Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Granville57]

Now to state my opinion, which I presume many on both sides of the fence will disagree with and maybe even get hostile. FI, I do not care, my opinion has to be heard.

To put it bluntly, I am suspicious of ANY statement emerging from WonderBoy's lips.

But, HIS CANCER WAS NEVER AT THE LEVEL HE CLAIMED.

I'm not sure why you are expecting a hostile reaction to this.
The last several posts in this thread have been exceptionally reasonable.

Suspicious of ANY statement from WonderBoy? Ummm, yes. Me too.

Self-serving exaggerations of his cancer? I've always felt the same way.

My mom was a nurse who worked for several years in the office of an oncologist. The typical "conversation around the dinner table" at our house was her retelling of the stories that she was faced with during the day. It was cathartic for her as these were mostly very, very sad stories and she is very empathetic by nature. So growing up, I heard an awful lot of stories of the struggles associated with cancer. Obviously, some of the patients survived, some did not. A friend of mine battled cancer for many years, seeing many different specialists but with little resolution. His condition was complex and answers were hard to come by. At my suggestion he eventually sought yet another opinion from the doctor that my mother worked for. Another procedure was performed, but some years later he eventually succumbed to the disease and lost his life.

What's the point of that story?
Having heard the details of many, many different types of cancer and the results of different types of treatments, I was never all that impressed with what Lance described in terms of his condition or recovery. Does that seem like a harsh assessment? Well, let's be clear: Lance was trying to impress everyone with the description of his "miraculous recovery."

Reading about his chemo treatment, is his first book, he describes the process as consisting of "four cycles in the space of three months." He then goes on to describe, "At first it wasn't so bad; by the end of the second set of treatments I just felt sickish and constantly sleepy." He describes the next two cycles in much grimmer terms, including this: "By the fourth cycle I was in the fetal position retching around the clock."

I have certainly never experienced the horrors of chemo, and I hope I never do.
But I've seen, firsthand, others go through much worse in terms of length of treatments and ultimate outcomes. Amputation being one example; death, of course, being quite another. And sadly, my perspective is hardly unique.

And while I'm on the topic...
It could be easily argued that Contador came much closer to death (if that is supposed to be the measuring stick of one's heroics) when he crashed and went into convulsions on the side of the road. I found that footage to be extremely disturbing to watch; not to mention scary as hell. He was diagnosed with a cerebral cavernoma, and he too underwent what was considered to be very risky brain surgery.

The story of Contador's recovery is sometimes retold when there is a feature on him, but it has hardly become his rallying cry nor has he built his image around it. Now, I'll admit, this story may be much bigger in Spain, I really don't know. But the American media hardly mentions it.

The narrative is only effective if Lance is the only one to have overcome some great physical and psychological setback.

The other thing that greatly offends me about Lance's "story"—or that of any other high-profile celebrity—is that quite often they try to paint a picture of their own suffering as somehow being more noteworthy than the average citizen's simply because they are...celebrities (you think Michael Jordan was the only person to lose a parent in a tragic manner?). What often gets overlooked in these grand tales is that for the average person that is stricken with a tragic condition, life does not have a pause button. They have to go back to work, often during treatment. They don't have endorsements to fill their bank accounts or sports-related companies willing to step in and provide insurance coverage. The average person will face many, many other obstacles that they elite athlete never will.

To reiterate: I don't buy into anything that comes out of Wonderboy's mouth either.

 

[AussieGoddess]

thanks Granville and Dallas ....

Interesting thoughts.

Dallas - I never really doubted that he has exaggerated his experiences, but it doesnt take away from the fact that he will still use his fight against cancer to inspire others.

I have luekaemia. Its treatable, and I am lucky that I dont have some of the major side effects that can come with the treatment - actually I live my life pretty well. But I could never hope to be well enough to undertake the major stress, physical activity and discipline to ride the worlds premier 3 week bike race.

Even if he only had a really minor scare, and even if that scare WAS caused by his prior drug use, and even if he used PED's to get to the top afterward ... the fact that he DID overcome it still gives hope to those who need it most.

You are not going to change the fact that he is an inspiration to these people. Even if he is stripped of his TdF wins ... it wont change his status in the eyes of his admirers.

What we need to expose is the dirty, underhanded side of it that shows that he is no inspiration. That he cheated, intimidated and bullied his way to the top. That he didnt win due to his abilities, but that he made others lose due to other factors .... would Ullrich have beaten him if he had been able to be sure he wouldnt be tested, or could offer the testers a coffee while he showered?

Its not the actual drug taking that cancer survivors will have a problem with. Its all the other stuff.

Its especially using his foundation to rip off the very people he claims to inspire.


Granville - I didnt know that about Contador. It does kind of put into perspective how it isnt actually that unusual to overcome adversity to get to the top.

But - many people are fighting cancer, and can relate to LA. Not too many experience what Contador did.


As you can no doubt see- I am a bit torn. Well - devastated would be a better word really. Coming into this forum, I did think Lance took PED's ... but still respected and admired him for everything he achieved. Finding out the other stuff has opened my eyes ...

 

[epo1999]

I'm not sure why you are expecting a hostile reaction to this.
The last several posts in this thread have been exceptionally reasonable.

Suspicious of ANY statement from WonderBoy? Ummm, yes. Me too.

Self-serving exaggerations of his cancer? I've always felt the same way.

My mom was a nurse who worked for several years in the office of an oncologist. The typical "conversation around the dinner table" at our house was her retelling of the stories that she was faced with during the day. It was cathartic for her as these were mostly very, very sad stories and she is very empathetic by nature. So growing up, I heard an awful lot of stories of the struggles associated with cancer. Obviously, some of the patients survived, some did not. A friend of mine battled cancer for many years, seeing many different specialists but with little resolution. His condition was complex and answers were hard to come by. At my suggestion he eventually sought yet another opinion from the doctor that my mother worked for. Another procedure was performed, but some years later he eventually succumbed to the disease and lost his life.

What's the point of that story?
Having heard the details of many, many different types of cancer and the results of different types of treatments, I was never all that impressed with what Lance described in terms of his condition or recovery. Does that seem like a harsh assessment? Well, let's be clear: Lance was trying to impress everyone with the description of his "miraculous recovery."

Reading about his chemo treatment, is his first book, he describes the process as consisting of "four cycles in the space of three months." He then goes on to describe, "At first it wasn't so bad; by the end of the second set of treatments I just felt sickish and constantly sleepy." He describes the next two cycles in much grimmer terms, including this: "By the fourth cycle I was in the fetal position retching around the clock."

I have certainly never experienced the horrors of chemo, and I hope I never do.
But I've seen, firsthand, others go through much worse in terms of length of treatments and ultimate outcomes. Amputation being one example; death, of course, being quite another. And sadly, my perspective is hardly unique.

And while I'm on the topic...
It could be easily argued that Contador came much closer to death (if that is supposed to be the measuring stick of one's heroics) when he crashed and went into convulsions on the side of the road. I found that footage to be extremely disturbing to watch; not to mention scary as hell. He was diagnosed with a cerebral cavernoma, and he too underwent what was considered to be very risky brain surgery.

The story of Contador's recovery is sometimes retold when there is a feature on him, but it has hardly become his rallying cry nor has he built his image around it. Now, I'll admit, this story may be much bigger in Spain, I really don't know. But the American media hardly mentions it.

The narrative is only effective if Lance is the only one to have overcome some great physical and psychological setback.

The other thing that greatly offends me about Lance's "story"—or that of any other high-profile celebrity—is that quite often they try to paint a picture of their own suffering as somehow being more noteworthy than the average citizen's simply because they are...celebrities (you think Michael Jordan was the only person to lose a parent in a tragic manner?). What often gets overlooked in these grand tales is that for the average person that is stricken with a tragic condition, life does not have a pause button. They have to go back to work, often during treatment. They don't have endorsements to fill their bank accounts or sports-related companies willing to step in and provide insurance coverage. The average person will face many, many other obstacles that they elite athlete never will.

To reiterate: I don't buy into anything that comes out of Wonderboy's mouth either.

Very well put. When I had cancer, I took 15 rounds of chemo over the course of a year, and I didn't even have it as bad as some. Lance's recovery was comparatively a walk in the park. Thanks for putting that fact into clear perspective. I'm sure he was still shocked, scared, sick, etc... but in the grand scheme, he got off pretty easy.

 

[thehog]

Good post. Like you I've seen the face of cancer. The most troubling part of the *Livestrong/Cancer Inc. became the Comeback 2.0 Nike commercial. The blatant use of cancer imagery along with the "they called me a doper" and "I'm doing this for them" to suggest "I'm clean" and "it's not about making money" was most disturbing. To play on people's emotions and to appeal to the very community they he claims to be helping to rally support for the "I'm clean" mantra to generate personal profit for himself. Nothing wrong with making money but to do so in such a sickening and perverse way smacks of someone who's not mentally sane.*

I'm not sure why you are expecting a hostile reaction to this.
The last several posts in this thread have been exceptionally reasonable.

Suspicious of ANY statement from WonderBoy? Ummm, yes. Me too.

Self-serving exaggerations of his cancer? I've always felt the same way.

My mom was a nurse who worked for several years in the office of an oncologist. The typical "conversation around the dinner table" at our house was her retelling of the stories that she was faced with during the day. It was cathartic for her as these were mostly very, very sad stories and she is very empathetic by nature. So growing up, I heard an awful lot of stories of the struggles associated with cancer. Obviously, some of the patients survived, some did not. A friend of mine battled cancer for many years, seeing many different specialists but with little resolution. His condition was complex and answers were hard to come by. At my suggestion he eventually sought yet another opinion from the doctor that my mother worked for. Another procedure was performed, but some years later he eventually succumbed to the disease and lost his life.

What's the point of that story?
Having heard the details of many, many different types of cancer and the results of different types of treatments, I was never all that impressed with what Lance described in terms of his condition or recovery. Does that seem like a harsh assessment? Well, let's be clear: Lance was trying to impress everyone with the description of his "miraculous recovery."

Reading about his chemo treatment, is his first book, he describes the process as consisting of "four cycles in the space of three months." He then goes on to describe, "At first it wasn't so bad; by the end of the second set of treatments I just felt sickish and constantly sleepy." He describes the next two cycles in much grimmer terms, including this: "By the fourth cycle I was in the fetal position retching around the clock."

I have certainly never experienced the horrors of chemo, and I hope I never do.
But I've seen, firsthand, others go through much worse in terms of length of treatments and ultimate outcomes. Amputation being one example; death, of course, being quite another. And sadly, my perspective is hardly unique.

And while I'm on the topic...
It could be easily argued that Contador came much closer to death (if that is supposed to be the measuring stick of one's heroics) when he crashed and went into convulsions on the side of the road. I found that footage to be extremely disturbing to watch; not to mention scary as hell. He was diagnosed with a cerebral cavernoma, and he too underwent what was considered to be very risky brain surgery.

The story of Contador's recovery is sometimes retold when there is a feature on him, but it has hardly become his rallying cry nor has he built his image around it. Now, I'll admit, this story may be much bigger in Spain, I really don't know. But the American media hardly mentions it.

The narrative is only effective if Lance is the only one to have overcome some great physical and psychological setback.

The other thing that greatly offends me about Lance's "story"—or that of any other high-profile celebrity—is that quite often they try to paint a picture of their own suffering as somehow being more noteworthy than the average citizen's simply because they are...celebrities (you think Michael Jordan was the only person to lose a parent in a tragic manner?). What often gets overlooked in these grand tales is that for the average person that is stricken with a tragic condition, life does not have a pause button. They have to go back to work, often during treatment. They don't have endorsements to fill their bank accounts or sports-related companies willing to step in and provide insurance coverage. The average person will face many, many other obstacles that they elite athlete never will.

To reiterate: I don't buy into anything that comes out of Wonderboy's mouth either.

 

[muhua33]

I heard from a triathlete friend that he was asking for more money than all the prize money combined for an appearance at Kona. And they said "No."

 

[muhua33]

Purely a negotiating ploy. Which ever race gives him the largest donation to his legal defense fund.....err, appearance fee, "wins"

I heard from a triathlete friend of mine that his asking price at Kona was more than all the combined prize money. And they said no. Can't find a news story on it though.

 

[hrotha]

The story of Contador's recovery is sometimes retold when there is a feature on him, but it has hardly become his rallying cry nor has he built his image around it. Now, I'll admit, this story may be much bigger in Spain, I really don't know. But the American media hardly mentions it.

Nah, it's the same in Spain. Journalists mention it when summarizing his career, but no one talks about him as a cavernoma survivor but as a 3-time Tour winner. He has no problem to talk about it when asked or whatever, but it's more like any other rider talking about an injury that made him lose a whole season than as anything else. Occasionally some journalist will try to write a tear jerker out of it, but it's not common at all.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Some of you people should see the positive aspect.

If Lance died from cancer you would be officially......even more insignificant, you would have nothing left to hate, nothing left to profile yourselfs.
Would you even....exist ?

Like I always say:
If Lance didn't exist, someone had to invent him.

But not for the fanboys or cyclingfans - just for you haters and cancerexperts.
If I didn't know some of you guys for quit some time now, I would still be really impressed by the fact how deep some internet-creatures can sink.
Come on people, just a small step to "Lance actually didn't have cancer", or "Lance cancered himself to make money".

You can do it !

 

[Ferminal]

Some of you people should see the positive aspect.

If Lance died from cancer you would be officially......even more insignificant, you would have nothing left to hate, nothing left to profile yourselfs.
Would you even....exist ?

Like I always say:
If Lance didn't exist, someone had to invent him.

But not for the fanboys or cyclingfans - just for you haters and cancerexperts.
If I didn't know some of you guys for quit some time now, I would still be really impressed by the fact how deep some internet-creatures can sink.
Come on people, just a small step to "Lance actually didn't have cancer", or "Lance cancered himself to make money".

You can do it !

What card are you playing here?

I would much prefer people donate their time and money to a far more efficient charity which has a better chance of saving lives.

How many lives has "global cancer awareness" saved, or improved? What is better, one dollar which turns into 50c of "awareness" or one dollar, which turns into 90c of research?

When I get cancer I'm not looking for "awareness", "miracles", or a "fight", I just want the treatment necessary to give me a chance to overcome the disease. Research isn't the only avenue, you could help people who can't access treatment due to location or other circumstances, you could improve staff and facilities in underprivileged areas to ensure better treatment.

Regardless of who its figurehead is, the charity is rubbish, at least that is my perspective from this side of the world, maybe it actually does something in the US.

 

[jimmypop]

What card are you playing here?

The Full *** card.

(I counted three logical fallacies)

 

[jimmypop]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13010512

One study, but still: Why is Armstrong selling for and his charity partnering with a beer brand? Even without the cancer link, I can think of a few reasons why an athlete shouldn't directly promote the consumption of alcoholic beverages.

 

[Polish]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13010512

One study, but still: Why is Armstrong selling for and his charity partnering with a beer brand? Even without the cancer link, I can think of a few reasons why an athlete shouldn't directly promote the consumption of alcoholic beverages.

Binge drinking is bad no doubt. Can cause cancer

So the next time you crack open a beezer, jimbob, be aware of the one of the many parts of the Livestrong Message:

Surround yourself instead with positive, uplifting people that you can confide in and discuss what you are doing. Reach out to them when you feel a possible binge coming on.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/68309-cut-down-drinking/#ixzz1JEgbjSH3

"Cancer awareness" takes many forms.
More than just a slogan.

 

[flicker]

Binge drinking is bad no doubt. Can cause cancer

So the next time you crack open a beezer, jimbob, be aware of the one of the many parts of the Livestrong Message:



"Cancer awareness" takes many forms.
More than just a slogan.

Once again, a wise,mature suggestion from the omnipotent LIVESTRONG organization. I look forward to each and every email letter from them, nothing but encouragement from LIVESTRONG to live a long, prosperous healthy lifestyle, chapaue LIVESTRONG.

 

[MacRoadie]

Surround yourself instead with positive, uplifting people that you can confide in and discuss what you are doing...

Kinda begs the question: Why are you and Flicky here then?

 

[frenchfry]

Once again, a wise,mature suggestion from the omnipotent LIVESTRONG organization. I look forward to each and every email letter from them, nothing but encouragement from LIVESTRONG to live a long, prosperous healthy lifestyle, chapaue LIVESTRONG.

I am waiting for the Livestrong pom pom girls to drop by and cheer the cancer right out of our house.

rah rah, hiss boom bah.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Once again, a wise,mature suggestion from the omnipotent LIVESTRONG organization. I look forward to each and every email letter from them, nothing but encouragement from LIVESTRONG to live a long, prosperous healthy lifestyle, chapaue LIVESTRONG.

Me....I just try to live the Vulcan way ....same as the famous cancer awareness guru of his times ..Mr. Spock.... "Live long and prosper"

Fry guy…I hope the cheerleaders do the trick……somehow I think it takes a bit of luck and some good doctors. But if you want I can try and get ChrisE and I will come over to do some cheerleading?

 

[frenchfry]

Me....I just try to live the Vulcan way ....same as the famous cancer awareness guru of his times ..Mr. Spock.... "Live long and prosper"

Fry guy…I hope the cheerleaders do the trick……somehow I think it takes a bit of luck and some good doctors. But if you want I can try and get ChrisE and I will come over to do some cheerleading?

Only if you go topless!

You guys are welcome any time. I went by the piano bar the other day, they asked me when Chris was going to drop in for a visit. Apparently business has been slow and they need a boost - the E man is the one for the job!

 

[jimmypop]

Once again, a wise,mature suggestion from the omnipotent LIVESTRONG organization. I look forward to each and every email letter from them, nothing but encouragement from LIVESTRONG to live a long, prosperous healthy lifestyle, chapaue LIVESTRONG.

As usual, the toolbox crew in lockstep.

Get bent. I'm through with being polite; intentionally devious and deceptive people like boogerflick and ballpolisher aren't deserving of respect, and they've proven it with their thorough and recorded post histories here.

Also, I miss Chris E. That guy would post nonstop about how his love for Armstrong blossomed after seeing a teenaged Lance in lycra. That's totally normal.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

As usual, the toolbox crew in lockstep.

Get bent. I'm through with being polite; intentionally devious and deceptive people like boogerflick and ballpolisher aren't deserving of respect, and they've proven it with their thorough and recorded post histories here.

Also, I miss Chris E. That guy would post nonstop about how his love for Armstrong blossomed after seeing a teenaged Lance in lycra. That's totally normal.

Oh please spare us the histrionics. Try very hard to see that not EVERYONE has the same view as you do. What is not normal is that you picked up on some type of inside or closed post and decided to go all abnormal on it. That is my opinion by the way.

2 spare the time try not to troll a post which you undoubtedly do not understand the meaning of.

 

[Oldman]

Oh please spare us the histrionics. Try very hard to see that not EVERYONE has the same view as you do. What is not normal is that you picked up on some type of inside or closed post and decided to go all abnormal on it. That is my opinion by the way.

2 spare the time try not to troll a post which you undoubtedly do not understand the meaning of.

Moreover I love the subtext of Flicker and Polish comments. It's easy to identify zealots of either stripe by how strong their agreement/disagreement is. They are the heartbeat of this issue!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Moreover I love the subtext of Flicker and Polish comments. It's easy to identify zealots of either stripe by how strong their agreement/disagreement is. They are the heartbeat of this issue!

They have the heartbeat of something just not sure it is the issue!

So which zealot and stripe have you identified me as?

 

[Cal_Joe]

So which zealot and stripe have you identified me as?

Someone who, on a daily basis, gets a good chuckle regarding the antics of the Handbag Ladies?

Just a guess.

 

[sartain]

I'm not sure why you are expecting a hostile reaction to this.
The last several posts in this thread have been exceptionally reasonable.

Suspicious of ANY statement from WonderBoy? Ummm, yes. Me too.

Self-serving exaggerations of his cancer? I've always felt the same way.

My mom was a nurse who worked for several years in the office of an oncologist. The typical "conversation around the dinner table" at our house was her retelling of the stories that she was faced with during the day. It was cathartic for her as these were mostly very, very sad stories and she is very empathetic by nature. So growing up, I heard an awful lot of stories of the struggles associated with cancer. Obviously, some of the patients survived, some did not. A friend of mine battled cancer for many years, seeing many different specialists but with little resolution. His condition was complex and answers were hard to come by. At my suggestion he eventually sought yet another opinion from the doctor that my mother worked for. Another procedure was performed, but some years later he eventually succumbed to the disease and lost his life.

What's the point of that story?
Having heard the details of many, many different types of cancer and the results of different types of treatments, I was never all that impressed with what Lance described in terms of his condition or recovery. Does that seem like a harsh assessment? Well, let's be clear: Lance was trying to impress everyone with the description of his "miraculous recovery."

Reading about his chemo treatment, is his first book, he describes the process as consisting of "four cycles in the space of three months." He then goes on to describe, "At first it wasn't so bad; by the end of the second set of treatments I just felt sickish and constantly sleepy." He describes the next two cycles in much grimmer terms, including this: "By the fourth cycle I was in the fetal position retching around the clock."

I have certainly never experienced the horrors of chemo, and I hope I never do.
But I've seen, firsthand, others go through much worse in terms of length of treatments and ultimate outcomes. Amputation being one example; death, of course, being quite another. And sadly, my perspective is hardly unique.

And while I'm on the topic...
It could be easily argued that Contador came much closer to death (if that is supposed to be the measuring stick of one's heroics) when he crashed and went into convulsions on the side of the road. I found that footage to be extremely disturbing to watch; not to mention scary as hell. He was diagnosed with a cerebral cavernoma, and he too underwent what was considered to be very risky brain surgery.

The story of Contador's recovery is sometimes retold when there is a feature on him, but it has hardly become his rallying cry nor has he built his image around it. Now, I'll admit, this story may be much bigger in Spain, I really don't know. But the American media hardly mentions it.

The narrative is only effective if Lance is the only one to have overcome some great physical and psychological setback.

The other thing that greatly offends me about Lance's "story"—or that of any other high-profile celebrity—is that quite often they try to paint a picture of their own suffering as somehow being more noteworthy than the average citizen's simply because they are...celebrities (you think Michael Jordan was the only person to lose a parent in a tragic manner?). What often gets overlooked in these grand tales is that for the average person that is stricken with a tragic condition, life does not have a pause button. They have to go back to work, often during treatment. They don't have endorsements to fill their bank accounts or sports-related companies willing to step in and provide insurance coverage. The average person will face many, many other obstacles that they elite athlete never will.

To reiterate: I don't buy into anything that comes out of Wonderboy's mouth either.

Let's not forget that GL was one hell of a lot closer to death than LA every was, and his comeback from a close-range shotgun blast was orders of magnitude a greater feat than LA's dance with cancer. But alas, how many people can you name that have been shot with a shotgun at close range . . . it's six sigma event.

 

[D-Queued]

Let's not forget that GL was one hell of a lot closer to death than LA every was, and his comeback from a close-range shotgun blast was orders of magnitude a greater feat than LA's dance with cancer. But alas, how many people can you name that have been shot with a shotgun at close range . . . it's six sigma event.

I'm a GL fan and a reformed Lance fan.

Not sure how or why we would compare the two medical situations, however.

It is not mutually exclusive to believe that Lance had advanced cancer, and was also a major doper.

---

Friend of mine died of cancer recently. He was a par golfer, even though he was blind. Balding early, he tried using DMSO on his head to treat his receding hairline.

He still lost more hair and all kinds of nasty stuff came out of DMSO later. Best theory is that caused his blindness. For all I know, it could have caused his cancer as well.

However he contracted the cancer, whether by his own foolishness or not, cancer sucks and he still went too early.

Dave.

 

[BroDeal]

Friend of mine died of cancer recently. He was a par golfer, even though he was blind. Balding early, he tried using DMSO on his head to treat his receding hairline.

He still lost more hair and all kinds of nasty stuff came out of DMSO later. Best theory is that caused his blindness. For all I know, it could have caused his cancer as well.

However he contracted the cancer, whether by his own foolishness or not, cancer sucks and he still went too early.

Hold it. DMSO is a cure for baldness? Say what?