Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Dr. Maserati]

I have no way of knowing whether or not Armstrong is the target of a federal criminal grand jury investigation. A "target" is a specific thing, when you talk about a grand jury.

But, I claim no secret information source that allows me to relate the experience of "all" the people who appeared before the GJ.

Seriously? Here? You've gotta be kidding!

Do you think they hauled Stephanie McIlvain in front of a Grand Jury for 7 hours to talk about the latest range of Oakleys?

 

[Cimacoppi48]

Do you think they hauled Stephanie McIlvain in front of a Grand Jury for 7 hours to talk about the latest range of Oakleys?

I still find that length of time extraordinary. One has to think they had text messages and emails of hers by the pound. Wire taps?? Also, the discussions, if any,with her employer about her testimony or what her employer knew about Armstrong's affairs, could explain it.

 

[MarkvW]

Does not a Federal criminal prosecution that could possible result in the accused being sentenced for more than 1 year require indictments from a Federal Grand Jury?

It does. But from that, the most you can safely infer is that the feds have a reasonable suspicion that a felony crime has been committed. That starts an investigation. That GJ investigation can then range far and wide, into areas that were not even contemplated when the GJ was empanelled.

From Tyler and George we know that doping at USPS, and Armstrong's doping in particular, are topics of the GJ inquiry. From Floyd, we can infer that those topics are related to the suspicion of felony crime that started the GJ.

But to go from "related to" to "target of" is unwarranted by the facts that are now publicly known.

 

[MarkvW]

Do you think they hauled Stephanie McIlvain in front of a Grand Jury for 7 hours to talk about the latest range of Oakleys?

Do you think that seven hours of Stephanie McIlvain's testimony makes Armstrong a target?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Do you think that seven hours of Stephanie McIlvain's testimony makes Armstrong a target?

Yes. ............

 

[MarkvW]

That is why he has spent millions of live$trong dollars on lawyers and not his own

One person knows the full and complete extent of Armstrong's guilt. That person is spending a boatload of money in Armstrong's defense.

 

[MarkvW]

Yes. ............

Great! You answered your own rhetorical question!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Great! You answered your own rhetorical question!

I answered your question "Do you think that seven hours of Stephanie McIlvain's testimony makes Armstrong a target?"

Which was your (non) answer to my question.

 

[MarkvW]

Yes. ............

I answered your question "Do you think that seven hours of Stephanie McIlvain's testimony makes Armstrong a target?"

Which was your (non) answer to my question.

Sorry. I'm not interested in "the latest range of Oakleys"

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sorry. I'm not interested in "the latest range of Oakleys"

Don't worry - neither were the Grand Jury.

 

[fatandfast]

One person knows the full and complete extent of Armstrong's guilt. That person is spending a boatload of money in Armstrong's defense.

I wonder if lots of non-US posters realize how our system works, anybody can accuse anybody of anything. The party accused has to get a lawyer, pay for it often times $100,000s in advance, you are found innocent or the case is dismissed and you are out your money.

The persons accusing you can do it as often as they want as long as they have the money for the other end of the procedure. In the case of the government it is an open ended checkbook with very few checks and balances.
J.Edgar was a so so movie but thank god they added all the stuff about his personal life, otherwise it would have been business as usual at the government prosecutors office. If anybody thinks that Armstrong is showing guilt by getting a good legal team you know zilch about the US Justice system. Good lawyers let people walk free regardless of guilt. The lack of a good lawyer can get all your money along with everything you stand for taken in an instant regardless of your guilt. Getting a good lawyer is good sense not guilt. Christopher Walken just got a lawyer because a drunk girl fell out of a boat 30 years ago

 

[veganrob]

No... Walken got a lawyer because he was present when an alleged drunk girl fell off a boat.

 

[MarkvW]

Don't worry - neither were the Grand Jury.

Voila! So you did know the answer to the question you asked! That's what a rhetorical question is, silly.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Voila! So you did know the answer to the question you asked! That's what a rhetorical question is, silly.

No, silly - I answered your question - this one in case you have forgotten "Do you think that seven hours of Stephanie McIlvain's testimony makes Armstrong a target?" I said "Yes".

 

[Velodude]

Do you think that seven hours of Stephanie McIlvain's testimony makes Armstrong a target?

Add to that the known appearances before the GJ of former LA team members (Hamilton, Landis, Popovych), alleged admission by GH he was in a form of contact with either the GJ or investigators, Lemond being subpoenaed and providing documentary evidence to the investigators (see below), Ferrari being a subject of investigations in Europe allegedly at the behest of FDA, visits to Europe by FDA, USADA and FBI operatives, agreements reached with French to supply LA's doping control samples and paperwork to investigators, Swiss lab director being interviewed by investigators over LA 2001 dope tests (see below)..... (I'm exhausted)

Federal prosecutors have asked LeMond to provide documents pertaining to Armstrong and the last four cycling teams for which he has competed: United States Postal Service, Discovery Channel, Astana and RadioShack. LeMond has been asked to provide those documents by July 30. He may also be asked to testify to the federal grand jury in Los Angeles that is examining the case

The director of the Swiss anti-doping laboratory informed federal authorities last fall that Lance Armstrong's test results from the 2001 Tour de Suisse were "suspicious" and "consistent with EPO use," The Associated Press has learned.

Martial Saugy made the statement in September, according to a person familiar with the investigation, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the case.

 

[MarkvW]

No, silly - I answered your question - this one in case you have forgotten "Do you think that seven hours of Stephanie McIlvain's testimony makes Armstrong a target?" I said "Yes".

You also answered your own question--the one about the Oakleys!

 

[Caruut]

You also answered your own question--the one about the Oakleys!

Why are you so ****ed that he answered you? If you knew his answer, why ask? Really struggling to see what you're doing here.

 

[just some guy]

Add to that the known appearances before the GJ of former LA team members (Hamilton, Landis, Popovych), alleged admission by GH he was in a form of contact with either the GJ or investigators, Lemond being subpoenaed and providing documentary evidence to the investigators (see below), Ferrari being a subject of investigations in Europe allegedly at the behest of FDA, visits to Europe by FDA, USADA and FBI operatives, agreements reached with French to supply LA's doping control samples and paperwork to investigators, Swiss lab director being interviewed by investigators over LA 2001 dope tests (see below)..... (I'm exhausted)

What info would LeMond have as an outsider ?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You also answered your own question--the one about the Oakleys!

No silly, I didn't.

I answered your reply, "Sorry. I'm not interested in "the latest range of Oakleys" to which I replied, "Don't worry - neither were the Grand Jury".

No answering questions there unless you are suggesting that you answered the rhetorical question?

 

[Velodude]

You also answered your own question--the one about the Oakleys!

You seem to be attempting to practise lawyer related obfuscation. Your inexperience is showing

 

[MarkvW]

You seem to be attempting to practise lawyer related obfuscation. Your inexperience is showing

Yeah. I'm obscuring the true facts of the secret grand jury proceedings! That would be an amazing feat.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why are you so ****ed that he answered you? If you knew his answer, why ask? Really struggling to see what you're doing here.

It is typical obfuscation - rather than acknowledging that having Stephanie McIlvain appear in front of a Grand Jury for 7 hours kills the idea that Armstrong is not a target it is much easier to try being cute and avoid it with (very poor) semantics.

What info would LeMond have as an outsider ?

Quite a bit actually.
LeMond had gathered a lot of information in his own dispute against Trek relating to a lot of Armstrongs activities, particularly Armstrongs business dealing with others.

 

[just some guy]

Quite a bit actually.
LeMond had gathered a lot of information in his own dispute against Trek relating to a lot of Armstrongs activities, particularly Armstrongs business dealing with others.

So it is the money trail again.... makes sense. The whole power stuff of LeMonds while interesting and probably correct is psudo-science at best.

But the money trail makes sense - thanks

 

[Velodude]

What info would LeMond have as an outsider ?

Seeing it was a subpoena for documents I can see any documents he held relating to the the ongoing feud between LA and GL culminating in GL taking breach of contract action against Trek for allegedly neglecting the Lemond brand at the request of LA.

It was reported that GL filed documents in that case about LA paying bribes to avoid positive dope tests.

I cannot see how the Discovery, Astana & Radioshack periods figure with GL.

It is known that Tailwind Sports had ownership & management of US Postal & Discovery teams. Capital Sports & Entertainment (LA being a shareholder) 50% owned US Postal in 2004 and claimed to be involved in some management respect at least in Discovery and Radioshack (as per CS&E website).

It is seamless to 2007 that LA had ownership and management participation in two teams. Statutes of Limitation would not be an issue more so when the charge of defrauding the US government (re USPS 2002-2004 contract) has an extended 10 year SOL limit.

 

[fatandfast]

Seeing it was a subpoena for documents I can see any documents he held relating to the the ongoing feud between LA and GL culminating in GL taking breach of contract action against Trek for allegedly neglecting the Lemond brand at the request of LA.

It was reported that GL filed documents in that case about LA paying bribes to avoid positive dope tests.

I cannot see how the Discovery, Astana & Radioshack periods figure with GL.

It is known that Tailwind Sports had ownership & management of US Postal & Discovery teams. Capital Sports & Entertainment (LA being a shareholder) 50% owned US Postal in 2004 and claimed to be involved in some management respect at least in Discovery and Radioshack (as per CS&E website).

It is seamless to 2007 that LA had ownership and management participation in two teams. Statutes of Limitation would not be an issue more so when the charge of defrauding the US government (re USPS 2002-2004 contract) has an extended 10 year SOL limit.

I dream of Lemond showing up with a bunch of charts and graphs about power outputs and how it "proves" there was doping. If this ever goes to trail Armstrong should call 100's of witnesses. Just let people "tie" things together for a jury. The post office will probably be out of business by then and people doing a powerpoint of the bikes that were sold on craigslist or ebay will bring the house down. Ben Stiller and Robin Williams should be there to cross examine the experts.

Trek promised to stop talking about the Lemond/Lance lovefest. That saw Lance remain sponsored and Lemond bikes bite the dust, but another round of anything between the 2 of them will be comedy gold