Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[jackwolf]

Who is this Lance Armstrong-guy anyway?

Isn't he that bloke that went to the moon?

Ha ha, I once feigned ignorance and intentionally said this to a fanboy who mentioned him to me in a pub in San Diego. The look on his face was priceless.

 

[Velodude]

No chance of seeing a dope possession/use charge. Five year limitation period. Jurisdictional issues (use/possession happened in foreign country). Feds wouldn't focus mass resources on a simple sports doper just for use/possession.

Some people speculate that Armstrong might be charged with a drug delivery crime, but I don't see sufficient facts to warrant it (but the investigation is secret). As Tyler said, Lance was doing what everybody else was doing. It has the same 5 year limitation period.

Some people here are convinced that Armstrong will be indicted for conspiracy or RICO (organized crime) and that such a charge may have a drug component. The best argument for this, apparently, is that because the feds are investigating, charges must follow. That argument is weak.

The investigation is secret. Nobody here knows.

Counselor, you wish.

 

[Oldman]

Isn't he that bloke that went to the moon?

Ha ha, I once feigned ignorance and intentionally said this to a fanboy who mentioned him to me in a pub in San Diego. The look on his face was priceless.

The true hero was Neil.

 

[Microchip]

Ferrari is in serious trouble, he will not be a free man for long.

This would be a very interesting development, as he may name names if he got arrested.

 

[thehog]

Isn't he that bloke that went to the moon?

Ha ha, I once feigned ignorance and intentionally said this to a fanboy who mentioned him to me in a pub in San Diego. The look on his face was priceless.

He’s a an awesome dude. Totally fly. He currently doing provincial bike rides and turning up in countries who have no idea about the on-going investigation and flogging off some old spin bikes. He’s amazing athlete and a true inspiration. I for one wouldn’t be riding my bike if it wasn’t for Lance.

 

[thehog]

This would be a very interesting development, as he may name names if he got arrested.

Doubt it. Any government knows when local athletes and teams are doing well the heat is taken off government inadequacies. I’d say he’s above the law in Italy. He’s bigger now than he ever was.

Ferrari is certainly the Don. It would be a massive bust if they bring him down. My thinking is he’ll be in the Canneries and not spending much time in Italy. Extradition anyone?

 

[Microchip]

Originally Posted by Poursuivant
I have been intrigued by the possibility of Lance using HemAssist. I don't understand how it could be acquired, surely there can't be too much of it in supply. How serious a charge would this be, if an indictment came?

Don't worry, you will know soon enough. It is disturbing.

Intriguing. And perhaps may or will explain how he is HAVING CHILDREN naturally.

 

[MarkvW]

Agree with the highlighted....



....although this highlighted does not tally with your earlier piece.

If everyone was doing it then why are the Feds concentrating on Armstrong and his mob?



Actually, the best argument is that Armstrong was doping throughout his career and that the company he was an officer of is behind much of that fraud. If Armstrong did nothing wrong, he should not be scared of a thorough investigation, indeed he should welcome it. But.....

Perhaps I should have been more precise. It appears to me that from the point of view of a prosecutor considering whether or not to charge someone with a crime, it would appear that Lance didn't do anything different from Tyler and others on his team when it came to drug ingestion or delivery. It wouldn't be fair to give Tyler immunity (I assume they did) and then charge Lance with the same thing. That sort of thing does not play well in front of a jury. I still think that Lance was on a more effective program than anybody else, but the niceties of training and doping are not something criminal prosecutors would care about.

Your best argument is conclusory. We don't know if the feds have evidence to back it up. They might, and then again they might not. The clock ticks on.

And Maserati, nobody (including the innocent) welcomes a federal criminal investigation.
Anyone who says they do is not telling the truth.

 

[Benotti69]

Doubt it. Any government knows when local athletes and teams are doing well the heat is taken off government inadequacies. I’d say he’s above the law in Italy. He’s bigger now than he ever was.

Ferrari is certainly the Don. It would be a massive bust if they bring him down. My thinking is he’ll be in the Canneries and not spending much time in Italy. Extradition anyone?

The Guardia di Finanzia would be very interested in unpaid taxes Ferarri would have avoided on his doping programs.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

The true hero was Neil.

Actually he's kind of a jerk too!

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

We don't know if the feds have evidence to back it up. They might, and then again they might not. The clock ticks on.

And Maserati, nobody (including the innocent) welcomes a federal criminal investigation.
Anyone who says they do is not telling the truth.

The longer the clock ticks the worse it is for Armstrong and associates.

If one had nothing to hide why would one be worried by any investigation?

 

[MarkvW]

You are welcome to pretend this for a little while longer. Multiple recent witness of activity in the US. Witnesses are allowed to talk about what they saw and they have.

Who?
What were they asked?
What did they say?

Or is this just another anonymous poster hinting at superior withheld knowledge?

I'm certainly willing to revise my opinion that there's no way to predict an indictment or no indictment, but there has to be SOME evidence . . ..

 

[Race Radio]

Who?
What were they asked?
What did they say?

Or is this just another anonymous poster hinting at superior withheld knowledge?

I'm certainly willing to revise my opinion that there's no way to predict an indictment or no indictment, but there has to be SOME evidence . . ..

Here is a hint

Don't worry, there are plenty of people talking.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Perhaps I should have been more precise.

Perhaps you should just acknowledge that "Lance was not just another doper"? That would be precise and accurate.

It appears to me that from the point of view of a prosecutor considering whether or not to charge someone with a crime, it would appear that Lance didn't do anything different from Tyler and others on his team when it came to drug ingestion or delivery. It wouldn't be fair to give Tyler immunity (I assume they did) and then charge Lance with the same thing. That sort of thing does not play well in front of a jury. I still think that Lance was on a more effective program than anybody else, but the niceties of training and doping are not something criminal prosecutors would care about.

Repeat, rinse..... didn't you acknowledge earlier that the Feds wouldn't waste their time on chasing doping athletes? So what immunity would Tyler get if the Feds are not investigating doping athletes?

Your best argument is conclusory. We don't know if the feds have evidence to back it up. They might, and then again they might not. The clock ticks on.

And Maserati, nobody (including the innocent) welcomes a federal criminal investigation.
Anyone who says they do is not telling the truth.

Even you acknowledge Armstrong doped - you think the Feds won't find out how it was funded and carried off? Good luck with that.

 

[Race Radio]

Intriguing. And perhaps may or will explain how he is HAVING CHILDREN naturally.

Funny you should say that.....perhaps the same guy helped with both?

 

[Velodude]

The Guardia di Finanzia would be very interested in unpaid taxes Ferarri would have avoided on his doping programs.

Particularly the millions of Euro frozen in his Swiss bank account.

Sophia Loren went to prison for being naughty with her Italian taxes. Why not Dr. Ferrari?

 

[Velodude]

Perhaps I should have been more precise. It appears to me that from the point of view of a prosecutor considering whether or not to charge someone with a crime, it would appear that Lance didn't do anything different from Tyler and others on his team when it came to drug ingestion or delivery. It wouldn't be fair to give Tyler immunity (I assume they did) and then charge Lance with the same thing. That sort of thing does not play well in front of a jury. I still think that Lance was on a more effective program than anybody else, but the niceties of training and doping are not something criminal prosecutors would care about.

Your best argument is conclusory. We don't know if the feds have evidence to back it up. They might, and then again they might not. The clock ticks on.

And Maserati, nobody (including the innocent) welcomes a federal criminal investigation.
Anyone who says they do is not telling the truth.

Counselor, you are missing the point.

I presume your references to Tyler & Floyd were whilst they were members of LA's team.

In the Federal statute books and precedents there is no charge that can be brought against Floyd, Tyler and the great man himself for partaking in PEDs.

Armstrong sets himself apart, despite his hollow and disprovable denials, by being a shareholder, director and decision maker of the criminal enterprise that breached numerous Federal laws in making those PEDs available.

So Lancie distinguished himself differently from Tyler & Floyd by being in the chain of command that made it happen. His position and conduct made him culpable.

 

[MarkvW]

The longer the clock ticks the worse it is for Armstrong and associates.

If one had nothing to hide why would one be worried by any investigation?

(1). Time is almost always the friend of the criminal. But for the statute of limitations, Lance would be at big time risk for prosecution for simple possession and use of controlled substances. That's one benefit. Also, memories fade and evidence is lost over time. Delay, in all its forms, is Armstrong's friend. One more day means one more chance for a flaw in the government's investigation to be discovered . . .

(2). You can't be serious! Do you think "innocent" Alpuerto Clenbutador welcomes HIS investigations? And they're not even a federal criminal investigation. The McCarthy Era is a wonderful example of the power of a federal investigation to wreak havoc on innocent people.

 

[Race Radio]

The more interesting part of this case will be what happens to the enablers.....and the dupes.

There is a long history of enablers. Guys like Duffy, Spencer, Pepi, transporters, Hackers etc.. It will be interesting how the willing, and unwitting, enablers react to the Feds showing up at their door. Can't see how guys like Stapleton, Knaggs, and their contractors walk away from this. Some will flip others will go down with the ship.

Some like to pretend this is about some silly stuff that happened long ago in a far away land, good luck that that fairy tale.

Tic, Tic, Tic. Time is running out

 

[MacRoadie]

Actually he's kind of a jerk too!

He's a "jerk" because people have trampled over his privacy for the past 43 years.

Anyway, Neil will ALWAYS have scoreboard:

Random Blowhard Jerk: "Well, you know I (fill in typical self-serving yet meaningless accomplishment)".

Neil Armstrong: "I walked on the moon".

 

[MarkvW]

Perhaps you should just acknowledge that "Lance was not just another doper"? That would be precise and accurate.




Repeat, rinse..... didn't you acknowledge earlier that the Feds wouldn't waste their time on chasing doping athletes? So what immunity would Tyler get if the Feds are not investigating doping athletes?


Even you acknowledge Armstrong doped - you think the Feds won't find out how it was funded and carried off? Good luck with that.

I acknowledge that Armstrong was the most effective doper. That's obvious. Are you trying to argue that Lance was somehow "worse" than any of his contemporary dopers? I can't go there. They all were lying, doping cheats in a system that allowed them to flourish.

The feds gave immunity to Barry Bonds and Tammy Thomas when they investigated BALCO. No reason to think Tyler wouldn't get it. No competent lawyer would advise Tyler to talk about anything criminal without immunity. And the feds wouldn't care because they're not after Tyler. That's the basis for my spec.

The feds have probably found out a LOT about Lance Armstrong. Stuff that, if exposed, would probably blow his reputation to smithereens. But whether or not that material amounts to evidence sufficient to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt is an entirely more difficult question. We don't know what they have. You're just relying on the assumption that an investigation must result in an indictment. Like I said, it's the best argument you have.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

The Guardia di Finanzia would be very interested in unpaid taxes Ferarri would have avoided on his doping programs.

Probably go a long way to wiping out Italy's national debt woes.....

 

[Berzin]

That's it, Mark. Keep it up, you're doing a fine job of hypnotizing yourself.

The Great Mezmer would have been proud.

 

[Benotti69]

(1). Time is almost always the friend of the criminal. But for the statute of limitations, Lance would be at big time risk for prosecution for simple possession and use of controlled substances. That's one benefit. Also, memories fade and evidence is lost over time. Delay, in all its forms, is Armstrong's friend. One more day means one more chance for a flaw in the government's investigation to be discovered . . .

It also allows the feds to collect the evidence properly and more of it. In Armstrongs case a very honest picture about the type of person he truly is has come out about him and that will have brought people forward to give information who may have not come forward or talked before. Also the the domino effect in evidence gathering would've benefitted from more time not less. Landis fell, then Tyler, the Big George etc.....

(2). You can't be serious! Do you think "innocent" Alpuerto Clenbutador welcomes HIS investigations? And they're not even a federal criminal investigation. The McCarthy Era is a wonderful example of the power of a federal investigation to wreak havoc on innocent people.

Contador aint innocent in my book and neither as we all know is Armstrong. And if you are trying to compare Novitsky to McCarthy, fail, but feel free to compare Armstrong to Capone should you so wish

 

[MarkvW]

That's it, Mark. Keep it up, you're doing a fine job of hypnotizing yourself.

the Great Mezmer would have been proud.

But I'm not saying the feds are not going to indict Armstrong!

Is belief in an indictment an article of faith, or something like that?