Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[DirtyWorks]

Lying to the cancer community and using them as unwitting dupes to enrich himself as their unwanted and unappointed faith healer is going to have people pretty upset-

We don't know it'll get that far. With such light regulatory enforcement in the U.S. that may not stick.

Besides, it may be a difficult story to tell such that it can be prepared for mass consumption. Lots of stories like that. AIG collapse shenanigans, MERS in American real estate, and so on.

If there's a case, the flow of money and the drugs are probably easier to prosecute.

And remember, Wonderboy's not the mastermind. He's the talent portion. It's why actors/athletes thank their managers/agents. There's an enormously complex business side to the myth that Wonderboy could not have accomplished on his own. Hello, Tailwind principals....

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting how a year ago, polish was denying that Lance doped, asking for proof, arguing all allegations.

Now he's, yeah, lance doped so what. Wonder what hes going to be saying a year down the line about the fraud allegations, using livestrong for his own personal financial gain allegations, intimidating witnesses, and the rest of it.

Money Laundering?
Yeh, so Lance Laundered money...
Everyone does Laundry
Level Playing Field
Lance was just better

Lance must be putting some serious money in your shop for you to keep up the PR

 

[Animal]

I think it's all done out of lurrrrrve.

 

[fatandfast]

We don't know it'll get that far. With such light regulatory enforcement in the U.S. that may not stick.

Besides, it may be a difficult story to tell such that it can be prepared for mass consumption. Lots of stories like that. AIG collapse shenanigans, MERS in American real estate, and so on.

If there's a case, the flow of money and the drugs are probably easier to prosecute.

And remember, Wonderboy's not the mastermind. He's the talent portion. It's why actors/athletes thank their managers/agents. There's an enormously complex business side to the myth that Wonderboy could not have accomplished on his own. Hello, Tailwind principals....

Tailwind and CSE are dope salespeople? Won't get far? People should learn how non-profits work before they start holding Armstrong up as a poster child for mismanaged organizations. Livestrong can rest easy there are 1000's of store front churches and animal rescues in line for the fraud teams to sift through before getting to people with skilled accountants.
If Tailwind got revenue from the sale of drugs a simple audit with today's forensics would probably either find it or raise flags. Unlike drug dealers that buy big homes, cars and bling of all kinds and then when asked about the income source that provided the ability to purchase it, they stumble and get jailed. Armstrong and the Tailwind principals have verified income for many years.

The Nike, Trek,Nissan, Michelob, Radio Shack,ect income would be substantial enough to explain most of Armstrong's assets. His ongoing relationship with Livestrong and others are highly regulated for skimming already. The current format that allows non profits to set exec salary is absurd but it not
Armstrong's fault.
If people want to catch Armstrong doing something wrong it's probably more effective to go after one thing that is the most "obvious". Going after urine tests from a decade ago, or the sale of old bikes and parts, or the illegal sale of drugs, or tax evasion, or embezzlement all at the same time will probably work in his log term benefit by the lack of focus.

If Novitzky uses any of the advise he gets here he will get fired the day he proposes it. "Boss we didn't find enough on the drug king pin thing, the old urine test leads have all dried up""How about we drop all that and go after how poorly run Livestrong is and try and nab Lance on some under the table deals he has going over there"..pause "Jeff you are fired"

 

[Merckx index]

Interesting how a year ago, polish was denying that Lance doped, asking for proof, arguing all allegations.

Now he's, yeah, lance doped so what. Wonder what hes going to be saying a year down the line about the fraud allegations, using livestrong for his own personal financial gain allegations, intimidating witnesses, and the rest of it.

The Seven Sacred Stages in the Devolution of Polish:

1. LA is the greatest rider in history, and he did it all on hard work and orange juice.

2. Of course, he had access to the very best orange juice salesman available. So what? Everyone drinks orange juice, orange juice is perfectly legal.

3. OK, the juice might have been spiked. But there’s no proof that it was.

4. OK, maybe there’s proof that the juice was spiked. But everyone drinks spiked juice, BFD. You can’t indict him for that.

5. OK, maybe he did some things that he can be indicted for, but there’s no proof that he did.

6. OK, maybe he will be indicted, but the public will be outraged if he is. The case will collapse.

7. Several options are available here:

a) OK, he was convicted of something, lots of people are convicted of something, BFD.

b) LA is the most awesome inmate in history! His workouts in the prison yard are legendary! And he does it all on hard work and orange juice.

c) HA, HA, FOOLED YOU! YOU SUCKERS THOUGHT I WAS A FANBOY?!? I WAS JUST KIDDING! YOU GUYS ARE SO GULLIBLE!

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

c) HA, HA, FOOLED YOU! YOU SUCKERS THOUGHT I WAS A FANBOY?!? I WAS JUST KIDDING! YOU GUYS ARE SO GULLIBLE!

This wouldn't surprise me in the least......

Susan

 

[Polish]

Interesting how a year ago, polish was denying that Lance doped, asking for proof, arguing all allegations.

Now he's, yeah, lance doped so what. Wonder what hes going to be saying a year down the line about the fraud allegations, using livestrong for his own personal financial gain allegations, intimidating witnesses, and the rest of it.

Money Laundering?
Yeh, so Lance Laundered money...
Everyone does Laundry
Level Playing Field
Lance was just better

Lance must be putting some serious money in your shop for you to keep up the PR

A year ago I was denying that Lance doped?
Hmmm, I do not recall that....
I do not recall EVER denying that Lance doped.
Do you think Haliburton shot me with a "Forgetfullness" Raygun?
zap zap?

Maybe you could recommend a tinfoil maker so I can make a hat?
And don't say Alcoa lol.
They are in cahoots with Haliburton.
Their alu minium ENHANCES the effect yikes.

Anyway, YOU should realize by now that doping did not transform Lance.
That is as true today as it ever was. More evident today. Obvious.
Doping was just but one arrow in Lance's Quiver of Awesomeness.
Many arrows in that quiver. Doping was just one.
I can list all the attributes/arrows if you like....

 

[Cimacoppi49]

A year ago I was denying that Lance doped?
Hmmm, I do not recall that....
I do not recall EVER denying that Lance doped.
Do you think Haliburton shot me with a "Forgetfullness" Raygun?
zap zap?

Maybe you could recommend a tinfoil maker so I can make a hat?
And don't say Alcoa lol.
They are in cahoots with Haliburton.
Their alu minium ENHANCES the effect yikes.

Anyway, YOU should realize by now that doping did not transform Lance.
That is as true today as it ever was. More evident today. Obvious.
Doping was just but one arrow in Lance's Quiver of Awesomeness.
Many arrows in that quiver. Doping was just one.
I can list all the attributes/arrows if you like....

I thought you knew about this site.
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

 

[Cimacoppi49]

The Seven Sacred Stages in the Devolution of Polish:

1. LA is the greatest rider in history, and he did it all on hard work and orange juice.

2. Of course, he had access to the very best orange juice salesman available. So what? Everyone drinks orange juice, orange juice is perfectly legal.

3. OK, the juice might have been spiked. But there’s no proof that it was.

4. OK, maybe there’s proof that the juice was spiked. But everyone drinks spiked juice, BFD. You can’t indict him for that.

5. OK, maybe he did some things that he can be indicted for, but there’s no proof that he did.

6. OK, maybe he will be indicted, but the public will be outraged if he is. The case will collapse.

7. Several options are available here:

a) OK, he was convicted of something, lots of people are convicted of something, BFD.

b) LA is the most awesome inmate in history! His workouts in the prison yard are legendary! And he does it all on hard work and orange juice.

c) HA, HA, FOOLED YOU! YOU SUCKERS THOUGHT I WAS A FANBOY?!? I WAS JUST KIDDING! YOU GUYS ARE SO GULLIBLE!

I wonder what Lance's prison tattoos will look like.

 

[fatandfast]

I wonder what Lance's prison tattoos will look like.

probably dollar signs, or pictures of all the places he has won something, maybe a world map with stars of race wins, children born and conceived, houses, businesses. Maybe a black dot of where he got caught for a crime, he can get in the chair now in order to get quality ink and wait for the prison black spot

 

[Kretch]

And remember, Wonderboy's not the mastermind. He's the talent portion. It's why actors/athletes thank their managers/agents. There's an enormously complex business side to the myth that Wonderboy could not have accomplished on his own. Hello, Tailwind principals....

+1

As I see it the main cast of characters are as follows:
1. LA - the "talent"
2. BS & TW - the big picture "brains"
3. MF - the technical "brains" part 1
4. JB - the technical "brains" part 2
5. HV - the facilitator
6. CC - the "smoke screen" part 1
7. PL & PS - the very public "smoke screen" part 2.

1, 2 & 3 are in the gun sights.
5 & 6 will get their comeuppance when the trigger is pulled.
7 are already a joke for all but the very neophyte cycling fan.

That leaves JB. He has managed to continue normal operations, create a "super-team"" and has two of the hottest properties in cycling in his stable. In the gifted, but so far unsuccessful, Schlecklette we have the makings of another "talent" getting more desperate as each season passes to fulfil his destiny - cue Robert L. Johnson. The perfect melange of ingredients for LA 2.0 (or should that be 3.0).

What do the learned clinicians think is ahead for JB?

Kretch

 

[Cimacoppi49]

+1

As I see it the main cast of characters are as follows:
1. LA - the "talent"
2. BS & TW - the big picture "brains"
3. MF - the technical "brains" part 1
4. JB - the technical "brains" part 2
5. HV - the facilitator
6. CC - the "smoke screen" part 1
7. PL & PS - the very public "smoke screen" part 2.

1, 2 & 3 are in the gun sights.
5 & 6 will get their comeuppance when the trigger is pulled.
7 are already a joke for all but the very neophyte cycling fan.

That leaves JB. He has managed to continue normal operations, create a "super-team"" and has two of the hottest properties in cycling in his stable. In the gifted, but so far unsuccessful, Schlecklette we have the makings of another "talent" getting more desperate as each season passes to fulfil his destiny - cue Robert L. Johnson. The perfect melange of ingredients for LA 2.0 (or should that be 3.0).

What do the learned clinicians think is ahead for JB?

Kretch

Johan = indicted and extradited to the US.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

probably dollar signs, or pictures of all the places he has won something, maybe a world map with stars of race wins, children born and conceived, houses, businesses. Maybe a black dot of where he got caught for a crime, he can get in the chair now in order to get quality ink and wait for the prison black spot

Don't forget sterile safety pins for doing the art work.

 

[Kretch]

The roof is on fire

Johan = indicted and extradited to the US.

Cima, I'm conflicted. Part of me (the biggest part) wants you to be right - JB is at the core of all that is rotten about the sport. However, 2012 looks like being a bust: the biggest fraud in sporting history (LA et al) about to be exposed; the sports governing body likely to be publicly exposed as completely incompetent if not complicit; cycling's best GT rider about to receive 2 years from CAS and, if you are right, the team of the best flat classics rider and the number two or three GT contender about to be thrown into turmoil.

Perhaps the MFer does need to be burnt to the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th_zlxmddNY

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Cima, I'm conflicted. Part of me (the biggest part) wants you to be right - JB is at the core of all that is rotten about the sport. However, 2012 looks like being a bust: the biggest fraud in sporting history (LA et al) about to be exposed; the sports governing body likely to be publicly exposed as completely incompetent if not complicit; cycling's best GT rider about to receive 2 years from CAS and, if you are right, the team of the best flat classics rider and the number two or three GT contender about to be thrown into turmoil.

Perhaps the MFer does need to be burnt to the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th_zlxmddNY

Take a look at his diatribe of lies directed at Landis.
http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Johan-Bruyneel-addresses-a

 

[Basecase]

When will / Will Lance Armstrong case be resolved?

Or is there even a case?

Where are things at people?

Is there a timeline?

 

[aphronesis]

Take a look at his diatribe of lies directed at Landis.
http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Johan-Bruyneel-addresses-a

season's over and another tough guy speaks. is that what he truly deserves? how many people actually deserve that? in this country alone? and how many have anything to do with cycling relative to all other corporatized professions?

tell me something "cima," while you were doing your public service in manhattan did you honestly dig deep and go after the real hard, corrupt targets or did you have the same hard-line, knuckle-dragging moral stance that you espouse in many of your posts and confine yourself to the easy wins?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

season's over and another tough guy speaks. is that what he truly deserves? how many people actually deserve that? in this country alone? and how many have anything to do with cycling relative to all other corporatized professions?

tell me something "cima," while you were doing your public service in manhattan did you honestly dig deep and go after the real hard, corrupt targets or did you have the same hard-line, knuckle-dragging moral stance that you espouse in many of your posts and confine yourself to the easy wins?

I did what the law and, IMO, justice required. That meant on some occasions civil service workers losing their job and pension because of workplace corruption. It also meant delaying a penalty so a worker wouldn't lose his medical coverage when his son had just been diagnosed with cancer (he was a heroin addict. The break I gave him and his son's remission with treatment got him clean. He was still clean three years later).

As for Johan, he's a liar and has made his deal with the devils of Tailwind. Bend the sucker over (figuratively if you prefer).

 

[aphronesis]

I did what the law and, IMO, justice required. That meant on some occasions civil service workers losing their job and pension because of workplace corruption. It also meant delaying a penalty so a worker wouldn't lose his medical coverage when his son had just been diagnosed with cancer (he was a heroin addict. The break I gave him and his son's remission with treatment got him clean. He was still clean three years later).

As for Johan, he's a liar and has made his deal with the devils of Tailwind. Bend the sucker over (figuratively if you prefer).

point being, there was a lot of character assassination and destruction of livelihood in the city during those years. i doubt the law scratched the surface of it (not to speak of all the ways in which it abetted it).

on topic, bruyneel is a scumbag no doubt, but i don't see how you or many others expect anyone to really care in the end about him or la being accountable for their dealings when you wish the same (seven-year old) callousness upon them. makes your adjudicating system seem a little dubious and arbitrary in its final results.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

point being, there was a lot of character assassination and destruction of livelihood in the city during those years. i doubt the law scratched the surface of it (not to speak of all the ways in which it abetted it).

on topic, bruyneel is a scumbag no doubt, but i don't see how you or many others expect anyone to really care in the end about him or la being accountable for their dealings when you wish the same (seven-year old) callousness upon them. makes your adjudicating system seem a little dubious and arbitrary in its final results.

I think the indictment will make clear the extent to which Johan was involved.

 

[aphronesis]

I think the indictment will make clear the extent to which Johan was involved.

looking back at it, i can't find any part of my post that questions the extent to which bruyneel is/was involved.

it had to do strictly with what you suggested should be his punishment. and if that's what a former civil servant advocates as just supplementary punishment (or justice), why, really, should anyone honestly care that he committed the crimes in the first place.

 

[thehog]

Take a look at his diatribe of lies directed at Landis.
http://video.bicycling.com/video/ATOC-Johan-Bruyneel-addresses-a

Bob Roll doing a wonderful job nodding at Johan knowingly. He looks in love.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

looking back at it, i can't find any part of my post that questions the extent to which bruyneel is/was involved.

it had to do strictly with what you suggested should be his punishment. and if that's what a former civil servant advocates as just supplementary punishment (or justice), why, really, should anyone honestly care that he committed the crimes in the first place.

I know. I'm a terrible person for smiling at the prospect of any of these miscreants obtaining the fringe benefits of prison life. Mea culpa.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Bob Roll doing a wonderful job nodding at Johan knowingly. He looks in love.

Great isn't it. I wonder if Bob helped Lance prepare on those training jaunts in the Smokies.

 

[Velodude]

I think the indictment will make clear the extent to which Johan was involved.

He was up to his neck in it.

Director of Tailwind Sports, the owner of the US Postal cycling team.

According to Sports Illustrated it was Bruyneel's company that was the repository of all US Postal's vehicles, equipment and bikes and would be in the USPS sponsorship funding chain.

According to Floyd Landis, Bruyneel was the day to day adviser to the team on the timing of drug administering.

Again, according to Floyd, Bruyneel informed the premature sale of team bikes during the season was to assist with the team doping program.

I would daresay that Bruyneel would not be risking travel to the US after Popovych was waylaid and interviewed by the Feds.