Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Hampsten88]

It's off-topic for this thread. If he wants to discuss that make a new thread, or let him take it to the about the forum subsection. Same goes for you

Actually my initial point was completely on topic, the subsequent attacks and false claims were not.

 

[Hampsten88]

I’ll try to help get it back on topic and discuss the point of your comment. However I’m having a hard time filling in some of the blanks by the way you have it worded.

H88 are you saying that Emma lied and said she was not paid by Walsh? (You said “the lie” not who lied.) Or are you saying Walsh lied when he said he didn’t pay her. Is the bolded "this" refering to the "lie" or her story about LA.

Maybe if you can clearly establish that point, then we can move on to the second point about her credibility.

If she lied, I would say yes it hurts her credibility, if Walsh lied I would say it doesn’t hurt it as much, but still makes it a little messier.

I just need a few more details as the way your comment is worded leaves it open to interpretation.

Thanks

How hard is to understand when I never said Emma lied, I even made it clear in my second post when I said "...and was part of the denial by not coming clean when Walsh lied...?" It's amazing that you can't figure this out and that others are claiming that I said she lied.

This refers to her comments about LA. As I have said already in this thread, I am not commenting on whether LA doped or not, simply adding a valid point to those making her out to be a bastion of truth.

 

[Hampsten88]

Your original post, yes. This statement however was not:

Interesting how you select one comment at the end of a completely on topic post and then try to use it to say I "started in this thread to moan about the behaviour of other psoters so you brought this upon yourself."

Let's examine this:

1) You did a great job of editing out the rest of that post you quoted, which was totally on topic.

2) Before my second post in the topic the following posts were made that were either edited by one particular admin (not you) or contain off topic material equal to or more then what you have quoted:

#21
#22
#26

So, the facts show that others were the ones moaning about others and not me.

3) It's interesting how, in the Emma thread, you posted an off topic post that was meant as a personal attack on me and then followed with a general warning. In other words you made sure to get in a last shot knowing, that if I respond you can punish me and claim I was warned.

4) Do you want to dig that hole deeper?

 

[Hampsten88]

P.S. It's interesting how you move my posts, delete my posts and go after me while people are making posts in that thread that do nothing but attack another poster.
What excuse do you have for that?!?!?!

 

[Hampsten88]

My apologies, I was up too early working this morning.

Can I ask you straight up ("yes or no" to keep it simple for me today), do you think Emma was lying to David Walsh?

Honestly I am unsure if she is lying. Every time I go over the information I see a number of items that make me think she is (including info from some pro cyclists I have the great fortune of knowing) and some of it makes me think she isn't. I go back and forth, but I don't know for sure since I am not one of the few people who truly know the facts but I think the odds are that LA doped. I also think that many of the stories, both saying he is clean and that he is dirty are complete BS.

 

[skippythepinhead]

And that's what I don't like about using that name. There are so many examples of LA being a total *** that I think people who don't like him or his actions can easily state their point without resorting to cheap shots. I'm not going to moderate its use in any way, I just think the members of this forum are more sophisticated than that and don't need to take shots at a guy based on who his father was.

I don't believe that using Lance's birth name is intended as taking a shot at the guy based on who his father was. I believe it's more symbolic of a desire to understand how the myth was built and what kind of foundation it was built upon and does not in fact refer to the circumstances of LA's early years. I believe the reference to his earlier name is an attempt to show that "Lance Armstrong" has become an un-real figure about whom it is difficult to have a conversation. But I'm happy to drop the birth name reference if you really think it's a shot at Lance based on who his father was.

Oh, and thanks MarkvW, I hadn't seen today's "talking points" email in my inbox yet.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

Lance Armstrong is a great champion. Any time there is a great champion, some lesser men seek to diminish him. Cycling, during the Armstrong years, was an incredibly filthy, doped up sport. Armstrong dominated. His performance was great. He was a champion. He beat the best doped bike racers in the world. Even with dope, that is a great (albeit corrupt and dishonest) feat.

The attacks on Armstrong's character, his finances, and his activities off the bike are so distracting and stupid. We might as well be discussing why Ty Cobb (US early baseball) was such a big bunghole. Such smegma has nothing to do with bike racing.

I'm as grossed out by the obsessive Lance lovers as I am by the obsessive haters. Fortunately, the gundersons are a (vocal) minority on the Clinic.

Great champions don't cheat. As far as your insinuation of a level playing field you are wrong.

Really, they all played by the same rules?

Did they all get advanced notice of surprise tests?
Did they all get multiple Testosterone positives ignored
Did they all get to submit back dated TUEs?
Did they all have access to experimental drugs like Hemassit?
Did they all have a manager who was also on the board of the IOC?
Did they all get positives test for EPO ignored?
Did they all do business deals and investments with Verbruggen?
Did they all have access to Ferrari>
Did they all have $800,000 a year to spend on a doping program?

I could go on but you get the idea. the playing field was never level and never will be level

 

[D-Queued]

The other area the Feds are probing and I've mentioned it before is Catlin. They are looking at the fraud angle that he was setting up the anti-doping program whilst prior consultation and payment had been made to Ferrari. The key being"pre-meditated" fraud. ie there won't be any claims but not knowing what was being injected. It was a well thought out and prepared plan to defraud the public, sponsors, governments etc. - expect a lot more "I don't recall".

That Caitlin was being used as a ruse seems the most logical explanation of that entire exercise.

Once you have a tangled web of deceit, adding another strand becomes easy.

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

... (really good points)...

I could go on but you get the idea. the playing field was never level and never will be level

And 'Armstrong' appears ever more a 'stage name' that is part and parcel of a large, orchestrated deception.

Dave.

 

[MacRoadie]

And 'Armstrong' appears ever more a 'stage name' that is part and parcel of a large, orchestrated deception.

Dave.

I distinctly remember a television interview wherein he was asked about his proud Scottish surname and thinking to myself "Gunderson isn't Scottish"...

 

[D-Queued]

I distinctly remember a television interview wherein he was asked about his proud Scottish surname and thinking to myself "Gunderson isn't Scottish"...

A bit of Fakejockitis mcsporranarsehole?

Dave.

 

[MD FACG FACP]

* #1212 * *
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD,FACG,FACP
... (really good points)...

I could go on but you get the idea. the playing field was never level and never will be level
And 'Armstrong' appears ever more a 'stage name' that is part and parcel of a large, orchestrated deception.

Dave.
__________________

Lance says he will cooperate with Landis Investigation

"I've done too many good things for too many people"



Giving credit where credit is due, the credit goes to stormy from the VN forum. There are two guys on that forum I agree with Stormy and Berzin.

Stormy reminds me of RR.....hmmmm

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Emma O'Reilly speaks up.
http://bicycling.com/blogs/theselection/2011/04/27/emma-o’reilly-responds-to-strickland’s-“endgame”/

 

[sniper]

Emma O'Reilly speaks up.
http://bicycling.com/blogs/theselection/2011/04/27/emma-o’reilly-responds-to-strickland’s-“endgame”/

you must be joking right?

 

[webvan]

Wow that was poignant.

f my word is so worthless, Mr. Strickland, why did Lance feel the need to terrorize me for more than two years?

Unfortunately, it’s hard to effectively bully someone who is telling the truth.

but oddly enough

To finish up, I would like you to know that what Lance has done for cancer sufferers has been phenomenal

Does she know something that we don't?

 

[Digger]

Emma O'Reilly speaks up.
http://bicycling.com/blogs/theselection/2011/04/27/emma-o’reilly-responds-to-strickland’s-“endgame”/

Sorry but do you realise there's a full thread about this?

 

[Mambo95]

I distinctly remember a television interview wherein he was asked about his proud Scottish surname and thinking to myself "Gunderson isn't Scottish"...

The more strange thing about this is Armstrong isn't really a Scottish name. It's more a name from just the other side of Hadrian's Wall, especially Cumbria and Northumberland.


(There are websites where they tell you this stuff - my name is from Cornwall or East Anglia. I descend from the latter)

 

[D-Queued]

The more strange thing about this is Armstrong isn't really a Scottish name. It's more a name from just the other side of Hadrian's Wall, especially Cumbria and Northumberland.


(There are websites where they tell you this stuff - my name is from Cornwall or East Anglia. I descend from the latter)

I thought Mambo was more of a latin theme.

Dave.

 

[MacRoadie]

The more strange thing about this is Armstrong isn't really a Scottish name. It's more a name from just the other side of Hadrian's Wall, especially Cumbria and Northumberland.


(There are websites where they tell you this stuff - my name is from Cornwall or East Anglia. I descend from the latter)

Very true. You can probably get a hint from my screen name as to which side of the wall my kin hail from.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

This is all getting painfully pointless.

I understand the thread title is "Another Interesting Piece I Found...". But really? Let's open this debate up to the gaeneology nerds?

Ya know what? I'm not Scottish, but I've had some rotten saddle sores.

Allow me to expound upon them...

 

[Benotti69]

Not really.

But, some prominent followers/supporters are also into Scientology.

Dave.

i would not be surprised if they are trying to get him to sign up. He is right up their street. Doesn't believe in 'dog', hangs out with hollywood celebs and most importantly is rich. I also wouldn't be surprised if he joins as a last minute effort to save his a$$. The cult of scientology is absolute relentless. the followers are complete androids.

 

[thehog]

This is all getting painfully pointless.

I understand the thread title is "Another Interesting Piece I Found...". But really? Let's open this debate up to the gaeneology nerds?

Ya know what? I'm not Scottish, but I've had some rotten saddle sores.

Allow me to expound upon them...

How good to Pippa Middleton look yesterday?

 

[Astana1]

i would not be surprised if they are trying to get him to sign up. He is right up their street. Doesn't believe in 'dog', hangs out with hollywood celebs and most importantly is rich. I also wouldn't be surprised if he joins as a last minute effort to save his a$$. The cult of scientology is absolute relentless. the followers are complete androids.

Armstrong supporters deny the moon landing, existence of gravity and also believe in genies.

At this point there is no point in having a rational discussion. It's like trying to convince someone in Jim Jones' cult to not drink the kool aid.

I think even Armstrong must wonder sometimes what the hell these people are thinking.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Armstrong supporters deny the moon landing, existence of gravity and also believe in genies.

At this point there is no point in having a rational discussion. It's like trying to convince someone in Jim Jones' cult to not drink the kool aid.

Indeed, as you just made it quite plain you won't engage in a to the point and rational argument yourself, and make up **** for a general accusation, and put it in their shoes. YOU are showing why there are -sometimes- 2 fighting, and 2 guilty.

Since the world is a pretty subjective place, there are plenty of legit reasons why you can still like Lance, or even admire him, or aspects of what he did or stands for, or whatever.

 

[Astana1]

Indeed, as you just made it quite plain you won't engage in a to the point and rational argument yourself, and make up **** for a general accusation, and put it in their shoes. YOU are showing why there are -sometimes- 2 fighting, and 2 guilty.

Since the world is a pretty subjective place, there are plenty of legit reasons why you can still like Lance, or even admire him, or aspects of what he did or stands for, or whatever.

Perhaps the place to admire him is on a board for cancer survivors. Surviving cancer is an achievement and seperate to racing a bike and doping.

The time for rational discussion over whether or not he was cheating is over, if people can't see the forest for the trees at this point then they are choosing to keep their eyes closed.

That's why I compare them to the flat earthers. You can't have a reasonable discussion.