliable prior warning. Perhaps, for example, the requirements for a clean TDF were Dose control + Prior warning - Bordry.

I'm utterly certain that other riders made corrupt arrangements to avoid AAFs. I just think most of the arrangements would have involved a deal with a sample collector or lab technician, rather than bribes at the highest level. There are plenty of stories about lower level deals (see Voet or Kohl etc). UCI exec seem so inept and small time to me - I really don't see how they could have got away with covering AAFs on a regular basis. By the time tests get to the AAF stage, too many people would know.

ChrisE said:
Did FL or TH, who we like to quote, ever insinuate such a thing? FL stated LA got out of the TdS positive. Has either stated LA had special treatment over all others, and that others were doping less?

The comment about LA taking risks with doping leads me to infer that he was using more than others. The TDS thing and the relaxed attitude TH describes does suggest special treatment. I've certainly tried to look objectively at whether or not he was on a level playing field with his competition. To me, the TDS situation is just another indication that he was super charged (the 1999 samples were the most compelling). However I acknowledge that my efforts at objectivity have likely been impeded by my belief that he is a total ****.

ChrisE said:
No, and both of them go out of their way to paint LA as a great rider which flies in the face of this theory if they thought he had a highing doping threashold than the others.

It only flies in the face of the theory if one assumes that extra dope was the only contributing factor to his success. A silly assumption IMO.
 
Sep 5, 2009
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Just want to clarify a few facts over the LA "positive" for corticoid steroids in the 1999 TdF.

1. LA was not the only rider caught for a positive for corticoid steroids. 16 other riders were also caught throughout the TdF as a result of the corticoid doping test being first introduced without warning 10 days before the start of the TdF. One rider was hastily and prematurely withdrawn as “abandoned” by his team.

2. USPS had to cover up on behalf of LA because of his response to journalists probing of whether he had any prohibited products listed on his TUE. LA had claimed he had no exemptions on his TUE. (Ressiot of L’Equipe found this out also in 2005 in the ploy with LA to identify LA’s rider code to match with the 1999 EPO positives)

3. No TUE was backdated by the UCI. They relied only on a backdated prescription, a procedure which did not comply with the anti-doping rules.

4. The backdated prescription was for a corticoid product known as Cemalyt produced in Spain under licence.

5. There was no import application made by USPS under French law to bring this product into France.

6. Emma O’Reilly, LA's estranged masseuse, relates that LA admitted taking the corticoid during the Route du Sud the previous month and believed it would have been cleared from his system.

There had been a UCI precedent in backdating a prescription to avoid a prominent rider’s positive test. Laurant Brochard came up positive for lidocaine in 1997 during the World RR Championships – which he won.
 
Velodude said:
Just want to clarify a few facts over the LA "positive" for corticoid steroids in the 1999 TdF.

1. LA was not the only rider caught for a positive for corticoid steroids. 16 other riders were also caught throughout the TdF as a result of the corticoid doping test being first introduced without warning 10 days before the start of the TdF. One rider was hastily and prematurely withdrawn as “abandoned” by his team.

2. USPS had to cover up on behalf of LA because of his response to journalists probing of whether he had any prohibited products listed on his TUE. LA had claimed he had no exemptions on his TUE. (Ressiot of L’Equipe found this out also in 2005 in the ploy with LA to identify LA’s rider code to match with the 1999 EPO positives)

3. No TUE was backdated by the UCI. They relied only on a backdated prescription, a procedure which did not comply with the anti-doping rules.

4. The backdated prescription was for a corticoid product known as Cemalyt produced in Spain under licence.

5. There was no import application made by USPS under French law to bring this product into France.

6. Emma O’Reilly, LA's estranged masseuse, relates that LA admitted taking the corticoid during the Route du Sud the previous month and believed it would have been cleared from his system.

There had been a UCI precedent in backdating a prescription to avoid a prominent rider’s positive test. Laurant Brochard came up positive for lidocaine in 1997 during the World RR Championships – which he won.

Thanks!

How much was Laurant's donation?

Dave.
 
May 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Not doing things different could be a possible explanation why so many former Armstrong teammates eventually tested positive. It could be as simple as pay to play.

I'm sure LA had a threshold. It may have been the same even. But with the right information many things can happen to avoid a positive control.

How were things different? Per FL, LA was warned not to use EPO by Ferrari in 2001 before he got popped. Why was he warned if he had immunity? No way Ferrari was out of that loop.

Yes, I believe that was made to go away but how many other times did that happen with others? Who knows, but I think it would be a stretch to say all the other TdF players were playing less with PED's over those 7 years and that is the reason they didn't get caught. Or, they got lucky or whatever. Again, the voices from the inside (TH and FL) say zero about what you are implying, and it was nearly 3 years after he left in 2001 that TH got hit, and 2after FL left when he got popped after he admitted he doped in 2005. TH in 2003 for example was riding way over his head. Did they forget the protocol all of a sudden after that large amount of time? Lucky?

People are drawing conclusions because of the known payouts and LA hate as IWCiJ admits, vs what they see before their eyes. LA left and shyt hit the fan, from FL to the Chicken to Kohl and Ricco 2006-08. All's quiet on on the TdF front in 2009, and Wigans places 4th lol. 2010 is quiet as well until the leak of AC's positive, where there is ample evidence the UCI was trying to sweep that under the rug. Where is AC's receipt? If not, what is the connection???? I wonder.

Also, why did LA go to blood doping if he had immunity? Why go through all that hassle...just use EPO.
 
ChrisE said:
How were things different? Per FL, LA was warned not to use EPO by Ferrari in 2001 before he got popped. Why was he warned if he had immunity? No way Ferrari was out of that loop.

<snipped, but interesting>

Also, why did LA go to blood doping if he had immunity? Why go through all that hassle...just use EPO.

Ferrari was already onto orange juice.

Good pt on the blood doping.

Answers:

1. UCI signed onto the Code. Even before that, though, the UCI had increasingly less ability to fix things
2. The Gendarmes were already all over USPS by 2000 (Actovegin, IV trash, seized TdF samples)
3. Mulligan and private consultation on the TdS test

LA was still brash and stupid (2001 TdS test suppressed, after Ferrari's warning), but no amount of money can fix everything.

Dave.
 
I Watch Cycling In July said:
Course not.

It only flies in the face of the theory if one assumes that extra dope was the only contributing factor to his success. A silly assumption IMO.

A well-managed program involving a coordinated team is the same thing as "extra dope". That LA and Alberto had a well protected scenario was no coincidence and a little advance help from anyone would assure a competitive edge. Nothing silly about that and we'll see how well AC fares in the current political climate, shall we?
 
May 18, 2009
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D-Queued said:
Ferrari was already onto orange juice.

Good pt on the blood doping.

Answers:

1. UCI signed onto the Code. Even before that, though, the UCI had increasingly less ability to fix things
2. The Gendarmes were already all over USPS by 2000 (Actovegin, IV trash, seized TdF samples)
3. Mulligan and private consultation on the TdS test

LA was still brash and stupid (2001 TdS test suppressed, after Ferrari's warning), but no amount of money can fix everything.

Dave.

Yes, money can't fix everything and that is why I don't think it is about money, or LA's money, that was the get-out-of-jail-free card for him specifically.

One thing that I think would have been interesting is if OP would have happened in 2003, instead of 2006. How would LA have reacted, or the UCI for that matter, if all of his opponents got caught up in that in the middle of those years instead of afterwards?

It was a perfect storm post 2005 for the things that happened in the TdF IMO.
 
My view of what happened. Lance was a nice feel good story after Festina. Also a way to bring the US into the cycling scene. UCI had no idea of the monster they would create, or enable if you will, in Lance. Too late however. Lance ruled now. Hein and Pat knew that they would have to pay the piper one day and try to minimize the damage. Many mistakes along the way. UCI are trying to clean up sport without making themselves look too bad and complicit in the whole thing. Old guard, Hog, Riis, Och,etc do not want to cooperate because they liked it on top. The sh!t is really hit the proverbial fan though and there is a really big mess now.
I think cycling will make it out of this and be ok. We have seen the worst of it, just needs to all be exposed.
And that is where Novitsky came in
 
Jun 15, 2011
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Lance was a nice feel good story after Festina. Also a way to bring the US into the cycling scene. UCI had no idea of the monster they would create, or enable if you will, in Lance. Too late however. Lance ruled now. Hein and Pat knew that they would have to pay the piper one day and try to minimize the damage.

I made this exact same case over a few beers last night. They saved the Tour but had no idea that the greed would get out of hand. I also pondered that the 2005 retirement came after a discussion that LA had taken too much milk from the cow. Prior to this he had declared that there were a number of races he wanted to ride before retirement and then all of the sudden he was done.
 
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veganrob said:
My view of what happened. Lance was a nice feel good story after Festina. Also a way to bring the US into the cycling scene. UCI had no idea of the monster they would create, or enable if you will, in Lance. Too late however. Lance ruled now. Hein and Pat knew that they would have to pay the piper one day and try to minimize the damage.

I made this exact same case over a few beers last night. They saved the Tour but had no idea that the greed would get out of hand. I also pondered that the 2005 retirement came after a discussion that LA had taken too much milk from the cow. Prior to this he had declared that there were a number of races he wanted to ride before retirement and then all of the sudden he was done.
 
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ChrisE said:
Macroadie said it better than I ever could, and that is my position. Mac I don't think your post is unsubstantiated at all if one employs logic, though he may want to re-examine his take since we agree. :D

My only problem with his take is the "all Grand Tours" analogy, which is not the case (especially the Giro). My take on that would be that LA didn't ride those tours thus they weren't showcased and a cash cow. I would bet, though we have no way of telling, if LA consistently rode those other tours things would have been quieter in them. Of course we will never know.

The examples you point out RR were pre LA reign with Pantani, and Ullrich was caught OOC. So, they don't really apply to my POV which is there was a blanket of cover shown by all the top riders in the TdF during 99-2005 for the reasons Mac wrote. I do not know how many others had tests thrown out...I just look at facts and the fact is nobody of any "value" got tossed in the TdF during those years. Nobody.

What FL says I am sure has merit, but FL was not on other teams so is unaware of the blatancy of others on their team busses or in private. TH said the peloton in a whole shared info to mass avoid detection. How blatant can somebody be in an atmosphere like that?

Now, since you think LA was the only one that had advanced notice, special treatment, etc. then which one of the following do you prescribe to?

1) The others were clean in the tour
2) The others were lucky not to get caught at the tour, contrary to other top contenders in other GTs.

It's either one of those, RR.

You are not making any sense Chris. The fact that Ullirich was caught by an OOC is important....don't you think that he would have liked advanced notice so he could have avoided the test like Lance did? Pantani also matters, unless you are saying that the UCI only ignored everyone once Lance started winning.

The results of the retro testing of the 99 samples say a lot. After Festina riders were scared. It shows in the test results. The vast majority of the positives were Armstrong's, who had no such concerns.

So tell us, how many riders gave "Donations" to the UCI? How many riders were partners with Verburggen in billion $$ business deals?
 
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ChrisE said:
How were things different? Per FL, LA was warned not to use EPO by Ferrari in 2001 before he got popped. Why was he warned if he had immunity? No way Ferrari was out of that loop.

Yes, I believe that was made to go away but how many other times did that happen with others? Who knows, but I think it would be a stretch to say all the other TdF players were playing less with PED's over those 7 years and that is the reason they didn't get caught. Or, they got lucky or whatever. Again, the voices from the inside (TH and FL) say zero about what you are implying, and it was nearly 3 years after he left in 2001 that TH got hit, and 2after FL left when he got popped after he admitted he doped in 2005. TH in 2003 for example was riding way over his head. Did they forget the protocol all of a sudden after that large amount of time? Lucky?

People are drawing conclusions because of the known payouts and LA hate as IWCiJ admits, vs what they see before their eyes. LA left and shyt hit the fan, from FL to the Chicken to Kohl and Ricco 2006-08. All's quiet on on the TdF front in 2009, and Wigans places 4th lol. 2010 is quiet as well until the leak of AC's positive, where there is ample evidence the UCI was trying to sweep that under the rug. Where is AC's receipt? If not, what is the connection???? I wonder.

Also, why did LA go to blood doping if he had immunity? Why go through all that hassle...just use EPO.

I'm not sure LA had immunity the way you are describing it. I would bet it was more like well timed help. At any rate the payoff to make the EPO positive "go away" may have cost as much as $500,000 according to Sylvia Schenk. So, something undetectable may have been a better way to go and probably still is today.

Additionally, LA may have had access to PEDS that others were not even aware of. The first time I ever heard the term "Actovegin" was courtesy of USPS (as an example) and there's the whole HemAssist thing. In the early 2000's I can imagine the search being on for something even better than EPO.

Finally, all's (more) quiet nowadays because the passport must be protected by the UCI. All McQuaid's chips are on the table. When he makes declarations that there will be no future AAF's in future TdF's then he probably has his neck stuck out pretty far, no?
 
May 18, 2009
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Race Radio said:
You are not making any sense Chris. The fact that Ullirich was caught by an OOC is important....don't you think that he would have liked advanced notice so he could have avoided the test like Lance did? Pantani also matters, unless you are saying that the UCI only ignored everyone once Lance started winning.

The results of the retro testing of the 99 samples say a lot. After Festina riders were scared. It shows in the test results. The vast majority of the positives were Armstrong's, who had no such concerns.

So tell us, how many riders gave "Donations" to the UCI? How many riders were partners with Verburggen in billion $$ business deals?

I'm not making any sense? You are the one saying LA had special protection above all others, while conveniently ignoring the lack of positives of other doped competitors in the tour during those years. Why won't you answer why? And why do you insist on sticking your neck out that he was the only one with payoffs or the UCI sweeping positives under the rug? How did Rumsas for example, the most blatant of all, skate testing? All you know is what is in the news and leaked from SCA, regardless of your reputation. FL and TH are not supporting what you are saying, ie LA had special protection and could dope more than others. The media and leaks are not the line in the sand where the truth is drawn, and the fact is nobody tested positive during those years in the tour. Nobody. You are the one not making sense my friend, blinded only by your hate for LA instead of using your brain.

JU testing positive, with a drug that is not a PED 6 months before the tour, has zero impact on this issue. It has zero impact on the bottom line which is the popularity of the sport in a huge market. JU getting popped for EPO during a rest day while 4 minutes down to LA is a big issue, because then it brings on the question of LA beating doped riders clean and totally impacts the fairy tale and the cash flow. I cannot make it any more clearer than this RR.

And BINGO. Yes, I am saying the UCI etal started covering up after LA started winning, thus Pantani in the 99 Giro (again, I am talking about the tour) makes no difference to me in this argument.

The vast majority of the ones tested in 99 were LA's because the vast majority of LA's pis were the ones that were tested in that tour. He was in yellow the majority of the time, and won I believe 4 stages. Do you know who the other positives were? No, so you should probably back off from this line, no offense. How many times was Zulle tested? Escartin? Verinque? And how many vials of their pis was retro tested? You don't know that answer for sure but you do know the answer is miniscule compared to LA, if they were tested at all. You are smarter than this and you know this.
 

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Race Radio said:
So tell us, how many riders gave "Donations" to the UCI? How many riders were partners with Verburggen in billion $$ business deals?

How many riders had mega million dollar business deals with many sponsers?
How many riders had an "Effect"? Jan Effect? Marco Effect?

Only Lance.

How many riders survived cancer with a altered physique?
How many riders had a lazer-like focus on the TdF?
How many paid strict attention to their diets and slept in tents?
How many had the 20+ other TdF Champion of Champion Attributes?

Only Lance.

How many riders won 7 TdFs In A Row?
(A streak that NO amount of money could buy btw)

Only Lance.
 
Race Radio said:
The results of the retro testing of the 99 samples say a lot. After Festina riders were scared. It shows in the test results. The vast majority of the positives were Armstrong's, who had no such concerns.

No they weren’t. LA had more positives than anyone else, but his total of 6 (maybe 8-9) was less than half of all the positives. And remember, a) as the MJ during much of the race, LA was tested probably more than anyone else; b) not all B samples from that Tour were analyzed; and c) Ressiott did not try to determine the IDs of all the analyzed samples he might have had access to. He was primarily interested in LA; the other announced positives were mostly to show that he wasn’t totally focused on one rider from the outset (though of course he was).

So I don’t buy the notion that everyone but LA was afraid to take EPO in 1999. Why should they be, when there still was no test? All Festina had taught them was to be more careful about hiding the physical evidence.

I think there are two assertions here that aren’t being separated very clearly. First, that very few big names tested positive during 99-05. Chris’ point, which I have also made here in the past, is that if LA was protected, it really didn’t figure in his results, since none of his major rivals was busted, anyway (Mayo's treatment an exception). One could argue (and I have here, in the past) that maybe LA’s protection allowed him to dope to a greater degree, that he didn’t have to resort to the carefully timed use of microdoses that other riders did. I think that’s a legitimate possibility, though of course it so far remains unproven. Even now, it’s well known that most dopers, most of the time, don’t get caught.

So it's plausible that LA could have been protected, no one else was, and that the odds were that they were going to get away with it, anyway. But while this interpretation doesn't support Chris, it also doesn't necessarily support the notion that LA's protection was what made the difference in winning the Tours. As Chris also notes, what Floyd and Tyler say is that riders were doping pretty much as they wanted, and with each other's knowledge. Once riders began using self-transfusion, they could blood dope pretty much to the 50% limit. Even now, with the passport, this method is basically indetectable, Ashenden's work, linked here a while ago, emphasizes this point. So unless LA was going well over that limit, I don't see that he was getting much of an advantage. Not unless he was using something like HemAssist or PFCs, we will just have to wait to see if solid evidence of that ever comes out.

The other point is that after LA retired, the dam seemed to burst, with major riders falling all over the place. Why? Was it because, as I think Chris suggests, that there was some protection for all riders, because the ASO didn’t want a bust spoiling the big party? Maybe, but it could also just have been timing. Police started to get involved, hence Puerto, which took down Ulle and Basso. The HBT was developed, which nailed Tyler even before LA retired, and Vino and Kash in 2007. EPO testing become more proactive, so Ricco was caught taking CERA, which he thought was safe. Some teams also seemed to take more responsibility for what their riders were doing, hence Ras was kicked out of the Tour.

Personally, I like the idea that LA knew that trouble was coming, and that’s why he retired. If he hadn’t retired, he would have been odds-on favorite to win the Tour in 2006, so why not continue racing? This really is consistent with his being protected up to then (in which case he was warned that he could no longer be), or that he wasn’t protected.
 
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