Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Deagol]

Yes, it does. It would give credence to the myth that there was Grand Tour winning potential. The appearance of a team-wide advanced doping is a reasonable conclusion.

As for whether he had talent or not, that's relative. Talented in a pool of U.S. riders? Sure. Talented in a Worldwide pool of clean riders? Maybe one-day events, but not Grand Tour class.



We know with a great deal of confidence. Carmichael and Wenzel were doping under-23's with who knows what during Armstron'g's time on the team. There were lawsuits about it and Carmichael bought his way out every one of them. A good assembly of damning facts is here: http://bikezilla.blogspot.com/2011/05/chris-carmichael-ignored-lance.html

I find it irksome that Wonderboy's past is treated so vaguely and Carmichael isn't drawn into this mess more deeply.

All good points, particularly about Charmichael. I guess my point was that even if LA did break any records as a junior, that doesn't prove that he was not doping either then or in his later career. I have seen that (being a good junior) used as an explanation that he was "so good" back then than that must somehow prove he never would have needed to dope. My response is that it does not prove that at all..

Back on Charmicael, I've just saw that he is now published as some sort of "fitness author" on one of those magazines they stock on the airlines. Apparently he is now respected in the mainstream? It's a shame that a lot of his past is not made widely known in the public sphere..

 

[masking_agent]

All good points, particularly about Charmichael. I guess my point was that even if LA did break any records as a junior, that doesn't prove that he was not doping either then or in his later career. I have seen that (being a good junior) used as an explanation that he was "so good" back then than that must somehow prove he never would have needed to dope. My response is that it does not prove that at all..

Back on Charmicael, I've just saw that he is now published as some sort of "fitness author" on one of those magazines they stock on the airlines. Apparently he is now respected in the mainstream? It's a shame that a lot of his past is not made widely known in the public shere..

good read, it made me think of Taylor Phinney's progress..Hmmm??

 

[Velodude]

Yes, it does. It would give credence to the myth that there was Grand Tour winning potential. The appearance of a team-wide advanced doping is a reasonable conclusion.

As for whether he had talent or not, that's relative. Talented in a pool of U.S. riders? Sure. Talented in a Worldwide pool of clean riders? Maybe one-day events, but not Grand Tour class.



We know with a great deal of confidence. Carmichael and Wenzel were doping under-23's with who knows what during Armstron'g's time on the team. There were lawsuits about it and Carmichael bought his way out every one of them. A good assembly of damning facts is here: http://bikezilla.blogspot.com/2011/05/chris-carmichael-ignored-lance.html

I find it irksome that Wonderboy's past is treated so vaguely and Carmichael isn't drawn into this mess more deeply.

Interesting in that article relating to one of Carmichael's junior PED victims was Greg Strockwho became a resident doctor at University of Indiana Hospital covering the same period of the Armstrong/Tailwind/SCA tribunal fracas.

That hospital treated LA for his cancer and went mute in identifying the doctors in the LA ward room discussing his past drug use (allegedly in return for a sudden $1.5m donation).

 

[spetsa]

Yes, it does. It would give credence to the myth that there was Grand Tour winning potential. The appearance of a team-wide advanced doping is a reasonable conclusion.

As for whether he had talent or not, that's relative. Talented in a pool of U.S. riders? Sure. Talented in a Worldwide pool of clean riders? Maybe one-day events, but not Grand Tour class.



We know with a great deal of confidence. Carmichael and Wenzel were doping under-23's with who knows what during Armstron'g's time on the team. There were lawsuits about it and Carmichael bought his way out every one of them. A good assembly of damning facts is here: http://bikezilla.blogspot.com/2011/05/chris-carmichael-ignored-lance.html

I find it irksome that Wonderboy's past is treated so vaguely and Carmichael isn't drawn into this mess more deeply.

I think that there is a pretty good chance that you will be hearing all about Chris Carmichael's past as a coach. This time however, the author(s) of the narative will be under oath.

 

[Deagol]

from the link:

"Carmichael settled out of court and had the result sealed. To me the fact that Carmichael made a payoff and that he desperately does not want the details revealed, resounds as a powerful admission of guilt."


I wish they would re-visit this connection with a follow-up piece on 60 Minutes or something like that. There are so many around here (not to far from Colorado Springs) who are into Charmichael... and to think, he was the head of the Springs organizing committe for the prologue of the USA Pro Cyclin Challenge. Most mainstream people/casual fans have no idea who he really is...

 

[masking_agent]

somebody should start digging.. please.. keep digging..

 

[BroDeal]

Back on Charmicael, I've just saw that he is now published as some sort of "fitness author" on one of those magazines they stock on the airlines. Apparently he is now respected in the mainstream? It's a shame that a lot of his past is not made widely known in the public shere..

He has people that protect him. Try posting something about Carmichael's past on Slowtwitch and the owner will delete it and maybe your account as well.

CTS has been spreading money around. There are a lot of people on the receiving end that do not want the truth known.

 

[Deagol]

Charmichael settles with Greg Strock and the results are sealed ?

But...

From VN interviewwith Greg Strock:


“Wenzel represented to Strock that they were going to the other coach to get Strock injected with more of the same substance that had been earlier identified as ‘extract of cortisone.’

The other coach produced a briefcase, placed it on a stand at the end of his bed and opened it. The briefcase was filled with ampoules of drugs and syringes. The coach selected an ampoule and syringe, inserted the needle into the ampoule and drew out a liquid. Strock laid face down on the bed and was injected in the upper part of his buttocks. As Wenzel supervised, the other coach was the last person Strock saw holding the syringe before he was injected.”

You don’t mention the name of the other coach. Do you know who that coach is?

GS: Yes

(and at that point, Strock’s attorney interrupts and clarifies that his client cannot mention the other coach’s name and declined to say why.)

 

[DirtyWorks]

somebody should start digging.. please.. keep digging..

It's all out there and has been for a really long time now. It would be nice if a mainstream media outlet packaged it, but likely not going to happen. What's different now that would attract readers?

How about you do it? The link I gave is a pretty good start. Oh, but you, like most, are waiting for someone else to do it to see what happens.

 

[DirtyWorks]

(and at that point, Strock’s attorney interrupts and clarifies that his client cannot mention the other coach’s name and declined to say why.)

I think you may be reading that wrong. He's not mentioning Carmichael because it likely violates their out of court settlement with the actual article mentioning Wenzel. Any halfway decent attorney would make such an agreement and the money makes it stick.

 

[Deagol]

I think you may be reading that wrong. He's not mentioning Carmichael because it likely violates their out of court settlement with the actual article mentioning Wenzel. Any halfway decent attorney would make such an agreement and the money makes it stick.

"Wenzel represented to Strock that they were going to the other coach ..."

Hmm. It appears to me that this "other coach" is someone besides Wenzel by the way the sentence was written. But, I wasn't there, so..

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Dude needed some high-grade Hemasist... you know very long 2 hour race.....

--

KAPALUA, Hawaii -- Lance Armstrong faded from second to 23rd in the running leg of the XTERRA World Championship, with Austria's Michael Weiss finishing strong to win the off-road triathlon Sunday.

Weiss completed the mile ocean swim, 18.3-mile mountain-bike ride and 6.1-mile trail run in 2 hours, 27 minutes. South Africa's Dan Hugo was second, 33 seconds back, and Eneko Llanos of Spain was third.

Armstrong finished in 2:36:59.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/triathl...-michael-weiss-wins-xterra-world-championship

I mentioned before in a post that LA's run training was not enough or from what I am reading it would not be enough. I would also say that he is not getting in the proper km in the pool or open water either. He will continue to suffer,,, and if he just allowed to enter the ironman that is a crock of ????? especially for those that have to qualify to get a spot.

 

[DirtyWorks]

"Wenzel represented to Strock that they were going to the other coach ..."

Hmm. It appears to me that this "other coach" is someone besides Wenzel...

The un-named is Carmichael. Do you think Strock's lawyer is doing another coach a favor by cutting Strock off? Trial lawyers doing their potential or real adversaries favors isn't really a common occurrence. Or, maybe peace and love just broke out all at once all over the place in that interview?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I mentioned before in a post that LA's run training was not enough or from what I am reading it would not be enough. I would also say that he is not getting in the proper km in the pool or open water either. He will continue to suffer,,, and if he just allowed to enter the ironman that is a crock of ????? especially for those that have to qualify to get a spot.

Winning was never the point. The point of the trip was to get paid to appear. A Professional celebrity doing his job. Does that violate the myth-making story Polish, Glenn?

The million dollar question: Did the deal enrich the promoter?

 

[Deagol]

The un-named is Carmichael. Do you think Strock's lawyer is doing another coach a favor by cutting Strock off? Trial lawyers doing their potential or real adversaries favors isn't really a common occurrence. Or, maybe peace and love just broke out all at once all over the place in that interview?

The impression I got was that the settlement between Strock and CC was that he (Strock) could not mentioned CC by name and therefore he and his attorney simply referred to CC as "the Other Coach".

Isn't that what my post says ?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

The impression I got was that the settlement between Strock and CC was that he (Strock) could not mentioned CC by name and therefore he and his attorney simply referred to CC as "the Other Coach".

Isn't that what my post says ?

Anyone know if Strock or Charmichael were called before the Grand Jury?

 

[MarkvW]

The un-named is Carmichael. Do you think Strock's lawyer is doing another coach a favor by cutting Strock off? Trial lawyers doing their potential or real adversaries favors isn't really a common occurrence. Or, maybe peace and love just broke out all at once all over the place in that interview?

Looks like Strock is just living up to his end of a nondisclosure agreement.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The impression I got was that the settlement between Strock and CC was that he (Strock) could not mentioned CC by name and therefore he and his attorney simply referred to CC as "the Other Coach".

Isn't that what my post says ?

Yeah, I missed that. How a myth got built on top of a set of obvious doping facts is still a sore point for me. It goes to show you how many people are ready and willing to pretend despite the facts telling them otherwise.

Polish and Glenn I'm looking at you...

 

[spetsa]

Anyone know if Strock or Charmichael were called before the Grand Jury?

Unless Novitski is the person some here want to think he is, my
money is on yes. If it is about the money, I would hate to have done business with LA.

 

[Polish]

Hard to chose what is more awesome:
Setting the TT record as a young teen in New Mexico
OR
Being the fastest 40 year old Pro at EXTERRA World's.

Of course, niether of those is as awesome as
Winning the US National ITT and TTT Crowns as a 17 year old Junior
OR
Standing on the Final Podium in Paris at age 38.

But none of those are as awesome as
OneTwoThreeFourFiveSixSeven in a Row at the Tour de France!
Duh lol.

Anyway, those TT wins are historically interesting.
I mean, was Lance using aero bars back then?
I would think the US was one of the first nations to use aero bars in the JR Nationals. Maybe THE first nation to allow aero bars?
I say this because of the Tri Athlete influence back then.

I still stand by my assertion that Lance himself was largely responsible for bringing aero bars into the Pro Peloton.
Lance rode them before Lemond right?
Funny, I started a thread showing pictures of Lance using aero bars in 1987.
Good thread until it was locked...
Now I can not even find it to link.
Threads been deleted?
Oh well, you will have to trust me - it was a good thread lol.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He has people that protect him. Try posting something about Carmichael's past on Slowtwitch and the owner will delete it and maybe your account as well.

CTS has been spreading money around. There are alot of people on the receiving end that do not want the truth known.

You betcha.

I posted this before - which brings together all the links, including Carmichael Training Systems.

...
Just as a small taste to how much it was cozy in USAC.

Lisa Voight was CEO of USAC from 1993 - was she any good at what she did? Well according to this article:

While Voight continued as the nominal CEO of USAC, Johnson was actually running it inasmuch as Weisel had financial control of the organization and Lisa Voight had negligible leadership ability -- a nice lady who never should have been put in that position. Johnson then proceeded to effectively merge USAC and USACDF though they pretended to still be separate organizations.

Voight handed in her resignation as she was due to have twins in May 2002 - what did USAC do?
They accepted ..... and immediately then hired her as Senior advisor for Olympic and international relations, at a cost of $100,000 per year.

The new CEO Gerard Bisceglia was allowed renegotiate her contract in Nov 02but Voight resigned saying, “I’m focused on taking care of my two daughters now, and I really can’t be working full time.”

But don't feel too bad for her - as her husband is Craig Griffin who at the time worked as a coach in Carmichael Training Systems.

What wonderful webs they weaved.

So, what did the UCI think of all this?
Why in late 2004 they put her on their "Ethics Commission" of course.

 

[MacRoadie]

I still stand by my assertion that Lance himself was largely responsible for bringing aero bars into the Pro Peloton.
Lance rode them before Lemond right?
Funny, I started a thread showing pictures of Lance using aero bars in 1987.

Funny, Lance using aero bars in 1987, in triathlons...shocking. Must have been the only one out there. Definitely worthy of it's own thread and quite a mystery as to why such a valuable thread would disappear.

LeMond riding aero bars on his way to winning the 1989 TdF, three years before Armstrong even turned pro, and a year before a 19 year old Armstrong stopped riding tri's and switched to the road.

 

[masking_agent]

Hard to chose what is more awesome:
Setting the TT record as a young teen in New Mexico
OR
Being the fastest 40 year old Pro at EXTERRA World's.

Of course, niether of those is as awesome as
Winning the US National ITT and TTT Crowns as a 17 year old Junior
OR
Standing on the Final Podium in Paris at age 38.

But none of those are as awesome as
OneTwoThreeFourFiveSixSeven in a Row at the Tour de France!
Duh lol.

Anyway, those TT wins are historically interesting.
I mean, was Lance using aero bars back then?
I would think the US was one of the first nations to use aero bars in the JR Nationals. Maybe THE first nation to allow aero bars?
I say this because of the Tri Athlete influence back then.

I still stand by my assertion that Lance himself was largely responsible for bringing aero bars into the Pro Peloton.
Lance rode them before Lemond right?
Funny, I started a thread showing pictures of Lance using aero bars in 1987.
Good thread until it was locked...
Now I can not even find it to link.
Threads been deleted?
Oh well, you will have to trust me - it was a good thread lol.

really ? Lance used aero bars before LeMond ? Wow ? That's re-writing the history books for me as local media as I remember discussed it in '89 with LeMond's win over Fignon. I'm dying to see the pics. Google here i come..

 

[Cimacoppi49]

really ? Lance used aero bars before LeMond ? Wow ? That's re-writing the history books for me as local media as I remember discussed it in '89 with LeMond's win over Fignon. I'm dying to see the pics. Google here i come..

Boone Lennon must be in shock.

 

[Oldman]

Hard to chose what is more awesome:
Setting the TT record as a young teen in New Mexico
OR
Being the fastest 40 year old Pro at EXTERRA World's.

Of course, niether of those is as awesome as
Winning the US National ITT and TTT Crowns as a 17 year old Junior
OR
Standing on the Final Podium in Paris at age 38.

But none of those are as awesome as
OneTwoThreeFourFiveSixSeven in a Row at the Tour de France!
Duh lol.

Anyway, those TT wins are historically interesting.
I mean, was Lance using aero bars back then?
I would think the US was one of the first nations to use aero bars in the JR Nationals. Maybe THE first nation to allow aero bars?
I say this because of the Tri Athlete influence back then.

I still stand by my assertion that Lance himself was largely responsible for bringing aero bars into the Pro Peloton.
Lance rode them before Lemond right?
Funny, I started a thread showing pictures of Lance using aero bars in 1987.
Good thread until it was locked...
Now I can not even find it to link.
Threads been deleted?
Oh well, you will have to trust me - it was a good thread lol.

Polish,
check my previous list of junior riders. Any of them could beat Lance if he was clean. Many knew the facts then; that the USACycling class he came from was not. Period. They knew it then and you know it now.