Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Anonymous]

LA never got sanctioned AAF, and he has alot to lose by admitting.

TH and FL didn't have those "problems" at the time they admitted, but coincidentally until they hit rock bottom or were forced to talk by a GJ they weren't forthcoming with the truth either. It's all pretty simple human nature Dave.

Well yea, there is that...and the fact that he is a narcissistic pathological liar...

 

[Polish]

Well yea, there is that...and the fact that he is a narcissistic pathological liar...

Narcissistic pathological liar's are a dime a dozen unfortunately.
But it is always good to get help.
As usual, the LiveStrong Site has some helpful advice

http://www.livestrong.com/article/13256-identify-symptoms-pathological-liar/
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[Berzin]

You know what, Polish?

Since you've taken it upon yourself to inundate this site with your fanboy drivel (I hope it pays well, because I can't think of doing something so pathetic regardless of the money) maybe it's time you realize that Lance Armstrong is no longer relevant.

He is an anachronism, and no one cares about his PED-induced awesomeness anymore.

Have you been watching the Tour? New heroes are emerging. And everyone knows that there are better cancer charities to donate to than Livestrong.

Armstrong is a joke, nothing but a punchline. Just like you. Except you're not funny, just sad.

 

[MacRoadie]

You know what, Polish?

Since you've taken it upon yourself to inundate this site with your fanboy drivel (I hope it pays well, because I can't think of doing something so pathetic regardless of the money) maybe it's time you realize that Lance Armstrong is no longer relevant.

He is an anachronism, and no one cares about his PED-induced awesomeness.

Have you been watching the Tour? New heroes are emerging. And everyone knows that there are better cancer charities to donate to than Livestrong.

He is a joke, nothing but a punchline. Just like you. Except you're not funny, just sad.

Even Phil and Paul are down to maybe one LA reference per telecast now, and sometimes it's even relevant (sometimes).

Of course Bobke is still full tard ahead on the Lance bromance, but we'll accept baby steps with Phil and paul for now...

 

[bigloco]

sometimes i scratch my head at Polish and some times his posts are amusing.

His post with the link to Livestrong's pathological liar topic is borderline brilliant and definitely got me to

 

[Polish]

Even Phil and Paul are down to maybe one LA reference per telecast now, and sometimes it's even relevant (sometimes).

They mentioned Eddy once, Jacques once, and Lance once.
Seems about right.
Would have been nice if they worked in Fausto too, but oh well, there is always tommorrow's stage!

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

What time does Polish punch out on the clock because that is the only time when this thread is worth reading?

 

[MacRoadie]

They mentioned Eddy once, Jacques once, and Lance once.
Seems about right.
Would have been nice if they worked in Fausto too, but oh well, there is always tommorrow's stage!

Merckx was actually there. Wasn't Lance supposed to be there too? Where is Lance?

 

[MarkvW]

I don't see any need for personal attacks on Polish. She doesn't dispute that Lance was a doper; it's just that she loves him anyway.

That position is not unreasonable, given the dope-saturated, no EPO test, Festina environment that existed during much of Lance's dominance. I don't agree with it, but it's not unreasonable.

You could fairly argue that, when it comes to cycling, any fan of the pro peloton is just like Polish--they know that the sport is corrupt and doped, but they like it anyway. Same argument could be made for Lance.

Watching the foaming hate displayed by Berzin contrasted with the flaming love displayed by Polish is fun. Why ruin it with personal attacks?

 

[Polish]

Merckx was actually there. Wasn't Lance supposed to be there too? Where is Lance?

Maybe they are saving Lance for the podium presentation in Paris?
He could give his "Believe Speech" again.
That would be soooo cool.
The crowd would go absolutely wild!
Especially if Tommy V makes the podium.

I am still hoping Greg and Bernard will be on the podium tommorrow.
25 year Anniversary of the hand hold finish.

 

[skippythepinhead]

I don't see any need for personal attacks on Polish. She doesn't dispute that Lance was a doper; it's just that she loves him anyway.

That position is not unreasonable, given the dope-saturated, no EPO test, Festina environment that existed during much of Lance's dominance. I don't agree with it, but it's not unreasonable.

You could fairly argue that, when it comes to cycling, any fan of the pro peloton is just like Polish--they know that the sport is corrupt and doped, but they like it anyway. Same argument could be made for Lance.

Watching the foaming hate displayed by Berzin contrasted with the flaming love displayed by Polish is fun. Why ruin it with personal attacks?

Yeah, Berzin hates dopers, unless it's Alberto Contador.  It's interesting to note one of the main Fanboy claims is that Lance would have won on a level non-doped playing field. VO2 max of a colossus and all that. I remain a skeptic on that one.

 

[bigloco]

Maybe they are saving Lance for the podium presentation in Paris?
He could give his "Believe Speech" again.
That would be soooo cool.
The crowd would go absolutely wild!
Especially if Tommy V makes the podium.

I am still hoping Greg and Bernard will be on the podium tommorrow.
25 year Anniversary of the hand hold finish.

Maybe Greg, Bernard and Lance could all ride in the same car and follow the stage!

Think of it as "going green" saving the environment and all that...>insert livestrong "living green" link<

thinking on it, those three in the same car following the race with a rift between the schleck brothers, attacking each other on the Alpe may be the best possible outcome of tomorrow's stage!

 

[Velodude]

It's at the bottom of the ledger after "entertainment" (hookers/blow), travel (gulfstream jet fuel to paid engagements), donations (some funky machine the UCI never bought for between 0$-$500,000), donations to medical research (unmarketable, non-FDA approved blood boosters from many "research" sources), research (donations to whatever doctors to the "awareness campaign"), $20 for free yellow bracelets to the last 20 fans who care.

You should be aware that Livestrong have used a surrogate to attempt to deny the reimbursement by Livestrong of LA’s executive jet costs for travel.

Back in March/April 2011 Race Radio put probing questionsto the Lance Armstrong Foundation (Livestrong) concerning its policies, performance and expenditures.

Despite its claim Livestrong failed to address those questions. However, an avid supporter named Jamie Lindsay stepped into the breachand responded “unofficially” on behalf of LAF with intimate knowledge not available to a supporter.

Mr Lindsay had previously objected to Sports Illustrated’s allegationson LA re Customs searches of private jet passengers. He claimed in that earlier article “I should also state, I am not a fan of Armstrong the bike rider.”

In response to the Race Radio query on the comparatively excessive travelling expenses and whether they included costs of private plane travel Lindsay stated:

FACT: The only person who did not have his travel to the LIVESTRONG Global Summit paid for by LIVESTRONG was Lance Armstrong.
FACT: It is the policy and practice the Foundation NEVER pays for any business/personal jet travel for Armstrong. NEVER!
FACT: Armstrong often offers open seats on his plane for LIVESTRONG Staff travel at NO COST! Obviously this results in savings to the Foundation.

LA is being extremely benevolent to personally absorb these significant expenses. However, if LAF has been reimbursing those costs and covering up, which must be expected, then LAF is at risk of losing its tax exemption status.

 

[Berzin]

Even Phil and Paul are down to maybe one LA reference per telecast now, and sometimes it's even relevant (sometimes).

Yes, I've noticed Phil mention Armstrong only twice-once when the peloton was going around the same bend Beloki crashed out on and how Lance had to cyclocross it back to the road, and the last time Voeckler was in yellow.

Other than that they've been subdued in their revelatory bloviation for Lord Pharmstrong.

Of course Bobke is still full tard ahead on the Lance bromance, but we'll accept baby steps with Phil and Paul for now...

That's because Roll IS Full 'Tard Ahead 24/7/365, including leap year. But we don't have to deal with him while watching the stage itself, because it's only Phil and Paul commentating when the race is on live.

 

[Velodude]

What is Bill Mitchell doing these days? That's a pretty sad state of affairs...one can only hope that karma prevails.

Answer to an unanswered old post concerning the founder of CyclingNews.

http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/bios.cfm?staff_number=1

PS: Relevant because it was Bill Mitchell's picking up of European statements on LA's performances in the 1999 TdF that raised LA supporter ire being ultimately aimed at driving CyclingNews out of business and resulting in Bill Mitchell selling the business.

 

[Anonymous]

Narcissistic pathological liar's are a dime a dozen unfortunately.
But it is always good to get help.
As usual, the LiveStrong Site has some helpful advice

http://www.livestrong.com/article/13256-identify-symptoms-pathological-liar/
.
.
.

That's helpful, but not this helpful: http://www.livestrong.com/article/84980-use-marital-aids/

Now I know what I can use that old Livestrong band for!!!

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

If the police used the same logic as some of the fan-boys on this forum, every time there's a liquor store hold-up, they'd call off the pursuit and/or investigation as soon as it had cost the police department as much as the crooks had got away with.

Criminal prosecution isn't about a P&L sheet, it's about seeing that criminals receive justice.

 

[Berzin]

Yeah, Berzin hates dopers, unless it's Alberto Contador.

Wrong. The type of doping that annoys me the most is doping on the amateur level, which is what I've encountered personally.

The pros doping? I'm ambivalent about it, unless it's Armstrong. Him I cannot stand.

I hope I've made myself clear for the upteenth time.

 

[panache]

Times and power estimates looked considerably human at this year's Tour. Favorites had bad days. Riders looked wasted after stages. Journeyman riders were competitive with the favorites on any given day, even if not sustainable. The Tour looked cleaner.

I believe this investigation is the primary reason for a cleaner race. Without significant consequences, PEDs become an arms race that no one can afford to lose. Puerto didn't do it. Festina didn't do it. Only this "waste of taxpayer money" seems to be working because it is going over the head of the UCI and endangering the livelihood of the cyclists who dope, rather than those who do not.

 

[thehog]

Times and power estimates looked considerably human at this year's Tour. Favorites had bad days. Riders looked wasted after stages. Journeyman riders were competitive with the favorites on any given day, even if not sustainable. The Tour looked cleaner.

I believe this investigation is the primary reason for a cleaner race. Without significant consequences, PEDs become an arms race that no one can afford to lose. Puerto didn't do it. Festina didn't do it. Only this "waste of taxpayer money" seems to be working because it is going over the head of the UCI and endangering the livelihood of the cyclists who dope, rather than those who do not.

Agreed. My god watching unpredictable cycling is exciting. Gone the days of one team rising to the base of the final climb - thank god.

It's only now looking back you begin to realise just how bad those Lance years were. His team just strangled the race to death.

If Phil & Paul weren't on the payroll they would agree.


- btw/ where was Lance at the Tour? Hanging with Levi & Zubeldia?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Just posted this in another thread.

Tweet from @thomas_lequipe:

Sanchez a grimpé l'Alpe d'Huez en 41'45, Rolland en 42'22. Ils sont loin des records de Pantani (37'35) ou d'Armstrong (37'36) #cyclisme

Those are some big differences...

 

[Merckx index]

Times and power estimates looked considerably human at this year's Tour. Favorites had bad days. Riders looked wasted after stages. Journeyman riders were competitive with the favorites on any given day, even if not sustainable. The Tour looked cleaner.

I believe this investigation is the primary reason for a cleaner race. Without significant consequences, PEDs become an arms race that no one can afford to lose. Puerto didn't do it. Festina didn't do it. Only this "waste of taxpayer money" seems to be working because it is going over the head of the UCI and endangering the livelihood of the cyclists who dope, rather than those who do not.

I think you can make a good case, on the basis of climbing times, that the peloton is cleaner (not necessarily clean). I don’t see what relevance that has to the competitiveness of the Tour. If a bunch of riders clean are close to one another in their performance levels, are huge gaps going to open up as a result of doping? Only if some of them have much better programs than others, and Floyd’s/Tyler’s testimony doesn’t particularly support that. Maybe LA, that remains to be seen, but what about, e.g., Basso? In 2006 he was the dominant climber in the world, now he is only one of the better ones. Is this because he had a better program in 2006 than anyone else? A program that allowed him to perform much better than, say, Cunego and Evans? Is the theory that they were always clean, and now that Basso is, too, he is no better than they are?

Maybe, but then what about Floyd? We know he doped, yet even doped he would not have come close to winning the TDF in 2006 if Basso had been there. With Basso, Ulle, and Vino out, the 2006 TDF was actually quite competitive, but we know it wasn't particularly clean.

What about Bert? Anyone really think he would have won the TDF in 2007 if Basso had not been suspended and was riding that Tour? Then how has it happened that he is now, even after the Giro and crashes, out-performing Ivan? Is the theory that Ivan back then had a doping edge over a clean Bert, and now they are both clean? Really?

The point is that a lot of factors go into making the differences in performances between one rider in different years and different riders in the same year. You can’t look at this Tour, the relatively even performances, and make any conclusions about doping. It's quite possible to have a Tour like this with riders doped to the gills, and conversely, it's possible to have a clean race where one rider dominates.

I also disagree with the contention that when riders are doping, they ride like robots, that don’t even get tired. The point of doping is to improve the performance you’re capable of when going all out, not to achieve the same or slightly better performance while taking it a little easier. Someone who has raised his crit and goes all out will feel every bit as exhausted as someone with a natural HT who goes all out.

Power measurements, meaning climbing times, SRM data, and the like, are the best indicators of what the riders are or are not putting into their bodies right now. How exciting/competitive/exhausting the Tour becomes is another question entirely, one I would say is quite unrelated to the cleanliness of the peloton.

 

[Polish]

Just posted this in another thread.

Tweet from @thomas_lequipe:

Sanchez a grimpé l'Alpe d'Huez en 41'45, Rolland en 42'22. Ils sont loin des records de Pantani (37'35) ou d'Armstrong (37'36) #cyclisme

Those are some big differences...

A bit unfair to compare Rolland to Marco or Lance.
Give the kid a break lol.

Marco was one of the GREATEST climbers of all time RIP.
And Lance was doing the Alpe as a TT:

Lance was AWESOME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD89SUkdIk
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[MacRoadie]

A bit unfair to compare Rolland to Marco or Lance.
Give the kid a break lol.
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You're right.

He has a young and promising career. Let's not taint it with comparisions to two of the most unethical dopers in the sport's recent history. Unfair and extremely offensive.

I agree wholeheartedly. Give the kid a break.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think you can make a good case, on the basis of climbing times, that the peloton is cleaner (not necessarily clean). I don’t see what relevance that has to the competitiveness of the Tour. If a bunch of riders clean are close to one another in their performance levels, are huge gaps going to open up as a result of doping? Only if some of them have much better programs than others, and Floyd’s/Tyler’s testimony doesn’t particularly support that. Maybe LA, that remains to be seen, but what about, e.g., Basso? In 2006 he was the dominant climber in the world, now he is only one of the better ones. Is this because he had a better program in 2006 than anyone else? A program that allowed him to perform much better than, say, Cunego and Evans? Is the theory that they were always clean, and now that Basso is, too, he is no better than they are?

Maybe, but then what about Floyd? We know he doped, yet even doped he would not have come close to winning the TDF in 2006 if Basso had been there. With Basso, Ulle, and Vino out, the 2006 TDF was actually quite competitive, but we know it wasn't particularly clean.

What about Bert? Anyone really think he would have won the TDF in 2007 if Basso had not been suspended and was riding that Tour? Then how has it happened that he is now, even after the Giro and crashes, out-performing Ivan? Is the theory that Ivan back then had a doping edge over a clean Bert, and now they are both clean? Really?

The point is that a lot of factors go into making the differences in performances between one rider in different years and different riders in the same year. You can’t look at this Tour, the relatively even performances, and make any conclusions about doping. It's quite possible to have a Tour like this with riders doped to the gills, and conversely, it's possible to have a clean race where one rider dominates.

I also disagree with the contention that when riders are doping, they ride like robots, that don’t even get tired. The point of doping is to improve the performance you’re capable of when going all out, not to achieve the same or slightly better performance while taking it a little easier. Someone who has raised his crit and goes all out will feel every bit as exhausted as someone with a natural HT who goes all out.

Power measurements, meaning climbing times, SRM data, and the like, are the best indicators of what the riders are or are not putting into their bodies right now. How exciting/competitive/exhausting the Tour becomes is another question entirely, one I would say is quite unrelated to the cleanliness of the peloton.

Basso was paying Fuentes €70,000 a year.

More importantly - the data from the stages appear to show much slower times up climbs then previous editions and all of the GC contenders have had days where they were slightly off.

I think its quite evident that this Tour is 'cleaner' - bit not because of the US investigation (as the poster you are quoting suggests) but because the French authorities (AFLD, OCESLP, Police etc) are far quite proactive.