Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[JRTinMA]

As stridently as I express opinions on doping, even I don't believe that.

There are certain, centuries old, organizations that think all humans are sinners. Are you casting the first rock, here?

You don't like Frankie. Ok, we get it. How about you try and be honest, instead of trying to smear him?

Trying to typecast Frankie as an equal amongst those who claim to have never tested positive is just going to make you look more foolish.

Start with the fact that when confronted, Frankie didn't lie about it. He didn't establish an exclusive with Ferrari. He didn't set up a charity as a false-front.

Dave.

I just thought he was dull as an interviewer on Verses. Somebody else mentioned respect and then this whole doping thing opened up. For what its worth he's better than Roll and Ventura but that's like being the tallest midget.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Broke omerta?!? Frankie certainly didn't perjure himself in the SCA testimony, for that we can thank Betsy. Frankie came clean after the SCA documents were released in 2006 when he had no choice. Yeah, he broke omerta...

You are showing that you have a poor grasp of doping and now the SCA case.

The SCA documents that were released had nothing to do with Frankie - the only reason we would ever know that Frankie doped was because he himself made that information available.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Broke omerta?!? Frankie certainly didn't perjure himself in the SCA testimony, for that we can thank Betsy. Frankie came clean after the SCA documents were released in 2006 when he had no choice. Yeah, he broke omerta...

So what's your problem with him then? Do you think that the only "cheaters" are the ones who either failed a test or admitted to doping?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I just thought he was dull as an interviewer on Verses. Somebody else mentioned respect and then this whole doping thing opened up. For what its worth he's better than Roll and Ventura but that's like being the tallest midget.

So, you don't respect midgets either?

 

[Race Radio]

Broke omerta?!? Frankie certainly didn't perjure himself in the SCA testimony, for that we can thank Betsy. Frankie came clean after the SCA documents were released in 2006 when he had no choice. Yeah, he broke omerta...

Had no choice? What are you talking about? There was nothing that forced him to admit anything. He had an interview with the NYT, she asked and instead of lying like many others he told the truth. Nothing forced him to. Nothing

 

[Race Radio]

I just thought he was dull as an interviewer on Verses. Somebody else mentioned respect and then this whole doping thing opened up. For what its worth he's better than Roll and Ventura but that's like being the tallest midget.

Frankie strength is as a race commentator. The few times he was allowed in the mode he was excellent. He was not talk down to the viewer like the rest but would talk high level tactics. Unfortunately Versus chooses to tailor their broadcast to fans of one rider who watch one race a year and have no idea what a crosswind can do or what an echelon is.

 

[JRTinMA]

So what's your problem with him then? Do you think that the only "cheaters" are the ones who either failed a test or admitted to doping?

I just thought he sucked on Verses tour coverage. I will entertain your dumb question as well, no. Based on your comment above I see what's coming next, don't worry I won't attack your hero LA. I've heard the never failed a drug test babble many times. Sorry fanboy, he actually failed 7 tests, he's a doper too.

 

[JRTinMA]

Had no choice? What are you talking about? There was nothing that forced him to admit anything. He had an interview with the NYT, she asked and instead of lying like many others he told the truth. Nothing forced him to. Nothing

You seriously don't think the pending release of the SCA testimony made him come clean? It smells a little fishy to me but I will defer to you, you certainly have proven you can get Betsy on the forum when challenged.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I just thought he sucked on Verses tour coverage. I will entertain your dumb question as well, no. Based on your comment above I see what's coming next, don't worry I won't attack your hero LA. I've heard the never failed a drug test babble many times. Sorry fanboy, he actually failed 7 tests, he's a doper too.

You're the fanboy, fanboy.

 

[Race Radio]

You seriously don't think the pending release of the SCA testimony made him come clean? It smells a little fishy to me but I will defer to you, you certainly have proven you can get Betsy on the forum when challenged.

What do you mean "Pending release"? The SCA testimony was public 4-5 months prior to Frankie admitting anything.

 

[JRTinMA]

What do you mean "Pending release"? The SCA testimony was public 4-5 months prior to Frankie admitting anything.

He testified LA admitted to doping in the SCA case. I respect him coming clean but he would have to be a scumbag to do anything else. He testified about another riders doping in SCA, had he not admitted his own he would be scum. I respect what he did but he had little choice but to admit his own at that point.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He testified LA admitted to doping in the SCA case. I respect him coming clean but he would have to be a scumbag to do anything else. He testified about another riders doping in SCA, had he not admitted his own he would be scum. I respect what he did but he had little choice but to admit his own at that point.

You must have forgotten that you wrote this earlier......

You always have a choice doc, many riders have made the right one. I don't look at dopers as good or bad either which was my point, some do obviously. One thing for certain though, all dopers are cheaters and that says a lot about their character.

......As you say, you always have a choice - and FA chose to admit his own doping, which would never have come out, as inn that NYT piece where he admitted it another rider chose (<that word again) to remain anonymous.

So, you don't look at dopers as "good or bad" yet you look at those who don't admit to their doping as "scum".

Also - you haven't answered my questions on what you claimed doping says "a lot about their characters" or what RRs agenda is?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

He testified LA admitted to doping in the SCA case. I respect him coming clean but he would have to be a scumbag to do anything else. He testified about another riders doping in SCA, had he not admitted his own he would be scum. I respect what he did but he had little choice but to admit his own at that point.

Okay... So, you think Frankie sucks on TV. Fair enough.

The bolded is so convoluted and pointless, I just had to point it out. Who's scum, and why?

 

[JRTinMA]

You must have forgotten that you wrote this earlier......

......As you say, you always have a choice - and FA chose to admit his own doping, which would never have come out, as inn that NYT piece where he admitted it another rider chose (<that word again) to remain anonymous.

So, you don't look at dopers as "good or bad" yet you look at those who don't admit to their doping as "scum".

Also - you haven't answered my questions on what you claimed doping says "a lot about their characters" or what RRs agenda is?

What I said was, if FA testified to LA's doping history in the SCA trial then he needed to admit his own. He was left with no choice but to admit his doping history. Surely LA or one of his minions would have leaked FA's past.

To the bold, you twist my words as usual. I said if he only testified and didn't come clean that he would be scum. He didn't do that now did he doc? He came clean so how is it that I said he was scum?

Finally to your last questions. I think I can put this in a simple format you can understand, don't trust a cheater and all dopers are cheats. That said if you feel they have fully made amends then give them a chance but very few actually make amends. To help with this think of some dopers who came clean and pretended to make amends but went right back to doping. Lastly, I can only speculate on RRs agenda, if you want to know his agenda you should ask him.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What I said was, if FA testified to LA's doping history in the SCA trial then he needed to admit his own. [B/] He was left with no choice but to admit his doping history. Surely LA or one of his minions would have leaked FA's past[/B].

Why would LA (or one of his mob) leak FAs doping? They were busy telling everyone that the USPS team was Snow White.
You also obviously forget LA's remarks after the NYT piece "Armstrong reacts angrily to Andreu confession"

To the bold, you twist my words as usual. I said if he only testified and didn't come clean that he would be scum. He didn't do that now did he doc? He came clean so how is it that I said he was scum?

You say I twist your words? Go back and reread what I wrote, I never said you said he was scum.
I was wondering how you think people who don't confess are scum yet people who dope or neither good or bad.

Finally to your last questions. I think I can put this in a simple format you can understand, don't trust a cheater and all dopers are cheats. That said if you feel they have fully made amends then give them a chance but very few actually make amends. To help with this think of some dopers who came clean and pretended to make amends but went right back to doping. Lastly, I can only speculate on RRs agenda, if you want to know his agenda you should ask him.

Ah, nothing simple in your format - how do you work out if a doper (&remember a doper is a cheater and cheaters can't be trusted) has "made amends"?

As for your RR remarks - well, so I am not accused of twisting your words, here is the earlier post....

On this we agree. I care about doping in cycling and a clean sport for the next generation. You have a much broader agenda, or a much more narrow agenda depending on ones perspective. Good luck with that.

..... you didn't speculate, you said "you have a much broader agenda".
If I want to knows RRs agenda, I will ask them - but as it is you who made this remark I will ask you what you believe their agenda to be.

 

[JRTinMA]

Why would LA (or one of his mob) leak FAs doping? They were busy telling everyone that the USPS team was Snow White.
You also obviously forget LA's remarks after the NYT piece "Armstrong reacts angrily to Andreu confession"


You say I twist your words? Go back and reread what I wrote, I never said you said he was scum.
I was wondering how you think people who don't confess are scum yet people who dope or neither good or bad.



Ah, nothing simple in your format - how do you work out if a doper (&remember a doper is a cheater and cheaters can't be trusted) has "made amends"?

As for your RR remarks - well, so I am not accused of twisting your words, here is the earlier post....
..... you didn't speculate, you said "you have a much broader agenda".
If I want to knows RRs agenda, I will ask them - but as it is you who made this remark I will ask you what you believe their agenda to be.

That piece adds nothing to this discussion, its just a deflection. Its about LA lashing out at the NYT not FA. You need to read what you link. Its your call on amends doc, I can't be there to help you every day in life, you just have to decide for yourself, like an adult. I actually said broader or maybe narrower to be accurate. Like I said if you want to know RRs agenda don't ask me, ask him. To the bold, are you implying that RR is more than one person? Like a cartel or something?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That piece adds nothing to this discussion, its just a deflection. Its about LA lashing out at the NYT not FA. You need to read what you link. Its your call on amends doc, I can't be there to help you every day in life, you just have to decide for yourself, like an adult. I actually said broader or maybe narrower to be accurate. Like I said if you want to know RRs agenda don't ask me, ask him. To the bold, are you implying that RR is more than one person? Like a cartel or something?

Again - you stated that "LA or his minions" would leak the info about Frankie. The piece I provided shows that LA would not want that as any implication would reflect badly on him.

My position is quite clear on doping - I'm trying to understand yours, who is good, bad, a cheater or scum.

You are the one to state to RR "You have a broader agenda....." - I am asking you what you believe that is?

Your English lesson for today:
Their
(used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her ): Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch?

 

[D-Queued]

Not sure why we have veared towards Frankie, and his Versus commentary. But, whatever.

As the Versus coverage evolved it appeared that Frankie was increasingly marginalized on the coverage. Not his fault. But, I could see how it would cause someone to question his contribution.

He was pretty much sidelined by Lance - until the 'return of hope'. As I recall, he wasn't allowed anywhere near him. Between the control that Lance exerted, and the fawning inanity from Phil and Paul along with the mispronunciations of Bobke, the viewers were lucky to get a minute out of Frankie over a four hour stage.

Dave.

 

[JRTinMA]

Again - you stated that "LA or his minions" would leak the info about Frankie. The piece I provided shows that LA would not want that as any implication would reflect badly on him.

My position is quite clear on doping - I'm trying to understand yours, who is good, bad, a cheater or scum.

You are the one to state to RR "You have a broader agenda....." - I am asking you what you believe that is?

Your English lesson for today:
Their
(used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her ): Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch?

You make the assumption of what LA would want, I really can't debate you on what you believe an article intends vs what it actually says, its a moving target.

I'm against doping, I guess I have not been clear. I have been very clear that all dopers are cheaters. Never labeled anyone a scum actually.

I did not make that statement about RRs perspective, another twist by you. I said based on "ones" opinion, not based on "my" opinion. This is no mere nuance doc, this is a huge difference in meaning. Again, if you want to know about RR go to him.

No lesson needed, actually that "lesson" does not apply in this case, you are still wrong. That aside, I wasn't calling out your english, that's amateur **** I don't do anymore. I was confused based on how you worded it is all.

Lovely night here in Allston, I'm headed out, good night doc.

 

[Race Radio]

Not sure why we have veared towards Frankie,

It is in the troll manual under "How to derail a thread"

1. LeMond Doped
2. Frankie/Betsy
3. Floyd is a liar
4. If none of these work ask same question over and over

Of course, start each post with "I am not an Armstrong fan but....."

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Frankie strength is as a race commentator. The few times he was allowed in the mode he was excellent. He was not talk down to the viewer like the rest but would talk high level tactics. Unfortunately Versus chooses to tailor their broadcast to fans of one rider who watch one race a year and have no idea what a crosswind can do or what an echelon is.

Agree, he was way better than Bob Troll.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You make the assumption of what LA would want, I really can't debate you on what you believe an article intends vs what it actually says, its a moving target.

Funny, I have no problem debating your 'assumption' that LA and his minions would leak that Frankie doped.

I'm against doping, I guess I have not been clear. I have been very clear that all dopers are cheaters. Never labeled anyone a scum actually.

You made it clear that you were against dopers, I was hoping you could clear up this comment:
"I respect him coming clean but he would have to be a scumbag to do anything else"

I did not make that statement about RRs perspective, another twist by you. I said based on "ones" opinion, not based on "my" opinion. This is no mere nuance doc, this is a huge difference in meaning. Again, if you want to know about RR go to him.

I didn't twist it - in fact I see you are introducing words that you never said - so here is the original

"You have a much broader agenda, or a much more narrow agenda depending on ones perspective." ....
I am asking you what you believe that agenda is? (then I'll ask RR if you were right or not)

No lesson needed, actually that "lesson" does not apply in this case, you are still wrong. That aside, I wasn't calling out your english, that's amateur **** I don't do anymore. I was confused based on how you worded it is all.

Lovely night here in Allston, I'm headed out, good night doc.

Look forward to hearing from you in the morning.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It is in the troll manual under "How to derail a thread"

1. LeMond Doped
2. Frankie/Betsy
3. Floyd is a liar
4. If none of these work ask same question over and over

Of course, start each post with "I am not an Armstrong fan but....."

Oops - sorry I am still running off the 2010 edition of the handbook.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

Oops - sorry I am still running off the 2010 edition of the handbook.

Is it available in Kindle fomat?

 

[mewmewmew13]

Not sure why we have veared towards Frankie, and his Versus commentary. But, whatever.

As the Versus coverage evolved it appeared that Frankie was increasingly marginalized on the coverage. Not his fault. But, I could see how it would cause someone to question his contribution.

He was pretty much sidelined by Lance - until the 'return of hope'. As I recall, he wasn't allowed anywhere near him. Between the control that Lance exerted, and the fawning inanity from Phil and Paul along with the mispronunciations of Bobke, the viewers were lucky to get a minute out of Frankie over a four hour stage.

Dave.

Seems that this evolved when some of us were lamenting that Frankie would be yanked from Tour coverage as he was the only one not invited back by LA when VS and Univ merged. Also, a huge amount of fret (see post #701) maybe because I breathed the words "Frankie" and "Betsy" in the same paragraph.

Now I guess we are back on topic....