Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Benotti69]

Probably go a long way to wiping out Italy's national debt woes.....

They went after Valentino Rossi and they are after Dolce and Gabban so why not Ferarri?

It will look bad for the Italians when Armstrong gets done and all the stories about his doping doctor come out and the millons paid to him?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I acknowledge that Armstrong was the most effective doper. That's obvious. Are you trying to argue that Lance was somehow "worse" than any of his contemporary dopers?

No, Mark I am not, yet again you ignore that Armstrong was more than just a doper, when this is said you fall back, "yes, they all were dopers......".

I can't go there. They all were lying, doping cheats in a system that allowed them to flourish.

The feds gave immunity to Barry Bonds and Tammy Thomas when they investigated BALCO. No reason to think Tyler wouldn't get it. No competent lawyer would advise Tyler to talk about anything criminal without immunity. And the feds wouldn't care because they're not after Tyler. That's the basis for my spec.

What charges were Bonds & Thomas granted immunity from?

What criminal act has Tyler done?

The feds have probably found out a LOT about Lance Armstrong. Stuff that, if exposed, would probably blow his reputation to smithereens. But whether or not that material amounts to evidence sufficient to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt is an entirely more difficult question. We don't know what they have. You're just relying on the assumption that an investigation must result in an indictment. Like I said, it's the best argument you have.

No Mark - again I explained it, I am relying on the fact that Armstrong & his mob were engaged in fraud.

Must admit you do have loads of arguments - SOL, Lance was just a doper, Tyler did it, nothing happened, ok if it happened it happened abroad, no-one knows, wheres the indictments, Lance who, no-ones home.

 

[Velodude]

That's it, Mark. Keep it up, you're doing a fine job of hypnotizing yourself.

the Great Mezmer would have been proud.

Wishin' and hopin' and thinkin' and prayin'

 

[MarkvW]

No, Mark I am not, yet again you ignore that Armstrong was more than just a doper, when this is said you fall back, "yes, they all were dopers......".



What charges were Bonds & Thomas granted immunity from?

What criminal act has Tyler done?

No Mark - again I explained it, I am relying on the fact that Armstrong & his mob were engaged in fraud.

Must admit you do have loads of arguments - SOL, Lance was just a doper, Tyler did it, nothing happened, ok if it happened it happened abroad, no-one knows, wheres the indictments, Lance who, no-ones home.

I think that "just another doper" has a different meaning for you than it does for me. For me the knowing doper is the lowest form of human scum in athletics--the absolute lowest. Knowing dopers should get lifetime bans and all honors (including pre-doping honors) stripped from them. Any knowing doper engages in sporting fraud and that is one of the reasons why they are scum.

 

[Benotti69]

I think that "just another doper" has a different meaning for you than it does for me. For me the knowing doper is the lowest form of human scum in athletics--the absolute lowest. Knowing dopers should get lifetime bans and all honors (including pre-doping honors) stripped from them. Any knowing doper engages in sporting fraud and that is one of the reasons why they are scum.

what's that make a team captain/owner who makes others dope a la Armstrong?

 

[Granville57]

Anyway, Neil will ALWAYS have scoreboard:

Random Blowhard Jerk: "Well, you know I (fill in typical self-serving yet meaningless accomplishment)".

Neil Armstrong: "I walked on the moon".

Lance Armstrong: "But only once, right? Whatever, man."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think that "just another doper" has a different meaning for you than it does for me. For me the knowing doper is the lowest form of human scum in athletics--the absolute lowest. Knowing dopers should get lifetime bans and all honors (including pre-doping honors) stripped from them. Any knowing doper engages in sporting fraud and that is one of the reasons why they are scum.

Oh it does - because you are the one who repeats that Armstrong was just another doper. He wasn't.

 

[Microchip]

Funny you should say that.....perhaps the same guy helped with both?

Am thinking that the prescription he was on for the purpose of winning races, may have had the inadvertent effect of restoring his capacity to have children. I wonder if anyone asked about that.

 

[Polish]

Oh it does - because you are the one who repeats that Armstrong was just another doper. He wasn't.

Agree 100%.
Lance was NOT just another doper.
Duh.

BTW, wasn't Lance's Omerta Breaking E-Mail a heads up on Hemassist?
Hopefully it was followed up on.

 

[Velodude]

Oh it does - because you are the one who repeats that Armstrong was just another doper. He wasn't.

Armstrong was "just another doper" pre 1999 during Motorola days with a team doctor who was opposed to doping.

1993-1996 Best finish 36th. Three abandonments. Won one stage and had to be encouraged by his team to start the next day. Abandoned that day through fatigue.

Read the searchable "LA Confidentiel" and search under "Swart".

Stephen Swart informs Armstrong encouraged the use of EPO but team members came to their own arrangements and funding. EPO did not work for Swart during 1995 TdS and he was forced to abandon.

Difference in 1999 and thereafter was the presence of a doctor who was a doping guru, a new doping switched on DS (Bruyneel) and the team funding an organized doping program.

 

[MarkvW]

what's that make a team captain/owner who makes others dope a la Armstrong?

The lowest form of scum!

Along with all the riders who doped with him. It's not like Lance overbore any other rider's free will! They wanted to ride so bad that they doped. They could have said no.

Lance operated in a peloton where the doping pressures were intense across the board. Determining the relative pressures among the various teams is a waste of time. Lance and his teammates were all doping scum.

 

[Anonymous]

The lowest form of scum!

Along with all the riders who doped with him. It's not like Lance overbore any other rider's free will! They wanted to ride so bad that they doped. They could have said no.

Lance operated in a peloton where the doping pressures were intense across the board. Determining the relative pressures among the various teams is a waste of time. Lance and his teammates were all doping scum.

You know, at this point, it seems to me you are being very reasonable and aren't writing anything that is the least bit controversial.

Why don't all you guys just chill for a little bit. I know that may sound hypocritical coming from me, but I have to say, the last several pages are just slight deviations of the same old theme.

Charges will be filed or they won't. Only two choices.

Just because Mark isn't providing any real red meat to pounce on doesn't mean every single word of his posts needs 10 responses.

 

[Race Radio]

The lowest form of scum!

Along with all the riders who doped with him. It's not like Lance overbore any other rider's free will! They wanted to ride so bad that they doped. They could have said no.

Lance operated in a peloton where the doping pressures were intense across the board. Determining the relative pressures among the various teams is a waste of time. Lance and his teammates were all doping scum.

Not the same on all teams. But don't let that get in the way of this "Level Playing field" babble

Cyclevaughters: once I went to CA and saw that not all the teams got 25 injections every day

Cyclevaughters: hell, CA was ZERO

FDREU: you mean all the riders

Cyclevaughters: Credit Agricole

FDREU: it's crazy

Cyclevaughters: So, I realized lance was full of **** when he'd say everyone was doing it

FDREU: After 1999, you know many things changed. lance did not

FDREU: I believe that's part of whey kevin left, he was tired of the stuff

Cyclevaughters: but the thing is on that team, you think it's normal

Cyclevaughters: or at least i did

FDREU: i guess. anything with blodd is not normal

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The lowest form of scum!

You seem upset and very angry? Which is surprising in that you don't then want to see these "scum" (your view of them, not mine) punished accordingly?

Along with all the riders who doped with him. It's not like Lance overbore any other rider's free will! They wanted to ride so bad that they doped. They could have said no.

Bassons said no - name the rider who suggested he should leave the sport?

Lance operated in a peloton where the doping pressures were intense across the board. Determining the relative pressures among the various teams is a waste of time. Lance and his teammates were all doping scum.

Then the system should be exposed - and if anyone paid off that system they should be exposed and held accountable.

 

[Polish]

Charges will be filed or they won't. Only two choices.
.

Charges NOT being filed is the default.
That is the situation as it exists today.
Reality.
No choice was made - it is simply the way it is.

"Indictments being filed" is imaginary.
It is imaginary now and it may well stay imaginary forever.
Like Unicorns or Flying Monkeys or ManBearPig or Space Aliens or Witches.

So the 2 choices are - will indicments stay imaginary or will they become real.

BTW, Rumsas and Frigo as the only riders busted at the TdF under Lance's rule helped make my point. Can you name any other 7 year stretch with so few doping busts?

 

[MarkvW]

You seem upset and very angry? Which is surprising in that you don't then want to see these "scum" (your view of them, not mine) punished accordingly?


Bassons said no - name the rider who suggested he should leave the sport?


Then the system should be exposed - and if anyone paid off that system they should be exposed and held accountable.

"Punished accordingly?" According to what? The UCI? Don't make me laugh. There will never be appropriate sanction for all the doped riders. You may have faith in the UCI to "punish accordingly," but I don't.

Bassons is the exception that proves the rule. The peloton's will to dope was expressed quite forcefully in his case. I don't buy any of what RR is selling. The treatment of Simeoni and Manzano are two more examples.

 

[MarkvW]

Charges NOT being filed is the default.
That is the situation as it exists today.
Reality.
No choice was made - it is simply the way it is.

"Indictments being filed" is imaginary.
It is imaginary now and it may well stay imaginary forever.
Like Unicorns or Flying Monkeys or ManBearPig or Space Aliens or Witches.

So the 2 choices are - will indicments stay imaginary or will they become real.

BTW, Rumsas and Frigo as the only riders busted at the TdF under Lance's rule helped make my point. Can you name any other 7 year stretch with so few doping busts?

I'm still hoping that Lance has perjured himself before the GJ under a grant of immunity. No evidence of it, but it would be an absolutely Martha Stewart "good thing."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

"Punished accordingly?" According to what? The UCI? Don't make me laugh. There will never be appropriate sanction for all the doped riders. You may have faith in the UCI to "punish accordingly," but I don't.

You can stop laughing Mark, the UCI will not sanction athletes.

You do recall our discussion about USADA and Travis Tygart, don't you?

Bassons is the exception that proves the rule. The peloton's will to dope was expressed quite forcefully in his case. I don't buy any of what RR is selling. The treatment of Simeoni and Manzano are two more examples.

You should - as it might assist you in being consistent in your apparent outrage.

 

[Anonymous]

Charges NOT being filed is the default.
That is the situation as it exists today.
Reality.
No choice was made - it is simply the way it is.

"Indictments being filed" is imaginary.
It is imaginary now and it may well stay imaginary forever.
Like Unicorns or Flying Monkeys or ManBearPig or Space Aliens or Witches.

So the 2 choices are - will indicments stay imaginary or will they become real.

BTW, Rumsas and Frigo as the only riders busted at the TdF under Lance's rule helped make my point. Can you name any other 7 year stretch with so few doping busts?

Let it go. Seriously.

 

[MarkvW]

You can stop laughing Mark, the UCI will not sanction athletes.

You do recall our discussion about USADA and Travis Tygart, don't you?


You should - as it might assist you in being consistent in your apparent outrage.

What's WADA going to do, years after the fact? You're a lot more hopeful than I am. Maybe Lance gets sanctioned, but his teammates and rivals? Pro cycling SSDDD.

 

[Anonymous]

Charges NOT being filed is the default.
That is the situation as it exists today.
Reality.
No choice was made - it is simply the way it is.

"Indictments being filed" is imaginary.
It is imaginary now and it may well stay imaginary forever.
Like Unicorns or Flying Monkeys or ManBearPig or Space Aliens or Witches.

So the 2 choices are - will indicments stay imaginary or will they become real.

BTW, Rumsas and Frigo as the only riders busted at the TdF under Lance's rule helped make my point. Can you name any other 7 year stretch with so few doping busts?

When there is an investigation by the government, the likelihood of charges NOT being filed is not the default. Only someone completely ignorant of such things would make such a statement.

As for the TdF: 69-76, 80-87, 90-97. You don't actually know what you are talking about. But everyone knew that your post wasn't meant to be serious. Just another troll. It's cool, I don't take you seriously. Nobody should, and anymore, nobody does. Irrelevancy just like Lance. Sad.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What's WADA going to do, years after the fact? You're a lot more hopeful than I am. Maybe Lance gets sanctioned, but his teammates and rivals? Pro cycling SSDDD.

Can you not read? USADA.

You acknowledged the 8 years SOL earlier, you do remember that right?
I expect all the riders from the US to get sanctioned, DaveZ, Levi, George....
I thought you would be happy that all these "scum" (your words, not mine) would be held accountable.

 

[Anonymous]

What's WADA going to do, years after the fact? You're a lot more hopeful than I am. Maybe Lance gets sanctioned, but his teammates and rivals? Pro cycling SSDDD.

Okay, never mind, if you are going to keep arguing when you don't have anything to say, carry on.

I thought he was trying to be reasonable. Turns out he was just being subtle.

Have fun guys, see you in 5 more pages. (I do the maximum number of posts per page, so that will probably take like 2 days.)

 

[MarkvW]

Can you not read? USADA.

You acknowledged the 8 years SOL earlier, you do remember that right?
I expect all the riders from the US to get sanctioned, DaveZ, Levi, George....
I thought you would be happy that all these "scum" (your words, not mine) would be held accountable.

WADA/USADA, whatever.

I agree they can be, and even might be, but I'm still not hopeful. Would be neat.

 

[Polish]

When there is an investigation by the government, the likelihood of charges NOT being filed is not the default. Only someone completely ignorant of such things would make such a statement.
.

Do some research into why Grand Juries are secret.
Important. Almost sacred.

Lance has not been indicted. That is reality.
I'm sure you will let me know if that changes.