Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Digger]

I was blind but now I can see.

http://mattmcginty.posterous.com/the-real-dopers

 

[Granville57]

I was blind but now I can see.

http://mattmcginty.posterous.com/the-real-dopers

You beat me to it! I was just going to post this in the Anti-RR thread.

I don't want to focus on the specific guy behind this piece, but it really does show that previous analogies to cults are not just hyperbole.

You draw inspiration from your "hero"? Great.
You're motivated to make positive changes in your life because of your "hero"? Great.

You're hero's enemies now become your enemies without any rational analyses of the facts? A religion is born.

This is why no rational discussions can take place. The same talking points are repeated ad nauseam, following the narrative that was put forth ages ago. Evil Floyd, evil Greg(g), and on and on and on...

The lack of independent thought is astounding. This is the template that the blind have certainly adopted and will stick with to the end...and way beyond. There's no room for rational discourse, no space for sanity. Ridiculous "facts" are strung together to reinforce their skewed sense of reality. This is a perfect example of someone who is, by all accounts, an otherwise decent person who genuinely feels that a shameful wrong is being directed at a legitimate (in his mind) icon of success, perseverance and leadership. Why wouldn't he defend such a figure?

Once they align themselves with the narrative, reasonable thought is cast aside. All detractors are wrong, in their opinion, regardless of how uniformed and ignorant they reveal themselves to be.

The only word I'm left with is, "sad."

 

[thehog]

I was blind but now I can see.

http://mattmcginty.posterous.com/the-real-dopers

This is the problem. This guy truly believes. The problem is at source. Too many people bought into this cult and they've got no where to run. This is the real damage that Armstrong has created. Innocent and vulnerable people converted into rabid dogs. Its sad to watch. And now Armstrong will abandon them all...

 

[MacRoadie]

I was blind but now I can see.

http://mattmcginty.posterous.com/the-real-dopers

Unfortunately, Bill Strickland is now in the same boat as Floyd Landis who pretends he's doing a noble thing after extorting millions from supporters with lies for four years and filing a whistleblower lawsuit that stands to make him millions more.

Whether Lance doped is neither here nor there

All that needs to be said about that article...

 

[Hugh Januss]

I was blind but now I can see.

http://mattmcginty.posterous.com/the-real-dopers

Too much good.............too many people..........
If Phil Ligget piped up tomorrow and said "you know, Lance really fooled me all this time, he really is a doper and a liar" folks like this who used to hang on his every word would simply say "oh what does that stupid furriner know anyway".

 

[Andynonomous]

This is the problem. This guy truly believes. The problem is at source. Too many people bought into this cult and they've got no where to run. This is the real damage that Armstrong has created. Useful idiots converted into rabid dogs. Its sad to watch. And now Armstrong will abandon them all...

There, fixed that for you.

 

[Anonymous]

This is the problem. This guy truly believes. The problem is at source. Too many people bought into this cult and they've got no where to run. This is the real damage that Armstrong has created. Innocent and vulnerable people converted into rabid dogs. Its sad to watch. And now Armstrong will abandon them all...

]
the guy is also deleting comments.

I posted a very long comment stating that while he was entitled to his opinion he was wrong about the most tested athlete and I went on to list the USADA tests, UCI/WADA tests and also details for Zabel etc.

This was done under my own name, and yet he deleted it. Apparently " your comment was also short on the full facts. "

A blogger that deletes all comments that dont co-incide with his, however well they are constructed loses all credibility.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

]
the guy is also deleting comments.

I posted a very long comment stating that while he was entitled to his opinion he was wrong about the most tested athlete and I went on to list the USADA tests, UCI/WADA tests and also details for Zabel etc.

This was done under my own name, and yet he deleted it. Apparently " your comment was also short on the full facts. "

A blogger that deletes all comments that dont co-incide with his, however well they are constructed loses all credibility.

Its ok Dim - here is your post followed by this guys reply and I will add his justification for deleting comments below it.

FROM Dimspace (Twitter)
Im not going to critisize the content of your blog, we clearly have different opinions but I do believe everyone is entitled to their own opionions.
However,
You would put forward a compelling argument for your support of Armstrong with the exception of one line.

"The most tested athlete in history"

A line that is simply not true and by including it you immediately bring the entire article into question.

Lance was tested approximately 85 times between 1999 and 2005. These figures come direct from WADA tests, UCI tests, and USADA tests and that figure is indisputable.

USADA Tests>
2001 - 2
2002 - 1
2003 - 1
2004 - 5
2005 - 3

UCI Tests>
1999 : 15 contrôles urinaires.
2000 : 12 contrôles urinaires.
2001 : 10 contrôles urinaires.
2002 : 9 contrôles urinaires.
2003 : 9 contrôles urinaires.
2004 : 8 contrôles urinaires.

And then additional tests for wearing yellow and stage wins. Around 85-100 tests in all.

During that time Marion Jones had 180 tests (and never tested positive)

USADA tests between 1999 and 2010
Lance Armstrong 22
Chris Horner 31
George Hincapie 38
levi Leipheimer 40
Kirsten Armstrong 66

So hes not even the most tested Armstrong by USADA.

Take for instance Eric Zabel - 200 stage wins in his career, thats 200 TESTS, plus a test everytime he wore a leaders jersey, (Zabel won a total of 9 points jerseys in his career).

You are welcome to your opinion, but that one line is simply not true. It was a myth spread by Armstrong based on a statement at the height of his career when he said "Im (probably) the most tested athlete in the world (Right now)" And has been jumped on by Armstrong supporters.

Have your opinion, fine, but your opinion means a lot less and is far less convincing when you include a defence that is clearly a myth.

The reply to your comment:

Matt McGinty responded:

Dimspace- and you would make a better argument if your "analysis" included all the tests from the AFLD ( French anti-doping) which is not publically recorded as the uci and AFLD have long done parallel testing. In fact, Lance lived in Fance for some time and raced often in france outside of just the Tour. The AFLD tested Lance as well at every stage win and every yellow jersey with no consideration for random and out of competition testing. You do the math. Thanks for your comment, but your analysis is just as short on full fact as my opinion.
Steve- I said based on feedback from talking and interaction with survivors. Every single one I have talked to, outside of Livesrong as it's not the only organization I work with, finds it morally wrong to toss the term "cancer" to explain a person or a thing, especially fellow survivors. It's just wrong and that's my opinion. Your entitled to your own. Remember: this is my personal blog, not a editorial piece so this reflects my opinion. Thanks for your comment.

Justification for removing Dims comment:

Matt McGinty responded:

The anonymous people are getting deleted. If you want to put your REAL name on a post, great, if not, you're gone. This is my personal blog. If the cowards with multiple anonymous Twitter accounts want a voice, save that for the Bicycling.com comment board and Twitter. I don't entertain it here.

 

[Digger]

Dimspace- and you would make a better argument if your "analysis" included all the tests from the AFLD ( French anti-doping) which is not publically recorded as the uci and AFLD have long done parallel testing. In fact, Lance lived in Fance for some time and raced often in france outside of just the Tour. The AFLD tested Lance as well at every stage win and every yellow jersey with no consideration for random and out of competition testing. You do the math. Thanks for your comment, but your analysis is just as short on full fact as my opinion.

................

 

[Dr. Maserati]

................

Its a pity they will never know that AFLD weren't actually set up until 2006 and hadn't anything to do with the Tour until 2008.

 

[DirtyWorks]

]
the guy is also deleting comments.

I posted a very long comment stating that while he was entitled to his opinion he was wrong about the most tested athlete and I went on to list the USADA tests, UCI/WADA tests and also details for Zabel etc.

This was done under my own name, and yet he deleted it. Apparently " your comment was also short on the full facts. "

A blogger that deletes all comments that dont co-incide with his, however well they are constructed loses all credibility.

I saw that comment. Excellent work. Just facts. According to another comment, it was deleted because it was 'anonymous.' I'm posting the comment with contact info.

I tried posting your reply. The entry is no longer accepting comments. I tried it with two different browsers. The 'post' button just hangs.

Great.

 

[MacRoadie]

No Ironman for Armstrong?

Armstrong looks set to miss Kona triathlon world championships

Hmmmm. Says he will run Chicago marathon, so it can't be a physical thing...

 

[Race Radio]

Armstrong looks set to miss Kona triathlon world championships

Hmmmm. Says he will run Chicago marathon, so it can't be a physical thing...

Purely a negotiating ploy. Which ever race gives him the largest donation to his legal defense fund.....err, appearance fee, "wins"

 

[D-Queued]

Purely a negotiating ploy. Which ever race gives him the largest donation to his legal defense fund.....err, appearance fee, "wins"

But how will the folks in Kona ever learn about cancer?

Dave.

 

[veganrob]

I was blind but now I can see.

http://mattmcginty.posterous.com/the-real-dopers

Wow, this McGinty dude is seriously delusional.

He also needs a little help on his spelling and grammar. Sheesh

 

[Kennf1]

Armstrong looks set to miss Kona triathlon world championships

Hmmmm. Says he will run Chicago marathon, so it can't be a physical thing...

Maybe he realized there are "two speeds" in the elite triathlon ranks, and became disillusioned.

OR, he's just really, really afraid of losing to Chrissie Wellington.

 

[Anonymous]

I saw that comment. Excellent work. Just facts. According to another comment, it was deleted because it was 'anonymous.' I'm posting the comment with contact info.

I tried posting your reply. The entry is no longer accepting comments. I tried it with two different browsers. The 'post' button just hangs.

Great.

I was trying all night, finally got it up this morning (oo er missus) after registering with posterous. Had the same problem.

 

[Digger]

You said to Dimspace that the AFLD also conducted tested Lance throughout, thus adding to his number of tests, making him the most tested athlete etc.
One problem there, AFLD was not set up until 2006 and did not conduct testing in the Tour until 2008.
As regards testing, how many times did the Operation Puerto riders test positive? Yet I'm sure you consider them dirty.
How do you explain away the EPO in the '99 test samples? Were they spiked? Because even Lance admits they are his.
You talk about legitiimate proof. Eye witness testimony, positive tests, working with a known doping doctor, US Postal service chiropractor dumping Activogen etc etc. But everyone is wrong except Lance. Everyone is telling lies except the one person who has more to gain than anyone from prolonging the lies.
You talk about representing 28 million etc, I find that idea repulsive that a doper 'represents' these people. Maybe you would want to google Greg Stock and Chris 'extract of cortisone' Carmichael to see the link which may have been brought on by his earlier doping. Wouldn't that be ironic.
He said this one is on the house, yet pocketed over two million dollars for a week's work from the Ausrtalian government. He talked about transparency yet won't answer questions about his 'charity' and dumps Don Catlin wihin two months of announcing it in a grand press conference.
Why would a clean rider bully a clean rider like Bassons? Why would he chase down Simeoni, a guy who told the truth? Why would Bruyneel his former DS say that cycling's problems wiht doping originate from agreeing too readily to blood testing?

You talk about Betsy, Bill Stapleton is on tape as acknowledging it happened. Stephanieis on tape. Frankie heard it. Nicholls wasn't even in the room. And you are asbolutely wrong that the court of law did not uphold Betsy and Frankie's evidence. The court ruled that whether he doped or not wasn't hte point. The point was Texas law and not establising if he doped. This was decided by the judge.

But as i say, everyone is wrong except Lance.............

I posted the above on his 'blog'.

Dr apologires for taking your line about the afld.

 

[Anonymous]

Ive asked about the alcohol endorsement which fitted in nicely with an article on fox news an hour ago claiming that around 10% of all cancer in men is due to alcohol. what timing.

AFP reporting
http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.cd99c4a336c0b0cca52f7a33775a7f7e.4e1

 

[Digger]

My post was deleted within ten minutes.
I gave full name. What a ..........

 

[Anonymous]

My post was deleted within ten minutes.
I gave full name. What a ..........

its possibly just not been approved yet.

 

[Digger]

2) Thanks for finally putting your name! You and all your cyclingnews forum buddies can blather on and on all you want and come to false conclusions. I deleted your post because you failed to put your real name and even that is debatable. Now that you did however, I am happy to reply. And you're still wrong.

I wish you all best of luck with this hatred. I just don't work that way. It's a pathetic existence. What are you all going to do when this ends one way or another? Still hating on someone or something on a forum without having the guts to get out there and use that energy to make a difference somehow?! It's a sad existence. You clowns are even talking garbage about me for spelling! I am writing on a damn ipad. You're just so pathetic it's hysterical. I encourage you to someday snap out of this hate mongering and use that energy to help someone. I'm not blinded by Lance or his "lies" as your forum buddies say. I choose to support the survivor and the cause. I do so because it's taken countless people I love from this earth. I love cycling and I hope it rises out of the ashes, but hanging Lance on the cross in forums or even publicly is more part of the problem, not the solution. It's time for cycling to move on with a new direction. That's my opinion however. I just hope you and your buddies take more time to make a positive difference for a cause or in someone's life. Judging from what I have seen, you have plenty of time and energy to dedicate to it!
Now, before you and your buddies start throwing personal insults at me. I have a child who's very sick today, so I am shutting down commenting so I can focus on the most important things in life and that's my family. Go ahead and try to tear me down all you want. I try to do good things for people and I sleep well at night. I am not taking my ball and refusing to play. It's just time to focus on family. I truly hope you all get help for your hatred and if you need a charity to support, I welcome you to come support Dana Farber and the Jimmy Fund!

From Matt's blog..........

Now that's a post with irony.

Also I see he likes to use quotes from Lance in his writings (in red). That's what happens kids when you mastu%%ate to Lance on Youtube. Let this be a lesson.

 

[Benotti69]

From Matt's blog..........

Now that's a post with irony.

Also I see he likes to use quotes from Lance in his writings. That's what happens kids when you mastu%%ate to Lance on Youtube. Let this be a lesson.

Scary the way people think

 

[Anonymous]

Hes now shut down commenting.

Interesting that my post about todays news that alcohol causes cancer didnt make it through his moderation.

 

[jimmypop]

Hes now shut down commenting.

Interesting that my post about todays news that alcohol causes cancer didnt make it through his moderation.

"Alcohol" and "moderation" in the same sentence; that's never been my style, at least.