Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[blackcat]

DSM IV Dave?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

* i absolutely refuse to consider it a charity. It is a brand using cancer as a marketing tool.

I feel that it will become a cult before long as the media turn on it when the full facts about how Gunderson has used it as a slush fund and the Universities and other large institutions refuse to have anything to do with it/him.

Alas, I think it's too late...

What is interesting is America believes in 'God' (at least the Christian one) more than any other country on earth. It's how they think, how they formulate beliefs, and what keeps them up at night... http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_comp.htm

If you've been inculcated with that way of thinking - that there is a system out there that is better and more important than you, and that there are manifest physical examples of that system, and you buy into it... Well, then you're going to end up with a whole group of people that are on the thin edge of 'worshiping' whatever example you put in front of them.

People want to believe. Who wouldn't want to? The universe is cold and impersonal. "Give meaning to this"...

The problem is that belief/faith and investigative thought end up being mutually exclusive. When those two things start butting heads, there is no wiggle room. It's 'game on' of the most horrid order...

LiveStrong as a cult? Sh*t! They're pushing Scientology out of first-place in the race for most *** quasi-religion.

 

[Granville57]

It's a beautiful story and it's a lie. Does this story remind you of anyone in the world of cycling.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7363068n&tag=related;photovideo

Gunderson & co read this guy's playbook.

The parallels are all there...in stunning fashion. Word for word.
And as The Hog pointed out, the comments follow the script perfectly as well!

There's really nothing more I can add to this. It's all just so...familiar.

Jon Krakauer’s closing comments seem almost prophetic:

He has done a lot of good...

He has become perhaps the world’s most effective spokesperson for [insert charitable cause].

Nevertheless, he is now threatening to bring it all down, to destroy all of it by this fraud, and by these lies.

 

[D-Queued]

DSM IV Dave?

Yes. Should probably refer to Gunderson's tendencies as potential symptoms of Code 301.7 APD. 'Sociopath' may have too strong a stigma.

Treatment

Treatment for this disorder is very rarely sought. There is a limited amount of insight into the symptoms, and the negative consequences are often blamed on society

Not going all high society here, but I suppose French society still counts as 'society' in some circles.

Dave.

 

[Topangarider]

The American Institute of Philanthropy, the org that 60 Minutes relied upon in it's analysis of Mortenson last night, had the following to say about boy wonder's charity:
"The Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF), founded by the champion bicyclist and cancer survivor of the same name, is celebrating its 10-year anniversary this year. Wouldn’t you think a charity that receives massive publicity for having one of the most popular causes and most admired celebrities as the face of the organization would be able to easily raise lots of money? Unfortunately this is not the case. LAF spent as much as $45 to raise each $100, exceeding AIP’s 35% recommended fundraising ceiling by a significant margin. While LAF had difficulty raising contributions efficiently, it did prove to be a savvy merchandise marketer. LAF sold over $24 million in merchandise, including the ubiquitous yellow “LIVESTRONG” wristband, as well as clothing, sports gear and even dog leashes. Yet after spending $10 million in solicitation costs, the group brought in only $22 million in contributions, according to AIP’s analysis of LAF’s 2005 financial statements."

This is obviously dated info (Aug 2007) as the charity changed it's name to Livestrong. Nonetheless, it's interesting.

http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/cancer.html

 

[Merckx index]

It's a beautiful story and it's a lie. Does this story remind you of anyone in the world of cycling.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7363068n&tag=related;photovideo

Someone please reassure me that Paul Farmer is for real.

http://outsideonline.com/adventure/travel-ga-greg-mortenson-interview-sidwcmdev_155690.html?page=6

In Africa and Asia, there’s something called a confidence trick. Have you heard the term? The first two, three, four years, you do well and you’re reliable and accountable. Then you try some grafting and see what the response is. Maybe it’s nothing, or it might be hard. Then you put in the real whammy and take people to the cleaners.
 
What this man did to me was like the ultimate confidence trick. It took him about 13 years. One thing he did, for example, was double-dipping. We have a school called Astana, which is near Skardu. When we backed that one, he submitted proposals, we looked, everything looked great, the community was involved, and that school was built.

 

[DirtyWorks]

i beg to differ. We know how much has been spent on a gulfstream jet which has been used to fly around the world.

Building a brand new state of the art HQ.

We also know how much was given to research, a minuscle amount compared to how much the 'awareness brand'* generates.
...
when the full facts about how Gunderson has used it as a slush fund and the Universities and other large institutions refuse to have anything to do with it/him.

All of these accusations can very easily be dismissed. For example, the HQ project, there's nothing illegal about a charity building an office for itself. Neither is the .org paying for jet fuel to shuttle its leader around. Common sense suggests it's not a wise allocation of funds, but that's about it.

The devil really is in the details. Until there's specific evidence that some regulations were broken, the best we've been able to ascertain is the line between the .com and .org is blurry.

If as some suggest there is an investigation AND it gets as far as serious regulations violated, ideally there's a very public perp-walk from both the .org and .com sides of the alleged scam.

 

[blackcat]

Yes. Should probably refer to Gunderson's tendencies as potential symptoms of Code 301.7 APD. 'Sociopath' may have too strong a stigma.



Not going all high society here, but I suppose French society still counts as 'society' in some circles.

Dave.

Dave, go High Society, I think it is a Brit porn mag about 3 levels below Hustler for quality, if that is not a dichotomy used in that context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Society_(magazine)

actually its Yankee

 

[D-Queued]

... the following headlines:

Lance Armstrong: Champion Cyclist and Water Waster?

Lance Armstrong: Champion Water User

Lance Armstrong is Top Residential Water User in Austin

In the News: Lance Armstrong's a Champion of Water Wasting

Tour de Faux Pas: Lance Armstrong Becomes Austin’s Top HH Water Consumer

"...Ironically one of the “Dares” you can take on Armstrong’s healthy living LiveStrong website is to drink more water"

"...one of the biggest users of water in the whole state"

"...the retired cyclist has consistently used a gluttonous amount of water in his Austin home..."

Gluttony. Right up there with lust and greed on the seven deadly list.

“There’s no justification for that much water.” He added, “I need to fix this (by draining the reservoir).”

...

Dave.

Anyone else see the linkage?

Texas Wildfires 2011: Season Among Worst In State History

Dave.

 

[patricknd]

Anyone else see the linkage?

Texas Wildfires 2011: Season Among Worst In State History

Dave.

If it weren't for lance we could have watered Texas. Of course that would take some pretty long hoses.....

 

[rhubroma]

So I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that the FBI, working in conjunction with the French Interpol, Italian NAS and the Swiss, have traced a full 15 MILLION euro in deposits to a Swiss bank account held by Michele Ferrari.

It has also been determined that many transfers came from across the Atlantic.

The circle seems to be closing in.

 

[Benotti69]

All of these accusations can very easily be dismissed. For example, the HQ project, there's nothing illegal about a charity building an office for itself. Neither is the .org paying for jet fuel to shuttle its leader around. Common sense suggests it's not a wise allocation of funds, but that's about it.

The devil really is in the details. Until there's specific evidence that some regulations were broken, the best we've been able to ascertain is the line between the .com and .org is blurry.

If as some suggest there is an investigation AND it gets as far as serious regulations violated, ideally there's a very public perp-walk from both the .org and .com sides of the alleged scam.

No it is not illegal to build a new HQ but when the many of major charities don't spend their money building hi tech HQs it begs he question why would a small 'awareness slush fund' aka LiveWrong needs to.

the line between .com and ,org is defo a breach of advertising regulations imo, but i doubt anyone is going to pursue that.

 

[Benotti69]

So I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that the FBI, working in conjunction with the French Interpol, Italian NAS and the Swiss, have traced a full 15 MILLION euro in deposits to a Swiss bank account held by Michele Ferrari.

It has also been determined that many transfers came from across the Atlantic.

The circle seems to be closing in.

or to pursue the latest water wasting headlines, the trickle is turning into a fountain

 

[slowspoke]

So I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that the FBI, working in conjunction with the French Interpol, Italian NAS and the Swiss, have traced a full 15 MILLION euro in deposits to a Swiss bank account held by Michele Ferrari.

It has also been determined that many transfers came from across the Atlantic.

The circle seems to be closing in.

Link please! I couldn't find it.

 

[Stingray34]

So I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that the FBI, working in conjunction with the French Interpol, Italian NAS and the Swiss, have traced a full 15 MILLION euro in deposits to a Swiss bank account held by Michele Ferrari.

It has also been determined that many transfers came from across the Atlantic.

The circle seems to be closing in.

Interesting. How reliable is Gazzetta?

 

[BroDeal]

So I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that the FBI, working in conjunction with the French Interpol, Italian NAS and the Swiss, have traced a full 15 MILLION euro in deposits to a Swiss bank account held by Michele Ferrari.

It has also been determined that many transfers came from across the Atlantic.

The circle seems to be closing in.

LOLZ. I wonder how the clients accounted for the expense. Sounds like tip toeing through a minefield of tax evasion and money laundering.

 

[python]

Interesting. How reliable is Gazzetta?

when reporting on the events and persons concerning italy or living in italy - the record is usually very good.

the potential distortions and confusion typically arise from poor translation or a focus lacking context. rhubroma's translations and posting are also typically good.

significant news.

 

[rhubroma]

Link please! I couldn't find it.

Sorry, but I didn't read it on line, as I went out this morning and bought the paper.

 

[rhubroma]

when reporting on the events and persons concerning italy or living in italy - the record is usually very good.

the potential distortions and confusion typically arise from poor translation or a focus lacking context. rhubroma's translations and posting are also typically good.

significant news.

Actually you should have said Rhubroma's translations are impecable.

 

[rhubroma]

LOLZ. I wonder how the clients accounted for the expense. Sounds like tip toeing through a minefield of tax evasion and money laundering.

In fact this is precisely the point the Gazzetta article made: namely, that what started out as a "simple" investigation into the doping affairs of Mr. Armstrong, in which the Feds had no real knowledge about Dr. Ferrari, has become a much, much broader case involving, potentially, the entire financial enterprise underlying organized doping in sport.

The article stated, if my memory serves me correctly, that with the impetus of the American agents, this investigation is going where no other doping investigation has gone before: to the root sources that make the network happen.

As to how reliable the Gazzetta dello Sport is isn't I think questionable in terms of reporting and intentions, though it will be interesting in hindsight to see if what has been reported today leads to major revelations in the future.

In any case in terms of reporting on doping in cycling, it's way better and timelier than any of the anglo-american dailies on this issue I have found.

 

[slowspoke]

In fact this is precisely the point the Gazzetta article made: namely, that what started out as a "simple" investigation into the doping affairs of Mr. Armstrong, in which the Feds had no real knowledge about Dr. Ferrari, has become a much, much broader case involving, potentially, the entire financial enterprise underlying organized doping in sport.

The article stated, if my memory serves me correctly, that with the impetus of the American agents, this investigation is going where no other doping investigation has gone before: to the root sources that make the network happen.

As to how reliable the Gazzetta dello Sport is isn't I think questionable in terms of reporting and intentions, though it will be interesting in hindsight to see if what has been reported today leads to major revelations in the future.

In any case in terms of reporting on doping in cycling, it's way better and timelier than any of the anglo-american dailies on this issue I have found.

This is great if true. I couldn't find it on the online version.
It does however have a ring of believablity about it.

 

[rhubroma]

This is great if true. I couldn't find it on the online version.
It does however have a ring of believablity about it.

Well I doubt they just made it up. Yea the article was only in the hardcopy version.

 

[Dallas_]

More treasure

So I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that the FBI, working in conjunction with the French Interpol, Italian NAS and the Swiss, have traced a full 15 MILLION euro in deposits to a Swiss bank account held by Michele Ferrari.

It has also been determined that many transfers came from across the Atlantic.

The circle seems to be closing in.

Could this be the most significant news in a while?

Python states that rhubroma's posts are reliable.

The Bonds case is finished for the moment. Why no indictments? Because Novitzky is still gathering evidence.

No wonder the Spin Doctor did not want any digging in Europe!

This is way past a little doping. Way back, RR suggested the IRS was involved.

Hang on - A waste of tax payers money was spun repeatedly. In the wash up, I foresee a tidy profit for the IRS et all.

Be patient. This digging could take a while.
.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Anyone else see the linkage?

Texas Wildfires 2011: Season Among Worst In State History

Dave.

Hell, yeah, Lance is burning Texas and you have even proven it with your post from one month ago.
If Lance didn't use so much water in 2008, Texas would be fine now.
Congrats !

 

[thehog]

Could this be the most significant news in a while?

Python states that rhubroma's posts are reliable.

The Bonds case is finished for the moment. Why no indictments? Because Novitzky is still gathering evidence.

No wonder the Spin Doctor did not want any digging in Europe!

This is way past a little doping. Way back, RR suggested the IRS was involved.

Hang on - A waste of tax payers money was spun repeatedly. In the wash up, I foresee a tidy profit for the IRS et all.

Be patient. This digging could take a while.
.

I detailed this very information a few days ago in the "Tsunami" thread.

I should add that the SWISS connection is not just payments. Its the UCI.