Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Anti-doping]

so the lab scientist was on a routine visit to get blood and outlined how a + would come about. Hardly evidence of a cover up. If this is what Jeff is spending 50 million dollars on, he's wasting time. 2 material witness for the defence from 1999-2001 USPS said they saw no doping...but that didn't get reported either-only the two who did. 12 of 23 jurors have to vote true bill within 6 months. Who's beating on it not?

Why do you defend a doper?
The only thing you are right about..it's no point of using this story..

 

[frenchfry]

so the lab scientist was on a routine visit to get blood and outlined how a + would come about. Hardly evidence of a cover up. If this is what Jeff is spending 50 million dollars on, he's wasting time. 2 material witness for the defence from 1999-2001 USPS said they saw no doping...but that didn't get reported either-only the two who did. 12 of 23 jurors have to vote true bill within 6 months. Who's beating on it not?

I had heard that Jeff had already spent 100 million, and isn't finished yet. Witch hunt, witch hunt!

 

[Cloxxki]

so the lab scientist was on a routine visit to get blood and outlined how a + would come about. Hardly evidence of a cover up. If this is what Jeff is spending 50 million dollars on, he's wasting time. 2 material witness for the defence from 1999-2001 USPS said they saw no doping...but that didn't get reported either-only the two who did. 12 of 23 jurors have to vote true bill within 6 months. Who's beating on it not?

Congrats, you just made your first $5 in your PR career. You can cash it by visiting the External Interns desk at our offices.

We appreciate your efforts, and support your future in PR.

Regards,

Public Strategies
Austin, Texas

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I juat read on velonews the results were suspect but not linked to Armstrong. I also read they met during a routine visit to take blood. This is a non story. move on. And it's not good for Novitsky. Nothing can be found here. Every rider who says they saw no doping is equally as deserving of respect as those who say he did dope. You people are so lacking in critical thinking skills with your foaming at the mouth bash Armstrong rhetoric you haven't even managed to ponder that Hincapie's non denial of admission is a deliberate strategy by Hincapie and LA. I beleive let sleeping dogs lie..you don't buddy!

Yes of course - its obvious that 2 guys who have already lost all their money and respect through lying and cheasting would definitely decide out of nothing to lie to Federal Investigators, a Grand jury and the media, because they'd definitely have nothing to lose by doing that. It's not like perjury is a big deal or anything is it? No reason not to fabricate stories just out of jealousy and bitterness, or to score a book deal, right? I mean it's not like Tyler just got his life back together a little, and doesn't want to be redefined as the guy who first lied about not doping, then went to the feds and lied about really doping just to smear Lance out of jealousy and bitterness, knowing full well he could risk perjury charges and lawsuits if it was proven that he was falsifying his allegations. I mean he only stands to gain from doing this, right? Not risky at all!

But Lance and a few others would definitely have absolutely no reason to lie! They must be the ones telling the truth, surely?

And any ex postie who says in the media that they didn't see any doping, or has nothing to say on the matter must have also definitely said the same thing to the Grand Jury. I mean, they'd have no reason to tell one thing with a perjury charge threat hanging over them, and another thing in the media when its their old friends and employers they are dropping from a great height....some of whom are still highly influential in the world where they continue to make a living.

does the phrase "critical thinking" mean anything to you?

 

[veganrob]

I juat read on velonews the results were suspect but not linked to Armstrong. I also read they met during a routine visit to take blood. This is a non story. move on. And it's not good for Novitsky. Nothing can be found here. Every rider who says they saw no doping is equally as deserving of respect as those who say he did dope. You people are so lacking in critical thinking skills with your foaming at the mouth bash Armstrong rhetoric you haven't even managed to ponder that Hincapie's non denial of admission is a deliberate strategy by Hincapie and LA. I beleive let sleeping dogs lie..you don't buddy!

Good Grief. And then the smiley face. Sheesh

 

[tubularglue]

Originally Posted by Exroadman24902
I juat read on velonews the results were suspect but not linked to Armstrong. I also read they met during a routine visit to take blood.

a routine visit to take blood.' -

now that could be believable

 

[Exroadman24902]

chill guys. I just think we should look to the future, not to past dopers. I support justice, but not two tier justice like you propose

 

[Race Radio]

chill guys. I just think we should look to the future, not to past dopers. I support justice, but not two tier justice like you propose

How large do Armstrong's crimes have to be for you to be OK with investigating them? Does he get a pass for all criminal activity or just the doping stuff?

This case moved far beyond doping months ago.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

chill guys. I just think we should look to the future, not to past dopers. I support justice, but not two tier justice like you propose

Every criminal thinks you should "look to the future," since the crimes happen to be in the past.

 

[Andynonomous]

Statute of limitations should be 15 minutes ago.

Yes, lets change the statute of limitations to 15 minutes before now.



I am not here to talk about the past.

It's such a waste of taxpayers money.

So what, he did so much good for so many people.

They all do it, so it balances out.

His accusers are all liars, out to sell a book.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Hurry, let's change the subject, because I want to protect my hero.

bla, bla, bla.....

 

[ChrisE]

That´s it. Even mentioned by Landis. No test for this. And Armstrong got faster every year...

That's your opinion. I will not ask you to provide a link because you won't, even after I changed my avatar as quid pro quo.

My opinion is that his most dominant win ie he was at his best was in 2001. Not a coincidence IMO.

 

[VeloGirl]

I find it interesting that just a few short years ago, the LA/Postal/Discovery fan base was up in arms at any rider who was found to be doping. "Ban them"! "We want a clean sport"! "Get the cheaters out"! "Dopers ruin our sport"!

But now...now that they seem to realize that it is more than probable that LA and some of their favorite riders on Postal/Discovery did dope - now they are saying "Let's move on"!, "This is a waste of time"! "Let's just focus on racing"!

You can't have it both ways. It's not okay that LA and the rest of them were doping.

You can't excuse LA (and any other Postal/Discovery rider) from the same deed you vilify Landis, Hamilton and Basso for (I remember how the LA fans LOVED Basso when he came to Discovery. Oh...LAs friend. LA helped him when his mom was going through chemo. Then said things like "Out with the trash" when Basso confessed).

 

[Cobblestoned]

That's your opinion. I will not ask you to provide a link because you won't, even after I changed my avatar as quid pro quo.

My opinion is that his most dominant win ie he was at his best was in 2001. Not a coincidence IMO.

This guy has nothing else than his pathetic opinions, hasn't he.

Be soft to him, Chrissie. He is a hardcore believer of the church of Ullistst, prime hater for 12 years, without any respect for Lance. Not even a trace of respect.
Only bavarian-rider is harder Ullist around here. lol
Dude, but I guess 2004 was strongest performance, next to 1999 ?
5 years between that. Says everything.
Lance forever.
Greatest performance was to be so competitive and dominant for 7 in a row.
Wow, 7 !!! No coincidence.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7

 

[Cimacoppi49]

chill guys. I just think we should look to the future, not to past dopers. I support justice, but not two tier justice like you propose

It's not about the Dope. It's about criminal activity on at least two continents.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

I had heard that Jeff had already spent 100 million, and isn't finished yet. Witch hunt, witch hunt!

It isn't just little (6'8") old Jeff spending investigative money. It's also the FBI, the IRS and probably the Treasury Department (Secret Service which is tasked with electronic crimes investigation) and possibly Homeland Security relative to the money laundering and FCPA aspects of the investigation. Recall that there are forensic accountants working on bank accounts in Switzerland as well.

This is far beyond just Lance putting some PEDs into his body and those of his teammates. It's become an investigation about the entire structure of a criminal enterprise that funded itself from the public trough. The mistake the press continues to make (and that Fabiani and Krew continue to push to the press) is that this is only about doping in some ancient bicycle races in Europe. Not!

It's a criminal miscreant hunt, criminal miscreant hunt, criminal miscreant hunt.

BTW, it's been pointed out elsewhere that if Armstrong were really interested in reducing goverment investigative costs, he'd confess and aid the investigation going after former fellow miscreants.

 

[ChrisE]

This guy has nothing else than his pathetic opinions, hasn't he.

Be soft to him, Chrissie. He is a hardcore believer of the church of Ullistst, prime hater for 12 years, without any respect for Lance. Not even a trace of respect.
Only bavarian-rider is harder Ullist around here. lol
Dude, but I guess 2004 was strongest performance, next to 1999 ?
5 years between that. Says everything.
Lance forever.
Greatest performance was to be so competitive and dominant for 7 in a row.
Wow, 7 !!! No coincidence.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7

In 99 he only rode away from the others into Sestriere I believe, and he only won by 30 something seconds. He even lost time on the last mountaintop finish in the Pyrenees if I remember correctly. Of course he was not under pressure after Gois so that probably changed tactics, and there was no strong TT-er like JU that he felt he must put time into. I seem to remember that discounting Gois he only beat Zulle by a minute or something.

2004 he never finished alone. He won alot of stages but he never rode away like he did in 2001. In 2001 he would just stand up and sprint away from the others like they were sitting still. He did that on I think 3 stages, and he dominated the TT's that year. Alot of people claim JU was his strongest that year, but no way IMO. He was much stronger in 96-98, no coincidence before the EPO test.

In 2000 LA was strong at first, but looked very human in the Alps and cracked on Jaux Plane. I personally think his single most dominant performance was Hautacam in 2000, followed by Pla d det and Alpe in 2001....

Interesting fact: in 2001 JU rode the Alpe 2 mins slower than the did in 97 I believe, and JU lost to LA by 2 mins on that climb in 2001. JU finished 2nd that day in 2001, ie best of the rest.

I've written this before and sorry to go off our topic but it leads to my reasoning about 2001, other than my eyes of course....I do not think LA had an advantage over his 7 years by having UCI protection. My opinion is it was peleton wide in the TdF, or there were alot of blind eyes turned. My exception to this is 2001. Perhaps the other riders were in a transition from EPO to other methods, or they were relatively clean while trying to figure out what they could get away with since the EPO test introduction. This was a transition time in testing and perhaps there was confusion about how much of a crackdown there would be. But perhaps LA had protection so he could keep using in 2001....

Remember per FL Ferrari advised LA to stop taking EPO in 2001, then he was caught in the TdS. I digress off topic but if LA had UCI protection all 7 years then why would Ferrari be worred??? If he had protection up to that point why did he advise LA to stop using it because of the new test???

Anyway if payoffs were agreed in 2001, I would assume it was under agreement that he would have that protection in the tour that year. No way LA could change from an EPO based regimen in June to something different in July, and have the bugs worked out to dominate that tour like he did.

I am unsure of the timeframe....when did LA learn of the "suspicious" TdS result?

 

[tubularglue]

I had heard that Jeff had already spent 100 million, and isn't finished yet. Witch hunt, witch hunt!

Can someone post factual links to these dollar ammounts ?


curious as to the validity

 

[Hugh Januss]

Can someone post factual links to these dollar ammounts ?


curious as to the validity

Pretty sure exroadman was blowing smoke and frenchfry was being sarcastic.

 

[Polish]

It isn't just little (6'8") old Jeff spending investigative money. It's also the FBI, the IRS and probably the Treasury Department (Secret Service which is tasked with electronic crimes investigation) and possibly Homeland Security relative to the money laundering and FCPA aspects of the investigation. Recall that there are forensic accountants working on bank accounts in Switzerland as well.

You are right of course.
It is not just the FDA that is wasting precious Taxpayer Money on Lance.
The Treasury & FBI & IRS & Homeland Security & Secret Service are wasting taxpayer monies too.
A good Witch Hunt includes townspeople from all walks of life.
Butcher/Cobbler/Bookkeeper/ETC

This is far beyond just Lance putting some PEDs into his body and those of his teammates. It's become an investigation about the entire structure of a criminal enterprise that funded itself from the public trough. The mistake the press continues to make (and that Fabiani and Krew continue to push to the press) is that this is only about doping in some ancient bicycle races in Europe. Not! It's a criminal miscreant hunt, criminal miscreant hunt, criminal miscreant hunt.

With the impending USA Budget Crunch, it's possible that US Soldiers will not be paid.
But the Witch Hunt will be funded. Nice.

Maybe while the FDA / FBI / HomeLandSecurity are investigating 1999 CycleDoping,
they can pick up on some useful chatter from terrorist bad guys?

BTW, it's been pointed out elsewhere that if Armstrong were really interested in reducing goverment investigative costs, he'd confess and aid the investigation going after former fellow miscreants.

Not sure you understand how a Witch Hunt works....
The Witches are generally NOT allowed to grab a flaming torch to join in the hunt lol.

 

[tubularglue]

if we take into consideration semantics,

would it not be a warlock hunt' ?

 

[sniper]

You are right of course.
It is not just the FDA that is wasting precious Taxpayer Money on Lance.
The Treasury & FBI & IRS & Homeland Security & Secret Service are wasting taxpayer monies too.
A good Witch Hunt includes townspeople from all walks of life.
Butcher/Cobbler/Bookkeeper/ETC



With the impending USA Budget Crunch, it's possible that US Soldiers will not be paid.
But the Witch Hunt will be funded. Nice.

Maybe while the FDA / FBI / HomeLandSecurity are investigating 1999 CycleDoping,
they can pick up on some useful chatter from terrorist bad guys?




Not sure you understand how a Witch Hunt works....
The Witches are generally NOT allowed to grab a flaming torch to join in the hunt lol.

- LA & co. have wasted more tax payers' money than Novitzky will be able to waste in a lifetime.

- what witch? and which hunt?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

You are right of course.
It is not just the FDA that is wasting precious Taxpayer Money on Lance.
The Treasury & FBI & IRS & Homeland Security & Secret Service are wasting taxpayer monies too.
A good Witch Hunt includes townspeople from all walks of life.
Butcher/Cobbler/Bookkeeper/ETC



With the impending USA Budget Crunch, it's possible that US Soldiers will not be paid.
But the Witch Hunt will be funded. Nice.

Maybe while the FDA / FBI / HomeLandSecurity are investigating 1999 CycleDoping,
they can pick up on some useful chatter from terrorist bad guys?




Not sure you understand how a Witch Hunt works....
The Witches are generally NOT allowed to grab a flaming torch to join in the hunt lol.

There is no reasoning with you. One final point before I completely ignore you. Most criminal investigations are money losers. Even more money is spent (lost) on incarceration costs. As a society we consider it important to uphold the rule of law even given those costs. That said, in this case, a RICO indictment with its asset forfeiture provisions has the potential to pay for the investigation and prosecution, or at least, substantially cover the costs.

 

[D-Queued]

You are right of course.
It is not just the FDA that is wasting precious Taxpayer Money on Lance.
The Treasury & FBI & IRS & Homeland Security & Secret Service are wasting taxpayer monies too.
A good Witch Hunt includes townspeople from all walks of life.
Butcher/Cobbler/Bookkeeper/ETC

With the impending USA Budget Crunch, it's possible that US Soldiers will not be paid.
But the Witch Hunt will be funded. Nice.

Maybe while the FDA / FBI / HomeLandSecurity are investigating 1999 CycleDoping,
they can pick up on some useful chatter from terrorist bad guys?

Not sure you understand how a Witch Hunt works....
The Witches are generally NOT allowed to grab a flaming torch to join in the hunt lol.

Here on this fine Saturday morning, I have finally taken the bait and have stooped to respond to the troll. Kind of like picking up after your pet.

Nonetheless, here goes.

I agree with you Polish.

We should be able to write a letter to someone and just tell them that this investigation or that investigation isn't worth pursuing.

If they heard from us real people, with no hidden agendas, they would have to automatically drop it.

They get a letter, then they drop it. Isn't that how democracy is supposed to work?

And, since they are wasting money already, they should pay for the postage! If they even think of not paying for the postage, well that would be a crime of the future, and they should be arrested for it.

Utopia, here we come.

You make such compelling arguments. Your mother must be very proud of you. I am going to agree with whatever you say from now on.

You should just send your letter to this Jeff Novitzky guy.

OR, even better, you should send it to his boss. Isn't there some sort of whistleblower law? You could get rewarded for ratting out this waste of money.

Go for it!!!

One thing, though. Why bother telling this to the people on this forum?

Obviously we are all too stupid to understand your brilliance. And, if we did understand, aren't you worried one of us will send that whisteblower letter instead, and scoop the money that you deserve?

Dave.

P.S. I thought the Cobbler was on your side, why are you singling him out as a participant in a which (sic) hunt?

 

[Topangarider]

[\QUOTE]Not sure you understand how a Witch Hunt works....
The Witches are generally NOT allowed to grab a flaming torch to join in the hunt lol.[/QUOTE]

Remind me in which countries and centuries that accused witches had million dollar legal defenses and public relations machines?

 

[MarkvW]

There is no reasoning with you. One final point before I completely ignore you. Most criminal investigations are money losers. Even more money is spent (lost) on incarceration costs. As a society we consider it important to uphold the rule of law even given those costs. That said, in this case, a RICO indictment with its asset forfeiture provisions has the potential to pay for the investigation and prosecution, or at least, substantially cover the costs.

Also there may be some possibility of a civil fraud lawsuit that would avoid the statute of limitations on a theory that the fraudsters concealed the fraud from discovery for years. Some evidence gained in the criminal investigation might be useful for that purpose.