Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[MarkvW]

Seeing it was a subpoena for documents I can see any documents he held relating to the the ongoing feud between LA and GL culminating in GL taking breach of contract action against Trek for allegedly neglecting the Lemond brand at the request of LA.

It was reported that GL filed documents in that case about LA paying bribes to avoid positive dope tests.

I cannot see how the Discovery, Astana & Radioshack periods figure with GL.

It is known that Tailwind Sports had ownership & management of US Postal & Discovery teams. Capital Sports & Entertainment (LA being a shareholder) 50% owned US Postal in 2004 and claimed to be involved in some management respect at least in Discovery and Radioshack (as per CS&E website).

It is seamless to 2007 that LA had ownership and management participation in two teams. Statutes of Limitation would not be an issue more so when the charge of defrauding the US government (re USPS 2002-2004 contract) has an extended 10 year SOL limit.

Did Armstrong sign the USPS contract? Did Armstrong make any representations to the USPS to induce the US gov't to sign? Just being involved in management in some respect is not enough.

If Armstrong didn't say or do anything (provably) fraudulent, then Armstrong walks on the fraud. The idea of vicarious criminal liability in this instance is idiotic. Nobody on this forum, AFAIK, has ever suggested that Armstrong made a fraudulent representation to the USPS.

Maybe Armstrong could have conspired or aided in a fraudulent scam of the IRS, but it's a long way from saying it to proving it. A clever doper would stay as far away from the USPS contract as possible. Maybe the feds are out to prove that the people who signed the contract signed it knowing that doper Lance was an ongoing cheat?

Maybe Lance isn't a target. Maybe he is. The grand jury process is secret (except for Clinic posters with secret knowledge). There are many possibilities.

It might also just be possible that the Feds are treating Lance like they treated Tyler and George. This would be consistent with Tyler's repeated TV statements equating what Lance did to what all the riders did.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Did Armstrong sign the USPS contract? Did Armstrong make any representations to the USPS to induce the US gov't to sign? Just being involved in management in some respect is not enough.

If Armstrong didn't say or do anything (provably) fraudulent, then Armstrong walks on the fraud. The idea of vicarious criminal liability in this instance is idiotic. Nobody on this forum, AFAIK, has ever suggested that Armstrong made a fraudulent representation to the USPS.

Maybe Armstrong could have conspired or aided in a fraudulent scam of the IRS, but it's a long way from saying it to proving it. A clever doper would stay as far away from the USPS contract as possible. Maybe the feds are out to prove that the people who signed the contract signed it knowing that doper Lance was an ongoing cheat?

Maybe Lance isn't a target. Maybe he is. The grand jury process is secret (except for Clinic posters with secret knowledge). There are many possibilities.

It might also just be possible that the Feds are treating Lance like they treated Tyler and George. This would be consistent with Tyler's repeated TV statements equating what Lance did to what all the riders did.

Secret you say - but isn't the witness allowed to discuss their testimony? So, they are allowed talk to whomever and they can discuss it.

Here is what Stephanie McIlvains lawyer had to say about her 7 hours in the GJ.....

Bienert said McIlvain "testified truthfully. Most of what she was asked about was between five and 14 years old, so she didn't have the greatest recall. But she confirmed she had no personal knowledge of Lance Armstrong using or taking performance-enhancing drugs."

Bienert acknowledged he was not allowed in the grand jury room during the questioning but offered what he said were McIlvain's recollections of the session. "She's drained," he said.

But of course Lance isn't the target.....

 

[MarkvW]

But of course Lance isn't the target.....

I thought you said Lance was the target.
You really should work on saying what you mean.

Maybe something like "But of course it is possible that Lance might not be the target. . ."

Thanks for the link.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I thought you said Lance was the target.
You really should work on saying what you mean.

Maybe something like "But of course it is possible that Lance might not be the target. . ."

Thanks for the link.

Well I did plainly answer "Yes" when you asked me did I think Armstrong was the target earlier - but you decided to ignore that.

So I thought some lawyerly double speak (lies) might be more your style and sure enough, you finally respond.

 

[Velodude]

Did Armstrong sign the USPS contract? Did Armstrong make any representations to the USPS to induce the US gov't to sign? Just being involved in management in some respect is not enough.

If Armstrong didn't say or do anything (provably) fraudulent, then Armstrong walks on the fraud. The idea of vicarious criminal liability in this instance is idiotic. Nobody on this forum, AFAIK, has ever suggested that Armstrong made a fraudulent representation to the USPS.

Maybe Armstrong could have conspired or aided in a fraudulent scam of the IRS, but it's a long way from saying it to proving it. A clever doper would stay as far away from the USPS contract as possible. Maybe the feds are out to prove that the people who signed the contract signed it knowing that doper Lance was an ongoing cheat?

Maybe Lance isn't a target. Maybe he is. The grand jury process is secret (except for Clinic posters with secret knowledge). There are many possibilities.

It might also just be possible that the Feds are treating Lance like they treated Tyler and George. This would be consistent with Tyler's repeated TV statements equating what Lance did to what all the riders did.

Lance Armstrong was a member of an enterprise that allegedly committed Federal offenses that attract the provisions of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO).

All members of that enterprise(s) are culpable. For 2002 to 2007 it is Tailwind Sports in which LA was a director and shareholder. For 2004 to 2007 it included Capital Sports & Entertainment (CS & E) in which LA was a director and shareholder.

You may note that the UCI through Pat McQuaid informed in July 2010 the payment from LA to the UCI in circa 2006 (not 2005 as reported) for a $100,000 "donation" was drawn on the CS & E bank account further evidencing LA's control in this enterprise.

CyclingNews
The president of the International Cycling Union Pat McQuaid has revealed to Cyclingnews that Lance Armstrong made not one, but two donations to the UCI. Speaking to Cyclingnews during a visit to Britain, McQuaid said that the seven-time Tour de France winner signed a personal cheque for $25,000 in 2002 and then his management company Capital Sports and Entertainment made a second payment of $100,000 in 2005.

You are obviously groping in the dark in regard to the legal issues on a director's liabilities and responsibilities.

The powers of the board of directors are vested in the board as a whole, and not in the individual directors. Individual directors can still bind the company if they are acting under authority delegated by the board or ostensible authority. The signing of a contract by a director or directors is signed on behalf of the board and binds the company unless fraud can be proven.

 

[MarkvW]

Well I did plainly answer "Yes" when you asked me did I think Armstrong was the target earlier - but you decided to ignore that.

So I thought some lawyerly double speak (lies) might be more your style and sure enough, you finally respond.

Maserati-Style!

 

[MarkvW]

Lance Armstrong was a member of an enterprise that allegedly committed Federal offenses that attract the provisions of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO).

All members of that enterprise(s) are culpable. For 2002 to 2007 it is Tailwind Sports in which LA was a director and shareholder. For 2004 to 2007 it included Capital Sports & Entertainment (CS & E) in which LA was a director and shareholder.

You may note that the UCI through Pat McQuaid informed in July 2010 the payment from LA to the UCI in circa 2006 (not 2005 as reported) for a $100,000 "donation" was drawn on the CS & E bank account further evidencing LA's control in this enterprise.



You are obviously groping in the dark in regard to the legal issues on a director's liabilities and responsibilities.

The powers of the board of directors are vested in the board as a whole, and not in the individual directors. Individual directors can still bind the company if they are acting under authority delegated by the board or ostensible authority. The signing of a contract by a director or directors is signed on behalf of the board and binds the company unless fraud can be proven.

You've got to know you're not making any sense. But don't let that stop you!

 

[Caruut]

You've got to know you're not making any sense. But don't let that stop you!

Just make an excuse and log out, dude. You're only making yourself look foolish. If you've got a problem with something someone says, explain it. Don't just sit there making mealy-mouthed little statements and nit-picking on words and phrases.

 

[MarkvW]

Just make an excuse and log out, dude. You're only making yourself look foolish. If you've got a problem with something someone says, explain it. Don't just sit there making mealy-mouthed little statements and nit-picking on words and phrases.

Okay! Until I read the next nonsensical post, then! Au revoir!

 

[Velodude]

You've got to know you're not making any sense. But don't let that stop you!

Your usual and hackneyed "nonsense" cop-out.

Another déjà vu moment of witnessing the inexperience and inability of the self proclaimed legal expert to respond to simple fact.

At least Polish plays confused and dumb when he/she is involved in an exchange but does not want to respond to surpassing arguments.

 

[jackwolf]

MarkvW, I'm afraid I have to agree with almost everybody else here: you're a clown. At least Polish tries to inject some humour into his posts and admits he's a fanboy who will support Lance until the day he dies, but your futile attempts at making us believe you're a disinterested legal expert border on the pathetic.

 

[Velodude]

I dream of Lemond showing up with a bunch of charts and graphs about power outputs and how it "proves" there was doping. If this ever goes to trail Armstrong should call 100's of witnesses. Just let people "tie" things together for a jury. The post office will probably be out of business by then and people doing a powerpoint of the bikes that were sold on craigslist or ebay will bring the house down. Ben Stiller and Robin Williams should be there to cross examine the experts.

Trek promised to stop talking about the Lemond/Lance lovefest. That saw Lance remain sponsored and Lemond bikes bite the dust, but another round of anything between the 2 of them will be comedy gold

In Italy and France it is against the statute law to dope (sporting fraud) and doping is a criminal offense.

Not so in US.

The indictments expected out of the GJ would relate to Federal offenses for drug trafficking, defrauding US Government (re USPS contract), bribery, being in possession of unapproved drugs or drugs without a prescription, conducting medical procedures without a license, money laundering, income tax evasion, possibly mail/wire fraud, carriage of drugs over international borders, etc.

It is also a breach of US Customs law to import and export drug paraphernalia. It would be likely the Feds would be checking customs declarations for the movements of the LA related cycling teams.

It is therefore not a requirement to enlist the services of GL to assist in proving the team members of US Postal, Discovery Channel and Radioshack doped.

 

[Cimacoppi48]

In Italy and France it is against the statute law to dope (sporting fraud) and doping is a criminal offense.

Not so in US.

The indictments expected out of the GJ would relate to Federal offenses for drug trafficking, defrauding US Government (re USPS contract), bribery, being in possession of unapproved drugs or drugs without a prescription, conducting medical procedures without a license, money laundering, income tax evasion, possibly mail/wire fraud, carriage of drugs over international borders, etc.

It is also a breach of US Customs law to import and export drug paraphernalia. It would be likely the Feds would be checking customs declarations for the movements of the LA related cycling teams.

It is therefore not a requirement to enlist the services of GL to assist in proving the team members of US Postal, Discovery Channel and Radioshack doped.

Violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

 

[fatandfast]

Violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

It might be suggested to find out if syringes and needles are as common as massage oil in the pro caravan. With very little paperwork it is legal to have a ready unit to inject yourself or be injected with lets say B12 for a chronic condition.
I am sure with diabetes making it's rampage across the world as it has in the US, there are millions of additional syringes in peoples custody with a script written in their home country regardless of where they are traveling.

If the major charge leveled against Pharmstrong is that he had lots of needles 10 years ago and crossed numerous foreign borders and by doing so violated their laws he must be sleeping pretty well at night.

If Armstrong is not charged by Sep before the US elections he will probably walk

 

[thehog]

MarkvW, I'm afraid I have to agree with almost everybody else here: you're a clown. At least Polish tries to inject some humour into his posts and admits he's a fanboy who will support Lance until the day he dies, but your futile attempts at making us believe you're a disinterested legal expert border on the pathetic.

I think MarkW is going the way of Billy the Kid. Never to be seen again after the 20/40 mile time trial record fiasco.

 

[thehog]

It might be suggested to find out if syringes and needles are as common as massage oil in the pro caravan. With very little paperwork it is legal to have a ready unit to inject yourself or be injected with lets say B12 for a chronic condition.
I am sure with diabetes making it's rampage across the world as it has in the US, there are millions of additional syringes in peoples custody with a script written in their home country regardless of where they are traveling.

If the major charge leveled against Pharmstrong is that he had lots of needles 10 years ago and crossed numerous foreign borders and by doing so violated their laws he must be sleeping pretty well at night.

If Armstrong is not charged by Sep before the US elections he will probably walk

Armstrong is a confidence player. I still say "checkmate" charges or no charges.

Let's just say the investigation is dropped - what would he do? Would he come out and say "Look I've been vindicated!" - seriously could he do this without looking like a fool? or does he disappear for a while or does he never speak about being clean again? He's locked. He's got no way to to turn as the more he speaks the stupider he looks. The facts4lance fiasco was evidence of this - he can't go down that path again.

I really don't know how he plans to limit the damage.

The cover of Vanity Fair seems like such a long time ago...

 

[just some guy]

Armstrong is a confidence player. I still say "checkmate" charges or no charges.

Let's just say the investigation is dropped - what would he do? Would he come out and say "Look I've been vindicated!" - seriously could he do this without looking like a fool? or does he disappear for a while or does he never speak about being clean again? He's locked. He's got no way to to turn as the more he speaks the stupider he looks. The facts4lance fiasco was evidence of this - he can't go down that path again.

I really don't know how he plans to limit the damage.

The cover of Vanity Fair seems like such a long time ago...

I would think he might sue the federal government for damages if that is possible. Just to prove a point

 

[thehog]

I would think he might sue the federal government for damages if that is possible. Just to prove a point

Sue the government ? Brave and very expensive especially when he's still trying to pretend his clean.

The Floyd factor is still a very big issue. He knows Floyd still has a lot more to tell.... it would all start seeping out. Way to risky to start suing anyone.

 

[fatandfast]

Armstrong is a confidence player. I still say "checkmate" charges or no charges.

Let's just say the investigation is dropped - what would he do? Would he come out and say "Look I've been vindicated!" - seriously could he do this without looking like a fool? or does he disappear for a while or does he never speak about being clean again? He's locked. He's got no way to to turn as the more he speaks the stupider he looks. The facts4lance fiasco was evidence of this - he can't go down that path again.

I really don't know how he plans to limit the damage.

The cover of Vanity Fair seems like such a long time ago...

I guess you and I see pop culture differently. Mel Gibson was the sexiest man alive a few years back. No magazine he wasn't on, ditto for Tom Cruise. Gibson amassed a huge fortune. Made over a 300 million on a movie about Jesus, the irony.
You appear to think that Lance needs to speak to one or two large core groups,one being cycling fans. He does not, he can just fade away like every other pop icon into middle age and then when he is really old toss a baseball out at a game or be given a lifetime achievement when livestrong reaches the 10 billion mark.

You are holding Armstrong to some strange staying power standard, he is still on magazines because he is fit for a 40 year old and has turned himself into more than a bike racer.
He is a brand, still capable of selling beer and cell phones. I don't know how much longer he has but he and Snooky will probably expire at about the same time.
He never has to say or do anything if the case is dropped, the public announcement that he never did anything wrong would be explosive. Look at what just acting like he didn't do anything wrong has cost him this far.If he had said something like everybody did things they regret and I am no different , it would have looked like he has a soft underbelly. His bigger than Texas, I can beat anything even cancer has made him an antihero to many that just want him humbled through any means necessary .

Instead of holding Armstrong to a world stage, go small and see him as slightly more popular than the next most famous, fat old bike racer Greg Lemond. Armstrong doped period. So did Andy Petite one guy went hard the other went soft. One guys battle is over the other guy's looks like it may never end

 

[thehog]

I want to understand what you wrote. I really do. But I have no idea what you just said.

Could you paraphrase again into to bullet points?

I guess you and I see pop culture differently. Mel Gibson was the sexiest man alive a few years back. No magazine he wasn't on, ditto for Tom Cruise. Gibson amassed a huge fortune. Made over a 300 million on a movie about Jesus, the irony.
You appear to think that Lance needs to speak to one or two large core groups,one being cycling fans. He does not, he can just fade away like every other pop icon into middle age and then when he is really old toss a baseball out at a game or be given a lifetime achievement when livestrong reaches the 10 billion mark.

You are holding Armstrong to some strange staying power standard, he is still on magazines because he is fit for a 40 year old and has turned himself into more than a bike racer.
He is a brand, still capable of selling beer and cell phones. I don't know how much longer he has but he and Snooky will probably expire at about the same time.
He never has to say or do anything if the case is dropped, the public announcement that he never did anything wrong would be explosive. Look at what just acting like he didn't do anything wrong has cost him this far.If he had said something like everybody did things they regret and I am no different , it would have looked like he has a soft underbelly. His bigger than Texas, I can beat anything even cancer has made him an antihero to many that just want him humbled through any means necessary .

Instead of holding Armstrong to a world stage, go small and see him as slightly more popular than the next most famous, fat old bike racer Greg Lemond. Armstrong doped period. So did Andy Petite one guy went hard the other went soft. One guys battle is over the other guy's looks like it may never end

 

[Cimacoppi48]

I would think he might sue the federal government for damages if that is possible. Just to prove a point

Sovereign immunity would be something of a problem for him if he decided to try that route.

 

[Cimacoppi48]

Sue the government ? Brave and very expensive especially when he's still trying to pretend his clean.

The Floyd factor is still a very big issue. He knows Floyd still has a lot more to tell.... it would all start seeping out. Way to risky to start suing anyone.

The last thing Armstrong wants or needs is the prospect of subjecting himself to the discovery process and being called as a witness at his own civil suit.

 

[Berzin]

I want to understand what you wrote. I really do. But I have no idea what you just said.

Could you paraphrase again into to bullet points?

He's saving the bullet-point presentation for opening arguments.

 

[Cimacoppi48]

He's saving the bullet-point presentation for opening arguments.

Confusing the jury is a strategy.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Confusing the jury is a strategy.

I used to play poker that way.
act confused and appear ill-informed