Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[JPM London]

Sorry, but when and why did this recent "Gunderson" thing start?

I know, I should have been a good boy and read all posts in all threads and then I would've known.

By the way: I'm not stupid and I get it - just wondered if there's a reason it's been doing the rounds recently...

 

[ergmonkey]

Sorry, but when and why did this recent "Gunderson" thing start?

I know, I should have been a good boy and read all posts in all threads and then I would've known.

By the way: I'm not stupid and I get it - just wondered if there's a reason it's been doing the rounds recently...

"Gunderson" is primarily for those who aren't content with the facts that Lance Armstrong is a liar, cheat, fraud, etc. such that the "Gunderson" crowd wishes to spite Lance Armstrong in anything and everything. It's not enough to catch him in a lie, you also need to deny him the right to choose to use a name that is legitimately in his family. It's about forcing Lance Armstrong to be named after the biological father with whom he has no relationship and pretty much despises. In other words, refer to Lance as "Gunderson" if you want people to think you're motivated more by personal contempt than anything else.

 

[Hampsten88]

I realize this is an anti-LA thread at heart, but one thing to keep in mind about O'Reilly is the lie that she was not paid by Walsh. I am not saying she is wrong about this but just pointing out something important in a thread making her sound like a bastion of truth.

 

[D-Queued]

"Gunderson" is primarily for those who aren't content with the facts that Lance Armstrong is a liar, cheat, fraud, etc. such that the "Gunderson" crowd wishes to spite Lance Armstrong in anything and everything. It's not enough to catch him in a lie, you also need to deny him the right to choose to use a name that is legitimately in his family. It's about forcing Lance Armstrong to be named after the biological father with whom he has no relationship and pretty much despises. In other words, refer to Lance as "Gunderson" if you want people to think you're motivated more by personal contempt than anything else.

Interesting.

Or, it is:
1. A nod to concerns that all roads lead to Lance in the Clinic
2. Much better than name distortions (e.g. Prance, Liestrong, Alarmstrong, Calen Storngram) or complete codenames (HWMNBN, etc.)
3. A reflection that the true character of Lance is something of an enigma, and that we might need to go back to his birth to really try and understand how he became what he is, Yes, he may have legally changed his name to Armstrong, but who is he? Was Norma Jean really Marilyn or just Norma Jean with a fancy wrapper?

Dave.

 

[Hampsten88]

Race radio and Granville, it's great she said so in this article, but where was she when "LA Confidential" came out and Walsh was claiming she was not paid?

Despite telling VeloNews in 2004 that he didn't pay for any interviews, Walsh disclosed to Outside magazine that O'Reilly was paid for the interview in September 2003. Although she wasn't initially paid, Walsh said she later contacted him to complain that the book would be a success due to her interview, but she would get none of the benefits. She was paid $8,850.

Not only was she paid and was part of the denial by not coming clean when Walsh lied, she also was looking to get money when she realized Walsh was going to make money. Great ethics.


I won't comment on the unethical behavior in this thread.

 

[Hampsten88]

Remind me how any of this changes the facts of Armstrong's PED abuse?

Where did I say it did?

Please try to keep up better then certain mods and the obsessives.

 

[Hampsten88]

Damn, you admit that you understand the topic of the thread and still try and go off topic?

It's funny how people get uppity and claim someone is going off topic only when the person brings up a valid point that doesn't suit their agenda.

I am interested in the piece you quoted - yet did not link, as you obviously are someone of high ethics (I am glad there is finally someone else around here) could you please show the link as I got a rather dubious website when I searched, thanks.

Sure the actual quote I used is from a blog, but the actual info the quote is discussing is from the Outside Magazine article...as it clearly states and links. Here is the link to the page of the article
http://outsideonline.com/outside/features/200512/lance-armstrong-1.html?page=6

Keep trying boys.

It's interesting how people like road race, you, pedaling squares, etc. like to claim that anyone not demanding LA's head is a groupie pushing disinformation, yet you guys seem to follow a set plan ever time.

P.S.- Any of you Anonymous Internet Tough Guys care to make a wager whether I am this BPC person or even any previously banned member????

 

[Hampsten88]

Frank, how many forums are you going to spam about your cranks? You got booted from Slowtwitch, how many others?

 

[Hampsten88]

If someone exclaims each and every rider in the Giro will win it, he'll be right at least once...

I have always wanted to put a couple of bucks on every team in a pro league or the top 20 or so guys for a grand tour, just for fun. If a long shot wins, you make major money, if a favorite wins, you lose a bit.

 

[Hampsten88]

You boys should work on your reading comprehension skills...unless you are purposely using misdirection.

Peddaling, you have done much more then that both publicly and privately...none of it appropriate to some who is a moderator.

Night boys, enjoy your highly organized attack on those who don't buy in to every word you say. (Oh, that was fun attacking a whole group!)

 

[pedaling squares]

"Gunderson" is primarily for those who aren't content with the facts that Lance Armstrong is a liar, cheat, fraud, etc. such that the "Gunderson" crowd wishes to spite Lance Armstrong in anything and everything. It's not enough to catch him in a lie, you also need to deny him the right to choose to use a name that is legitimately in his family. It's about forcing Lance Armstrong to be named after the biological father with whom he has no relationship and pretty much despises. In other words, refer to Lance as "Gunderson" if you want people to think you're motivated more by personal contempt than anything else.

And that's what I don't like about using that name. There are so many examples of LA being a total *** that I think people who don't like him or his actions can easily state their point without resorting to cheap shots. I'm not going to moderate its use in any way, I just think the members of this forum are more sophisticated than that and don't need to take shots at a guy based on who his father was.

 

[Hampsten88]

skippy, the point is that when Walsh was denying she got paid she did not refute it until the facts had come out, she was part of the lie. If you are going to discuss someone and try to play them off as a bastion of truth (as some are doing in this thread) then you need to look at all of the facts, not just the ones that suit your argument. It doesn't matter if the person is Armstrong, O'Reilly, Obama, Bush, Medvedev, Mel Gibson, Merckx, Steven Tyler or anyone else. It's interesting how many people who are vehemently against LA are personally attacking me and making false claims (Where did I say that Emma, specifically lied like some are claiming?) simply because I made a point about her not being the bastion of truth they make her out to be, while I said nothing about whether LA doped or not. (Which leads to another issue on these forums, which is that not once have I ever said that LA is/was clean yet I get personally attacked and insulted when I choose to post something that doesn't completely toe the "LA is the worst doper in the history of cycling and a scourge to the world" line.)

My comments about ethics have been specifically targeted and, based on pm's received and posts allowed to stay and ones deleted that arrow hit home with a great deal of accuracy.

I have plenty to add...if you are willing to listen, which, based on the responses I get, a lot of people refuse to do simply because I don't toe the line. It's rateher amusing that the anti-LA brigade tells people to open their eyes, while having theirs firmly closed to anything that does not fit their agenda 100%.

I'll be waiting to see the usual rash of insults and attacks that I know will come from the usual suspects.

 

[Digger]

Youtube - Panorama and Scientology as key words. The similarities between it and Livestrong and its followers are startling.

 

[Hampsten88]

You may want to take a moment to ruminate on the distinction between "validity" and "logical relevance." Jimmypop attempted to point you in the same direction earlier but his effort flew straight over your head it seems.

The validity of my point was established in my first post. Jimmypop was merely trying to turn this into something it was not...a typical action on these forums.





It's interesting how all of the anti-LA people talk about how the pro-LA people attack them and send nasty emails and nasty posts, etc. yet as soon as someone presents something that does not toe the anti-LA line 100% they do the exact same things...even if you have never said anything about whther LA doped or did not dope.

 

[Hampsten88]

Every time you post something in this and every other thread, you have to either include Armstrong or some rant against half the forum yet you still feel somehow inclined to continue posting...

Should I pick and choose certain quotes and edit others to back up my feeling that all you ever do is to claim other people are posting off topic and to attack them?

You see I can do it as well as you can.

 

[Hampsten88]

Off the top of my head at least these cycling ones,

CyclingForums - absolute gold for a good laugh between Frank and Noel argueing (179 pages!!!)
Cyclingnews
Weight Weenies
Slowtwitch
Cyclebanter

One of the best had to be one I found on a marathon (runners) forum where Frank was claiming his PC's would improve marathon runners speed and decrease injuries lol

His battles with Coggan on Slowtwitch were the best. It was a shame that Dan booted them.

 

[Hampsten88]

You started in this thread to moan about the behaviour of other psoters so you brought this upon yourself. A rant that was completely off-topic, as has been almost all your posts in this topic

Get back on-topic everyone. lets not have this topic dwell that far off-topic as well

I love it, you keep going off topic and then tell others to get back on topic.


Go back and look at who starts going off topic. I will give you a hint, it is not me...though I am sure you will call me a liar.

 

[Hampsten88]

Interesting Pinotti Interview

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...terview-with-italian-cyclings-voice-of-reason

Some very interesting takes on Armstrong, DiLucca, Saunier Duval,etc.

 

[Andynonomous]

Garnering sympathy

Lance is on a full court press to garner sympathy from the public.

Today he was mentioned on ABC, by George W. Bush with respect to a charity ride for wounded soldiers.


http://nation.foxnews.com/george-w-bush/2011/04/28/bush-zings-abc-just-because-you-re-reporting-it-doesn-t-make-it-true


He must be up to something. Is he trying to get the public to pressure Novizky to back off ?

 

[D-Queued]

Lance is on a full court press to garner sympathy from the public.

Today he was mentioned on ABC, by George W. Bush with respect to a charity ride for wounded soldiers.


http://nation.foxnews.com/george-w-bush/2011/04/28/bush-zings-abc-just-because-you-re-reporting-it-doesn-t-make-it-true


He must be up to something. Is he trying to get the public to pressure Novizky to back off ?

Or trying to get the sentence reduced to community service time already served?

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

Youtube - Panorama and Scientology as key words. The similarities between it and Livestrong and its followers are startling.

Not really.

But, some prominent followers/supporters are also into Scientology.

Dave.

 

[Digger]

Not really.

But, some prominent followers/supporters are also into Scientology.

Dave.

The cult and its attacking of people who criticise - see RR thread. Their blind devotion and refusal to see anything else. That's similar.

 

[MarkvW]

And that's what I don't like about using that name. There are so many examples of LA being a total *** that I think people who don't like him or his actions can easily state their point without resorting to cheap shots. I'm not going to moderate its use in any way, I just think the members of this forum are more sophisticated than that and don't need to take shots at a guy based on who his father was.

Lance Armstrong is a great champion. Any time there is a great champion, some lesser men seek to diminish him. Cycling, during the Armstrong years, was an incredibly filthy, doped up sport. Armstrong dominated. His performance was great. He was a champion. He beat the best doped bike racers in the world. Even with dope, that is a great (albeit corrupt and dishonest) feat.

The attacks on Armstrong's character, his finances, and his activities off the bike are so distracting and stupid. We might as well be discussing why Ty Cobb (US early baseball) was such a big bunghole. Such smegma has nothing to do with bike racing.

I'm as grossed out by the obsessive Lance lovers as I am by the obsessive haters. Fortunately, the gundersons are a (vocal) minority on the Clinic.

 

[D-Queued]

The cult and its attacking of people who criticise - see RR thread. Their blind devotion and refusal to see anything else. No not similar at all.

Victims of habit? Or, just bullies doing what they do best?

Where Armstrong claims to be a miracle he has stopped short of suggesting he has alien DNA.

Moreover, 'It's not about the bike' really pales in comparison to Dianetics and you don't need to pass the E Meter test and become a 'clear' to wear a yellow bracelet.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

Now folks are getting it. When they follow the money it goes past Armstrong.

The other area the Feds are probing and I've mentioned it before is Catlin. They are looking at the fraud angle that he was setting up the anti-doping program whilst prior consultation and payment had been made to Ferrari. The key being"pre-meditated" fraud. ie there won't be any claims but not knowing what was being injected. It was a well thought out and prepared plan to defraud the public, sponsors, governments etc. - expect a lot more "I don't recall".