Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Neworld]

Lance tested positive at the 1999 Tour. And then he got out of it. Special treatment. Book sales. Cash cow became apparent. Moo.

Interesting, Lance was only the "patron" during the Tour?
Maybe he paid off for everyone. He is so generous like that.

Pantani got busted 1999 Giro. I bet he was really mad about Lance not riding the Giro. Good thing though, when Lance did ride the Giro he whined because it was too hard of a race for him.

Berzin the 2000 Giro. SSDD

Frigo the 2001 Giro. Starting to see a pattern. Tough luck they busted Frigo on the way to the Tour later that year because if he'd gotten there, he would have been safe.

Pantani at the 2001 Giro too. Sick 'em UCI, sick 'em!

Garzelli at the 2002 Giro. Dude, seriously?

Rumsas 2002 TOUR. There goes your theory.

Simoni 2002 Giro. Cocaine. Probably visited The Yellow Rose.

Rumsas again Giro 2003. Donkey. Eeeeeawwww

Millar 2004, admitted but never tested positive. Where have I heard the phrase "never tested positive" before?

Frigo ejected from the 2005 Tour. Holes in your story.

Heras 2005 Vuelta. They always turned bad after they left the fold.

Dirty, dirty period in cycling. Sad. Will be remembered (really, it will be forgotten which is better anyway) as the dark ages.

Need to go take a shower.

Excellent catalogue of events TFF.

Are you sure you'd like to post facts, or use rational thought, for Poor Polish? Ubiquitous futility for sure.

I know that TFF knows this but no Polish Lance wasn't the only one who used Microdosing EPO, most did. It was and is cheap and easy to control. But, what most racers couldn't afford was the team doping, the cost of Autologous blood harvesting/storing/administration, and buying off race officials and the UCI. Those are the major differences that took an above average rider and churned him into the champion junky his was and will always be.

NW

 

[The Plediadian]

Curiously Ferrari was not referenced in any capacity in Armstrong's first biography released in 2000 "It's Not About the Bike: My Journey Back to Life".

The Ferrari/Armstrong secret relationship was "outed" in 2001 but Armstrong defended by falsely claiming Ferrari only acted as a data collector in Europe for his real coach, Chris Carmichael.

An association with Ferrari was extremely risky as it placed a rider on the high suspect list of doping.

Manzano was administered by the team quack with an unknown drug. He later found out it to be Oxyglobin, a veterinary hemoglobin-based oxygen carrier or blood substitute to which he had a reaction.

One of the prospective allegations against Armstrong as reported by Sports Illustrated is that he had possession of a similar unapproved product called HemAssist.

Simeoni was subpoenaed to appear as a witness in February 2002 at Ferrari's sporting fraud trial. Are you indicating he should have run the risk of perjury and honor the omerta code?

All the Festina 1998 riders involved in the doping ring finally confessed in a French court after initial resistance

It is odd that Lance used an unapproved medicine and became a champion and Manzano used a similar medicine and got sick.
Also it is odd that Ferrari is a free man. Even if fingered by Simeoni.
Hmm?
Would you also conclude that all riders coached by Eddie Borysewicz
were dopers?
"Why doesn't he (Chris Carmichael) produce Lances? That's his job. And anyway, Lance is not his product. Lance is my product." Eddie B.
It would be interesting to list all the riders coached by Eddie B. and Dr. Ferrari, and draw parallels.
Were they all dopers? I don't think so.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Dr. F. is a family friend of the Armstrongs, someone who is invited to christenings and BBQs, no harm no foul with their relationships.

Off subject, whom was monitoring Manzanos' transfussions?
Simeoni was one who had issue with omerta yes. Only after he was caught though.

Probably just coincidence that a brand new pro-Lance poster shows up right now with knowledge of everyone and everything that has been discussed here in the past.

Yeah yeah, I know "long time lurker, new poster" bla bla.

 

[Race Radio]

It is odd that Lance used an unapproved medicine and became a champion and Manzano used a similar medicine and got sick.
Also it is odd that Ferrari is a free man. Even if fingered by Simeoni.
Hmm?
Would you also conclude that all riders coached by Eddie Borysewicz
were dopers?
"Why doesn't he (Chris Carmichael) produce Lances? That's his job. And anyway, Lance is not his product. Lance is my product." Eddie B.
It would be interesting to list all the riders coached by Eddie B. and Dr. Ferrari, and draw parallels.
Were they all dopers? I don't think so.

Ferrari is in serious trouble, he will not be a free man for long.

Manzano did not get sick from Hemassist, He got sick from Oxyglobin. Hemassist is derived from human blood, Oxyglobin comes from a cow and was only approved for use in animals. Ultimately it appears what got Manzano sick thought was a miss handled blood bag

 

[Velodude]

It is odd that Lance used an unapproved medicine and became a champion and Manzano used a similar medicine and got sick.
Also it is odd that Ferrari is a free man. Even if fingered by Simeoni.
Hmm?
Would you also conclude that all riders coached by Eddie Borysewicz
were dopers?
"Why doesn't he (Chris Carmichael) produce Lances? That's his job. And anyway, Lance is not his product. Lance is my product." Eddie B.
It would be interesting to list all the riders coached by Eddie B. and Dr. Ferrari, and draw parallels.
Were they all dopers? I don't think so.

Ferrari was convicted for sporting fraud and prescription irregularities. It was overturned on appeal due to the statute of limitations on the evidence that convicted him.

Raceradio is correct. If you were observant enough I referred to Oxyglobin as a veterinary product. Therein lies Manzano's problems or, more correctly, his team, Kelme, for administering.

Not too many riders coached by Ferrari over the years. Armstrong had him tied up with an exclusive agreement.

Both Eddie Borysewicz and Ferrari were into doping. Armstrong served his apprenticeship under Eddie B who was well known as being one of the architects of the LA 84 blood doping scandal.

When results were not working out for LA in Europe he pleaded with Eddy Merckx to introduce him to the renown and incomparable Dr.Ferrari. Ferrari first refused but then took Armstrong on for 1996. Suspicions he was responsible for Armstrong's testicular cancer.

 

[Berzin]

Ferrari is in serious trouble, he will not be a free man for long.

I hope this happens soon. I've always said the key to the whole investigation isn't Armstrong but Ferrari.

Manzano did not get sick from Hemassist, He got sick from Oxyglobin. Hemassist is derived from human blood, Oxyglobin comes from a cow and was only approved for use in animals. Ultimately it appears what got Manzano sick thought was a miss handled blood bag.

The Vuelta, for many years, had been a special race in more ways than one. The doping shenanigans that took place over the years that really could not have happened in Italy or France in their respective grand tours really made a mockery of the anti-doping process.

As a side note, I wonder who'll take this thread into it's celebratory 1,000th page, soon to be followed by the 10,000th post...

 

[Berzin]

As a side note, I wonder who'll take this thread into it's celebratory 10,000th page...

 

[L'arriviste]

Ferrari was convicted for sporting fraud and prescription irregularities. It was overturned on appeal due to the statute of limitations on the evidence that convicted him...

Yes, Ferrari was acquitted on appeal for lack of evidence directly linking him to the activities [sources].

Proof of a causal link continues to be a weakness in otherwise generally exhaustive Italian investigations and the difficulty of finding it explains the reasons for the comical but effective use of a camper van in more recent times.

Of course, it should be clear to all but the narrowest of minds that none of this supports the hair splitting from Armstrong apologists on this thread. What it does support is the fact that law and justice are mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[thehog]

Probably just coincidence that a brand new pro-Lance poster shows up right now with knowledge of everyone and everything that has been discussed here in the past.

Yeah yeah, I know "long time lurker, new poster" bla bla.

I thought the same!

 

[Poursuivant]

I have been intrigued by the possibility of Lance using HemAssist. I don't understand how it could be acquired, surely there can't be too much of it in supply. How serious a charge would this be, if an indictment came?

 

[RownhamHill]

As a side note, I wonder who'll take this thread into it's celebratory 1,000th page, soon to be followed by the 10,000th post...

I think fitting that it was the Hog who took us to 1,000 pages, especially given that it happened on a Tuesday. But who is for post number 10,000?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think fitting that it was the Hog who took us to 1,000 pages, especially given that it happened on a Tuesday. But who is for post number 10,000?

Nah, when the Mods fish out all the BPC posts and the responses (including this one) the thread will lose a load of pages. Maybe next Tuesday...

 

[JA.Tri]

I read 30 posts to a page so I am(we are??) only up to page 334.

To substance... looking forward to more news of Lance's status.

 

[thehog]

I thought the same!

Thanks Hog and congratulations on 1000 pages! Keep Postingstrong!


Saw this today thought it was interesting on trademark bullies:

Abhyanker wasn’t the first to call aggressive trademark opposers “bullies.” He borrowed the term from the United States Patent and Trademark Office, which used the term when asking for comments on the extent to which small businesses could be harmed by aggressive trademark litigation tactics. There are cases when he agrees that the term is appropriate.

“Do people know when they donate money [to Livestrong] that a lot of it goes to fighting anything that has to do with the word ‘strong’?” he says.

http://mashable.com/2012/01/24/apple-zynga-facebook-trademark-bullies/

 

[Race Radio]

I have been intrigued by the possibility of Lance using HemAssist. I don't understand how it could be acquired, surely there can't be too much of it in supply. How serious a charge would this be, if an indictment came?

Don't worry, you will know soon enough. It is disturbing.

 

[thehog]

Don't worry, you will know soon enough. It is disturbing.

Tell us!! He’d better have not acquired through private drug trials and then sold It on.

The other day I got caught waiting in train station. It had free Wi-Fi in the waiting room so I started to watch a little bit of youTube.

Went over the 2005 Tour one more time.

Looking back and connecting the dots the whole race looks weird. He looks ridiculously strong. He is so much bigger than all the other riders but still has no problems riding and setting the pace on the mountains. No one stood a chance to be honest.

 

[MarkvW]

I have been intrigued by the possibility of Lance using HemAssist. I don't understand how it could be acquired, surely there can't be too much of it in supply. How serious a charge would this be, if an indictment came?

No chance of seeing a dope possession/use charge. Five year limitation period. Jurisdictional issues (use/possession happened in foreign country). Feds wouldn't focus mass resources on a simple sports doper just for use/possession.

Some people speculate that Armstrong might be charged with a drug delivery crime, but I don't see sufficient facts to warrant it (but the investigation is secret). As Tyler said, Lance was doing what everybody else was doing. It has the same 5 year limitation period.

Some people here are convinced that Armstrong will be indicted for conspiracy or RICO (organized crime) and that such a charge may have a drug component. The best argument for this, apparently, is that because the feds are investigating, charges must follow. That argument is weak.

The investigation is secret. Nobody here knows.

 

[hektoren]

Who is this Lance Armstrong-guy anyway?

 

[RownhamHill]

Nah, when the Mods fish out all the BPC posts and the responses (including this one) the thread will lose a load of pages. Maybe next Tuesday...

Hold on, wait. If that was a response to a BPC post, then that makes me a BPC poster?

In all honesty I'm never been exactly sure what that means (they're some kind of paid Lance-a-trons?), but I understand enough that it's not a compliment.

Nice one.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

No chance of seeing a dope possession/use charge. Five year limitation period. Jurisdictional issues (use/possession happened in foreign country). Feds wouldn't focus mass resources on a simple sports doper just for use/possession.

Agree with the highlighted....

Some people speculate that Armstrong might be charged with a drug delivery crime, but I don't see sufficient facts to warrant it (but the investigation is secret). As Tyler said, Lance was doing what everybody else was doing. It has the same 5 year limitation period.

....although this highlighted does not tally with your earlier piece.

If everyone was doing it then why are the Feds concentrating on Armstrong and his mob?

Some people here are convinced that Armstrong will be indicted for conspiracy or RICO (organized crime) and that such a charge may have a drug component. The best argument for this, apparently, is that because the feds are investigating, charges must follow. That argument is weak.

The investigation is secret. Nobody here knows.

Actually, the best argument is that Armstrong was doping throughout his career and that the company he was an officer of is behind much of that fraud. If Armstrong did nothing wrong, he should not be scared of a thorough investigation, indeed he should welcome it. But.....

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Hold on, wait. If that was a response to a BPC post, then that makes me a BPC poster?

In all honesty I'm never been exactly sure what that means (they're some kind of paid Lance-a-trons?), but I understand enough that it's not a compliment.

Nice one.

Easy Tiger, I said "this response" which meant my response, not yours.
BPC isn't paid. Just misguided.

 

[Velodude]

I have been intrigued by the possibility of Lance using HemAssist. I don't understand how it could be acquired, surely there can't be too much of it in supply. How serious a charge would this be, if an indictment came?

They do not have to prove Armstrong used HemAssist or any other drug. Or the PED efficacy of the drug. That is a point lost on Armstrong's apologists.

To possess an unapproved drug is a breach of Federal laws.

You will note in the Sports Illustratedreport the Fed's investigation is enquiring on possession

A few years earlier, according to a source familiar with the government's investigation of Armstrong, the Texan became interested in Baxter Healthcare Corp., a company based in Deerfield, Ill., that focuses in part on developing drugs to treat hemophilia. According to that source, the FDA has information that Armstrong gained access to a Baxter-made drug in clinical trial in the U.S. and Europe in the late 1990s. According to public records, a study on a drug called Diaspirin Cross-Linked Hemoglobin (DCLHb) began in early 1997 and ended in 1998. Baxter developed the drug, whose trade name is HemAssist, for use in cases of extreme blood loss, such as by shock and trauma victims; in animal studies it was shown to boost the blood's oxygen-carrying capacity without the thickening caused by EPO. The human trials were ended, however, after a number of patients died—though not necessarily from the drug's effects; some of the trauma victims were likely to have died anyway.

 

[Race Radio]

No chance of seeing a dope possession/use charge. Five year limitation period. Jurisdictional issues (use/possession happened in foreign country). Feds wouldn't focus mass resources on a simple sports doper just for use/possession.

Some people speculate that Armstrong might be charged with a drug delivery crime, but I don't see sufficient facts to warrant it (but the investigation is secret). As Tyler said, Lance was doing what everybody else was doing. It has the same 5 year limitation period.

Some people here are convinced that Armstrong will be indicted for conspiracy or RICO (organized crime) and that such a charge may have a drug component. The best argument for this, apparently, is that because the feds are investigating, charges must follow. That argument is weak.

The investigation is secret. Nobody here knows.

You are welcome to pretend this for a little while longer. Multiple recent witness of activity in the US. Witnesses are allowed to talk about what they saw and they have.

 

[RownhamHill]

Easy Tiger, I said "this response" which meant my response, not yours.
BPC isn't paid. Just misguided.

H'mmm - but you were responding to my post. . .

In any case, I'll take that as an apology, and accept it graciously.

 

[Velodude]

I read 30 posts to a page so I am(we are??) only up to page 334.

To substance... looking forward to more news of Lance's status.

Your User CP has an option for number of posts to display. Set "Default" and join the throng.