Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[fatandfast]

Fatandfast:

You are sycophantly shooting from the hip. You do not have a clue about any of these issues.

if you don't think that most cycling teams are non profits that's ok it's just incorrect. It's a business. I think the women's peanut butter and company original sponsor was the american Peanut farmers another non profit helping create another non profit. Twenty12 is another one non profit benefiting from a non profit. Once you understand that a cycling team is a business it will start to get easier.
If you think that Armstrong is not raking in the deductions from his every action you would be wrong about that also. He can show up at a bike shop and sign t-shirts and make it positive cash flow toward one of his causes.

http://www.teamtwenty12.com
dare you to tell them you see scandal

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Wrong. And that is a large part of his problem

The Menchov connection? The slavs are pretty astute at moving asian and 'bekie goods...

 

[Race Radio]

if you don't think that most cycling teams are non profits that's ok it's just incorrect. It's a business. I think the women's peanut butter and company original sponsor was the american Peanut farmers another non profit helping create another non profit. Twenty12 is another one non profit benefiting from a non profit. Once you understand that a cycling team is a business it will start to get easier.
If you think that Armstrong is not raking in the deductions from his every action you would be wrong about that also. He can show up at a bike shop and sign t-shirts and make it positive cash flow toward one of his causes.

http://www.teamtwenty12.com
dare you to tell them you see scandal

You do realize that the Peanut butter team is not Disco/Postal right? Ever heard of COMPANIES called Tailwind? CSE?

 

[Race Radio]

The Menchov connection? The slavs are pretty astute at moving asian and 'bekie goods...

Central Europe has controlled this trade for a while. Most stolen from hospitals and warehouses. The challenge is these products come with lot number and serial number, easy to trace and connect to a larger organization.

Ferrari is in big trouble

 

[Semper Fidelis]

You do realize that the Peanut butter team is not Disco/Postal right? Ever heard of COMPANIES called Tailwind? CSE?

Who is this tailwinds of which you speak.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Who is this tailwinds of which you speak.

Man, that's a sad effort Glenn...

@RR, I've been waiting for this connection to be exposed. The 'old school' has always been the artery (not that I can blame them, beats working in the mine).

Can't wait for the 'bloc' to come clean...

 

[Cimacoppi49]

First off co-mingling money is legal. Tax evasion is not legal but given the fact that I am sure Armstrong probably didn't even use his own hand to sign any tax return it's going to be a stretch to show that he did something worthy of jail.

If by co-mingling funds you me using foundation assets for personal expenses, you are wrong. Armstrong doesn't have to sign a tax return to be involved in fraud. Fraud can be proved many ways.

If he did receive a service for money from Ferrari or his son, again it is so far legal. Smart, no way.

That all depends on the "services" and any products provided and how they were paid for. Each aspect of that could be illegal, but you apparently have some indie knowledge that Lance and Ferrari & Son are all on the up and up---or do you?


There appears to be this big cloud of nothing over the Doctors head. Scumbg, for sure, non grata in the Italian cycling fed..absolutely. Be real if he avoids that few 100 people associated w the Italian fed he shouldn't have too much trouble. His face on the most wanted poster is only pinned up there and w knowledgeable cycling fans.
Regular people can't pick him out if he were next to them at the market.

A prosecutor can very easily introduce him to the members of a trial jury or to an investigating judge in Europe.


The big American thing Ferrari has going for him is that he was absolved of wrong by everybody but the Italian fed, he is innocent.

Incorrect. Ferrari's case was overturned on appeal due to the expiration of the statute of limitations of the criminal law under which he was prosecuted. The judge at his trial in fact found him guilty. He was NEVER found innocent.

People are saying ghost and shell, but starting a company in Switzerland is legal.

Setting up a corporation for an illegal purpose is a crime, my friend. Presumably, the Euro investigators have some reason to believe that's what happened--unless you know otherwise.



The fact that he continued possibly to dabble in helping Italian bike racers again is for a court to decide. The guy is a twirp no doubt but he is not as notorious as people are making it look.

How much money does one have to make before one is no longer a dabbler? He's been notorious in Europe and in cycling circles here for years--more than a decade.


The fact that he and Lance have man crush on each other like no other is really funny.

Domestic teams like Type1(non profit) and BMC and it affiliation w DKMS are hardly ever even mentioned as possible scandals. It is like Lance has the special sauce for scandal and non-profits. Some research into co-mingled cycle funds in the US may have some surprises for you. Almost everybody is non profit for starters(either (k)(c)(3)). So when you are at this weekends cyclocross and they have beer you should probably wonder who really bought it, or if it's taxed correctly

Non-profit corporations can and do hire employees, contractors and consultants. If the purpose is legit, there is no problem. What's being looked into here is illegal money flow. But really, you DO know all of this don't you?

You must be relatively new to working in Fabiani's Pit. Polish it up or stay under the radar. (Nice pun, eh?)

 

[Anonymous]

First off co-mingling money is legal. Tax evasion is not legal but given the fact that I am sure Armstrong probably didn't even use his own hand to sign any tax return it's going to be a stretch to show that he did something worthy of jail.
If he did receive a service for money from Ferrari or his son, again it is so far legal. Smart, no way. There appears to be this big cloud of nothing over the Doctors head. Scumbg, for sure, non grata in the Italian cycling fed..absolutely. Be real if he avoids that few 100 people associated w the Italian fed he shouldn't have too much trouble. His face on the most wanted poster is only pinned up there and w knowledgeable cycling fans.
Regular people can't pick him out if he were next to them at the market. The big American thing Ferrari has going for him is that he was absolved of wrong by everybody but the Italian fed, he is innocent. People are saying ghost and shell, but starting a company in Switzerland is legal. The fact that he continued possibly to dabble in helping Italian bike racers again is for a court to decide. The guy is a twirp no doubt but he is not as notorious as people are making it look.
The fact that he and Lance have man crush on each other like no other is really funny.

Domestic teams like Type1(non profit) and BMC and it affiliation w DKMS are hardly ever even mentioned as possible scandals. It is like Lance has the special sauce for scandal and non-profits. Some research into co-mingled cycle funds in the US may have some surprises for you. Almost everybody is non profit for starters(either (k)(c)(3)). So when you are at this weekends cyclocross and they have beer you should probably wonder who really bought it, or if it's taxed correctly

I am taking Federal Income Tax Law right now, and can assure you that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. None. You are so far off base that I quit reading the rest of it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Man, that's a sad effort Glenn...

@RR, I've been waiting for this connection to be exposed. The 'old school' has always been the artery (not that I can blame them, beats working in the mine).

Can't wait for the 'bloc' to come clean...

JMB what do you mean by the sad effort? It was a um Joke. Or do you have some predisposition on my post?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I am taking Federal Income Tax Law right now, and can assure you that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. None. You are so far off base that I quit reading the rest of it.

I thought the same thing. Hell if all I have to do is file my tax return without a signature on it and get whatever deduction I want etc. Then it is ON!

 

[fatandfast]

I am taking Federal Income Tax Law right now, and can assure you that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. None. You are so far off base that I quit reading the rest of it.

I will have to allow your tax law student mode to override my never filing a tax return using dozens of accountants, tax law in multiple countries, and as professional traveling athlete, and spokesperson/leader of a number of non-profits.
You may indeed understand how things work better than I do. I have close friends that work at Skadden and Sullivan and Cromwell. I train with them, often discuss cycling issues both on and off the bike.

Lance's problems are a frequent subject. The complexity of his tax return is mind numbing. Revised tax returns, errors and penalties are part of the game. Companies of all kinds are found to have errors in returns, along with mispayments and under payments involving huge sums of money. It happens throughout the tax year and years previous. There are criminal findings from time to time but for the most part it's an apology and a fine. restitution and things just move on. Companies try hard to be accurate but mistakes are made. And presumably the big firms probably screw up because of inaccurate data provided.

Somebody else brought up the point of offshore income exemptions (@110,000 exempt w some residency restrictions). Lance earns so much more than that per year the point of criminality for the misuse of 100k here or there can most times be concluded as a clerical error.

Most bike clubs and teams have some component of non-profit in my experience. The income that is generated from all of Lance's interests are massive. The bike racing part is minor. The selling of old shop clutter 8 or 10 years ago is smaller still. The possible payments to Ferrari and his companies may have some level of misuse of money earmarked for a charity instead of a performance consultant in Switzerland. I would hardly think it will land him in jail. Further it doesn't appear to have a great deal of impact on his fund raising all over the world. From a quick sample he is still in demand as a speaker and icon worldwide.

I think many posters are unaware of how many pro athletes have foundations/non profits that raise money and spend it for a myriad of causes.
Until a couple of years ago a pro racer I know had more than half of his house tax deferred for the use of a dog rescue charity. His mini suv was also primarily used for animal rescue activities even w the Thule racks on the roof. The US tax code is so complicated that there is room for dozens if not 100's of deductions done from software, a cert preparer to top notch accountants and lawyers.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

He didn't sign his tax return, he's not responsible.

What a flipping idiot

 

[MarkvW]

I thought the same thing. Hell if all I have to do is file my tax return without a signature on it and get whatever deduction I want etc. Then it is ON!

Does your unknowing wife get tossed in the slammer because she signed the return that you prepared and filed (but did not sign)?

It is a significant leap from the government using its power to collect back taxes from you to succeessfully prosecuting you for WILLFUL tax evasion.

 

[MarkvW]

You must be relatively new to working in Fabiani's Pit. Polish it up or stay under the radar. (Nice pun, eh?)

Disagree with the haters and have your integrity impugned. What a wonderful way to stimulate a full and open discussion. . . .

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Does your unknowing wife get tossed in the slammer because she signed the return that you prepared and filed (but did not sign)?

It is a significant leap from the government using its power to collect back taxes from you to succeessfully prosecuting you for WILLFUL tax evasion.

X-wife

Why did you have to bring her up with all this anyway.

Somehow I think even if he did not sign the tax returns THAT detail will not determine if the government is successful or not.

 

[Velodude]

I will have to allow your tax law student mode to override my never filing a tax return using dozens of accountants, tax law in multiple countries, and as professional traveling athlete, and spokesperson/leader of a number of non-profits. .....etc., etc., <snip>

Your allegiance is overruling fact and common sense.You have deliberately sidetracked the discussion away from Livestrong transactions concerning your hero.

It appears Armstrong's known autocratic style of management is evident in Livestrong. He allegedly conducts himself as if Livestrong and himself are not two separate entities at law but conjoined at the hip.

Example. Just read the SCA transcript and compare it to the facts. Livestrong made a donation of $1.5m to Indiana University Hospital within days after becoming aware of the Andreu's affidavits on the hospital room conversations. Hence, the hospital stonewalled on identifying the attending doctors present in that hospital room.

Lancie falsely testified he made the donation (not Livestrong) but, again falsely, in advance of his knowledge of the Andreu's affidavits.

The law has the capacity to severely punish charitable foundations and culpable executives if the foundation is managed for the benefit of executives and board members. Governance does not appear to prevail at Livestrong as exemplified in the SCA case. Lance exercises dictatorial control over his own Livestrong fiefdom. The board and auditors (auditors being only local to Austin. Tx not national or international) appear to just ratify and rubber stamp Lance's wishes.

If Livestrong is investigated and Lance and his cronies have been found to have been approving payments of Lance's private expenses with Livestrong funds, executives have been over compensated, Lance has personally profited at the expense of Livestrong in the Demand Media arrangements, etc., the foundation could lose its tax exempt status.

 

[Race Radio]

Does your unknowing wife get tossed in the slammer because she signed the return that you prepared and filed (but did not sign)?
.

Are you saying Kristen is going to prison with Lance?

That kinda thing hanging over your head could make a girl chatty

 

[Race Radio]

snip

You do know that just because you occasionally ride with someone who works at an accountants office it does not make you an accountant? .....right?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Disagree with the haters and have your integrity impugned. What a wonderful way to stimulate a full and open discussion. . . .

I was not impugning his integrity. I was impugning his stupidity. I don't think he's that stupid. Fabiani just needs to get him up to speed.

I used to date an associate at Sullivan and Cromwell and I tried a case with a Skadden alum. They were smarter at those firms 25 years ago.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

X-wife

Why did you have to bring her up with all this anyway.

Somehow I think even if he did not sign the tax returns THAT detail will not determine if the government is successful or not.

My gut tells me that Kristin knows quite a bit and sold her soul to provide for her kids. She will not sell anything if it implicates her in a conspiracy or means her being tried for perjury, unless she is a totally clueless, bimbo in love.

 

[thehog]

My gut tells me that Kristin knows quite a bit and sold her soul to provide for her kids. She will not sell anything if it implicates her in a conspiracy or means her being tried for perjury, unless she is a totally clueless, bimbo in love.

Too late..... she spilled.

Armstrong tried to attend her book launch she refused him the invite.


They rarely speak these days apart from the kid duties...... shes fully aware of ALL of the affairs now and the extent of his cheating.

 

[thehog]

Geez if only the board and exec at Enron knew the "didn't sign the tax return" defense. Maybe even Andersens might still exist!

Maybe those inturns who help out with the accounts will go to jail?

The folly on this forum is astoinshing at times.

My predication that SCA will be his biggest downfall and will cost him the most.

Your allegiance is overruling fact and common sense.You have deliberately sidetracked the discussion away from Livestrong transactions concerning your hero.

It appears Armstrong's known autocratic style of management is evident in Livestrong. He allegedly conducts himself as if Livestrong and himself are not two separate entities at law but conjoined at the hip.

Example. Just read the SCA transcript and compare it to the facts. Livestrong made a donation of $1.5m to Indiana University Hospital within days after becoming aware of the Andreu's affidavits on the hospital room conversations. Hence, the hospital stonewalled on identifying the attending doctors present in that hospital room.

Lancie falsely testified he made the donation (not Livestrong) but, again falsely, in advance of his knowledge of the Andreu's affidavits.

The law has the capacity to severely punish charitable foundations and culpable executives if the foundation is managed for the benefit of executives and board members. Governance does not appear to prevail at Livestrong as exemplified in the SCA case. Lance exercises dictatorial control over his own Livestrong fiefdom. The board and auditors (auditors being only local to Austin. Tx not national or international) appear to just ratify and rubber stamp Lance's wishes.

If Livestrong is investigated and Lance and his cronies have been found to have been approving payments of Lance's private expenses with Livestrong funds, executives have been over compensated, Lance has personally profited at the expense of Livestrong in the Demand Media arrangements, etc., the foundation could lose its tax exempt status.

 

[spetsa]

I will have to allow your tax law student mode to override my never filing a tax return using dozens of accountants, tax law in multiple countries, and as professional traveling athlete, and spokesperson/leader of a number of non-profits.
You may indeed understand how things work better than I do. I have close friends that work at Skadden and Sullivan and Cromwell. I train with them, often discuss cycling issues both on and off the bike.

Lance's problems are a frequent subject. The complexity of his tax return is mind numbing. Revised tax returns, errors and penalties are part of the game. Companies of all kinds are found to have errors in returns, along with mispayments and under payments involving huge sums of money. It happens throughout the tax year and years previous. There are criminal findings from time to time but for the most part it's an apology and a fine. restitution and things just move on. Companies try hard to be accurate but mistakes are made. And presumably the big firms probably screw up because of inaccurate data provided.

Somebody else brought up the point of offshore income exemptions (@110,000 exempt w some residency restrictions). Lance earns so much more than that per year the point of criminality for the misuse of 100k here or there can most times be concluded as a clerical error.

Most bike clubs and teams have some component of non-profit in my experience. The income that is generated from all of Lance's interests are massive. The bike racing part is minor. The selling of old shop clutter 8 or 10 years ago is smaller still. The possible payments to Ferrari and his companies may have some level of misuse of money earmarked for a charity instead of a performance consultant in Switzerland. I would hardly think it will land him in jail. Further it doesn't appear to have a great deal of impact on his fund raising all over the world. From a quick sample he is still in demand as a speaker and icon worldwide.

I think many posters are unaware of how many pro athletes have foundations/non profits that raise money and spend it for a myriad of causes.
Until a couple of years ago a pro racer I know had more than half of his house tax deferred for the use of a dog rescue charity. His mini suv was also primarily used for animal rescue activities even w the Thule racks on the roof. The US tax code is so complicated that there is room for dozens if not 100's of deductions done from software, a cert preparer to top notch accountants and lawyers.

Your story of athlete friends are a dime a dozen, hell I know dozens of idependent contractors who pay good accountants to help with the same issues. Good business. When the money you are protecting was gained from a large amount of fraud, you're a criminal!

 

[Anonymous]

I will have to allow your tax law student mode to override my never filing a tax return using dozens of accountants, tax law in multiple countries, and as professional traveling athlete, and spokesperson/leader of a number of non-profits.
You may indeed understand how things work better than I do. I have close friends that work at Skadden and Sullivan and Cromwell. I train with them, often discuss cycling issues both on and off the bike.

Lance's problems are a frequent subject. The complexity of his tax return is mind numbing. Revised tax returns, errors and penalties are part of the game. Companies of all kinds are found to have errors in returns, along with mispayments and under payments involving huge sums of money. It happens throughout the tax year and years previous. There are criminal findings from time to time but for the most part it's an apology and a fine. restitution and things just move on. Companies try hard to be accurate but mistakes are made. And presumably the big firms probably screw up because of inaccurate data provided.

Somebody else brought up the point of offshore income exemptions (@110,000 exempt w some residency restrictions). Lance earns so much more than that per year the point of criminality for the misuse of 100k here or there can most times be concluded as a clerical error.

Most bike clubs and teams have some component of non-profit in my experience. The income that is generated from all of Lance's interests are massive. The bike racing part is minor. The selling of old shop clutter 8 or 10 years ago is smaller still. The possible payments to Ferrari and his companies may have some level of misuse of money earmarked for a charity instead of a performance consultant in Switzerland. I would hardly think it will land him in jail. Further it doesn't appear to have a great deal of impact on his fund raising all over the world. From a quick sample he is still in demand as a speaker and icon worldwide.

I think many posters are unaware of how many pro athletes have foundations/non profits that raise money and spend it for a myriad of causes.
Until a couple of years ago a pro racer I know had more than half of his house tax deferred for the use of a dog rescue charity. His mini suv was also primarily used for animal rescue activities even w the Thule racks on the roof. The US tax code is so complicated that there is room for dozens if not 100's of deductions done from software, a cert preparer to top notch accountants and lawyers.

That's a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

If Lance is under Federal investigation, you an assure yourself that there are forensic accountants with the IRS that will determine whether he has violated USC 26 section 7201. There is a significant difference between mistakes and purposefully hiding income and assets to support an illegal enterprise. I am guessing that Lance didn't file a tax return that accounted for such things if they did indeed occur. As such, they do not fall within your obfuscatory proclamations. No, that is a different baby all together. You can keep blowing your smoke up the a$$es of everyone else here, but you don't fool me.

 

[MarkvW]

Your story of athlete friends are a dime a dozen, hell I know dozens of idependent contractors who pay good accountants to help with the same issues. Good business. When the money you are protecting was gained from a large amount of fraud, you're a criminal!

So long as you realize that statement is only true inside your own mind!

In the real world, things like "willfulness," "beyond a reasonable doubt," and "a jury of your peers" stand between such grandiose musings and their actualization.