Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Neworld]

Thanks Hog. It's certainly an excellent hypotheses; what if Lance never existed? Where would cycling be today?

I see LA as the perfect storm, where all the right factors either fell into place or were forced/bullied into position:

Fatherless son (maybe due to psychotic Mother)
Full blown internal anger, and need to 'fight' anything and everything
Surrounding pseudoFathers guiding LA in all the wrong directions
Raised in a doping environment with above average but not great talent
Realizing he won't 'win' and needs to dope to compete.
Forms a plan post cancer to not only dope but dope in every and any manner possible to have an edge over all the rest.
Encircled by so many lies, corrupt practices and payoffs that the status he has attained leaves him with no other decision but to live the lie forever.

Sad really. The guy probably just needed a Father and stable family. The real question is how does a guy post cancer dope...further risking his health that was once so tenuous? Also, where is his Father and what does he now say about all this?

If LA wasn't around there would still be dopers, no doubt. But, the extreme psychopathic expansion of his doping and lies into 'Cancer awareness' can never be paralleled. Different cyclists would have won or lost Tours and been caught, but they'd be like David M, Schumacher, Rebellion... we'd have been troubled for a while and then moved on.

LA is a completely different magnitude of dishonesty, hubris and embarrassment for cycling and the Oncological world. Shame on him.

NW

 

[Polish]

BTW, there are bad reviews of the "Juan Pelota Café". Poor service and substandard coffee.

OMG Velodude, that is wonderful.
Something NEW.
Something New, Different Day.
SNDD.

"Poor service and substandard coffee"

Me and the interns are at a loss.
Nothing in the handbook on that one.
We have heard everything thousands of times times times.
But not that one.
We will have to get back to you.

 

[mewmewmew13]

OMG Velodude, that is wonderful.
Something NEW.
Something New, Different Day.
SNDD.

"Poor service and substandard coffee"

Me and the interns are at a loss.
Nothing in the handbook on that one.
We have heard everything thousands of times times times.
But not that one.
We will have to get back to you.

I would love to have a t-shirt with this slogan.

 

[thehog]

I'm currently reading Steve Jobs's biography. Similar story for an unbringing, driven much the same as Armstrong and was struck with cancer. When reading how Jobs dealt with each of these factors compared to Armstrong shows that Armstrong is pure nasty - 100% evil.

Jobs was strong willed but never took short cuts. Jobs was dealt a harsh hand but dealt with it privately & in his own way.

Worth a read in itself but I keep drawing comparisons.

I see LA as the perfect storm, where all the right factors either fell into place or were forced/bullied into position:

Fatherless son (maybe due to psychotic Mother)
Full blown internal anger, and need to 'fight' anything and everything
Surrounding pseudoFathers guiding LA in all the wrong directions
Raised in a doping environment with above average but not great talent
Realizing he won't 'win' and needs to dope to compete.
Forms a plan post cancer to not only dope but dope in every and any manner possible to have an edge over all the rest.
Encircled by so many lies, corrupt practices and payoffs that the status he has attained leaves him with no other decision but to live the lie forever.

Sad really. The guy probably just needed a Father and stable family. The real question is how does a guy post cancer dope...further risking his health that was once so tenuous? Also, where is his Father and what does he now say about all this?

If LA wasn't around there would still be dopers, no doubt. But, the extreme psychopathic expansion of his doping and lies into 'Cancer awareness' can never be paralleled. Different cyclists would have won or lost Tours and been caught, but they'd be like David M, Schumacher, Rebellion... we'd have been troubled for a while and then moved on.

LA is a completely different magnitude of dishonesty, hubris and embarrassment for cycling and the Oncological world. Shame on him.

NW

 

[MacRoadie]

I would say that chance is high that most of the sad highlights in posting history regarding LA were outmoderated in this well moderated place. Wait...perfectly moderated place.

I was going to put you back on ignore, but it looks like this stay will be short-lived...

 

[Cobblestoned]

You have avoided the question as there is no post I have submitted prior to that post, as I forewarned, where I have made reference to that legacy of LA's cancer treatment.

It was comment about and against MarkvW's caustic criticisms against unnamed posters who made reference to his single testicle. I cannot be included in that group.

LA does not consider any reference to his condition is an insult as he is known in the peloton as "powerball", made light of it in an interview with Playboy in 2005, the "Juan Pelota" twitter nick and naming the café in his Mellow Johnnys bike shop in Austin "Juan Pelota Café".

So LA does not consider it self deprecating.

BTW, there are bad reviews of the "Juan Pelota Café". Poor service and substandard coffee. Must only be patronised by fanboys hoping to get a glimpse.

Well, I didn't avoid anything, because there was nothing to avoid. It's about details you know.
No problem to form a minimum standard of respect and keep to it.
That is a nice picture that you paint of yourself, also the world you paint around LA and insulting him or not. Don't disappoint me.
It's not about LA, but keeping a tolerable level of discussion.

About the snipped part - it's very significant.

You gladly shipped around it.
When I turned off my notebook, I just noticed that I wrote watercarrier.lol
Too much cycling. Too late.
Of course its aircraft carrier. But no problem. Everyone should have gotten it.

So, no comment on that insignificant issue ?

 

[Cloxxki]

I see LA as the perfect storm, where all the right factors either fell into place or were forced/bullied into position:

Fatherless son (maybe due to psychotic Mother)
Full blown internal anger, and need to 'fight' anything and everything
Surrounding pseudoFathers guiding LA in all the wrong directions
Raised in a doping environment with above average but not great talent
Realizing he won't 'win' and needs to dope to compete.
Forms a plan post cancer to not only dope but dope in every and any manner possible to have an edge over all the rest.
Encircled by so many lies, corrupt practices and payoffs that the status he has attained leaves him with no other decision but to live the lie forever.

Sad really. The guy probably just needed a Father and stable family. The real question is how does a guy post cancer dope...further risking his health that was once so tenuous? Also, where is his Father and what does he now say about all this?

If LA wasn't around there would still be dopers, no doubt. But, the extreme psychopathic expansion of his doping and lies into 'Cancer awareness' can never be paralleled. Different cyclists would have won or lost Tours and been caught, but they'd be like David M, Schumacher, Rebellion... we'd have been troubled for a while and then moved on.

LA is a completely different magnitude of dishonesty, hubris and embarrassment for cycling and the Oncological world. Shame on him.

NW

Possibly the best sum-up and insight I've seen. Thanks for sharing NW.

 

[sashimono]

Not sure if this is true but I heard that Lance walked into Novitskys office and said "if I am indicted I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

 

[Cal_Joe]

Oh krist he's talking to himself again.....

Well, at least he has a captive audience.

 

[Cal_Joe]

Not sure if this is true but I heard that Lance walked into Novitskys office and said "if I am indicted I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Darth Armstrong?

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

i see la as the perfect storm, where all the right factors either fell into place or were forced/bullied into position:

Fatherless son (maybe due to psychotic mother)
full blown internal anger, and need to 'fight' anything and everything
surrounding pseudofathers guiding la in all the wrong directions
raised in a doping environment with above average but not great talent
realizing he won't 'win' and needs to dope to compete.
Forms a plan post cancer to not only dope but dope in every and any manner possible to have an edge over all the rest.
Encircled by so many lies, corrupt practices and payoffs that the status he has attained leaves him with no other decision but to live the lie forever.

Sad really. The guy probably just needed a father and stable family. The real question is how does a guy post cancer dope...further risking his health that was once so tenuous? Also, where is his father and what does he now say about all this?

If la wasn't around there would still be dopers, no doubt. But, the extreme psychopathic expansion of his doping and lies into 'cancer awareness' can never be paralleled. Different cyclists would have won or lost tours and been caught, but they'd be like david m, schumacher, rebellion... We'd have been troubled for a while and then moved on.

La is a completely different magnitude of dishonesty, hubris and embarrassment for cycling and the oncological world. Shame on him.

Nw

+100000000000000000

 

[Topangarider]

Of course Ferrari does not end up in US courts, not sure why you assumed that. Regardless he is in serious trouble. I expect him to be charged after the US fed files it's charges

Do you really think there will not be an indictment? Really?

How about Bruyneel in U.S. courts?

 

[sniper]

No.

But, I have been waiting a really long time now.

Dave.

If indictments come before the end of the year, that's quick if you ask me.
The investigation really started in the middle of 2010.
Some were awkardly assuming that indictments would come almost immediately after.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

How about Bruyneel in U.S. courts?

I could see Bruyneel being extradited.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Not sure if this is true but I heard that Lance walked into Novitskys office and said "if I am indicted I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

To which Novitsky asked .............................oh, never mind.

 

[Race Radio]

Remember a few years ago when Wonderboy used a crazy amount of water for his house? Promised to fix it, blah blah

Yeah, that was a lie. Used 1.3 million gallons last year


http://www.kutnews.org/post/top-25-water-users-austin?nopop=1

 

[MarkvW]

The "Lance is a bad person" argument doesn't seem too relevant. When I read some of the posts, it appears that the posters are arguing that cold, cruel ruthlessness is a bad thing. So what? Armstrong was a cold, cruel, ruthless jerk. I compare him to Ty Cobb in this regard. Many champions are total jerks.

Pro riders are incredibly vulnerable. Any day an accident or injury can take them out or a sponsorship can evaporate (etc.). But they don't unionize. They're sheep. Herd animals. Easily dominated. And during the Armstrong years, the peloton was dominated by Armstrong. But hey, the herd needs a bellwether. I don't see how the peloton was harmed by Lance--it supported him--and it supported all his sophisticated doped up challengers. If anything, the peloton benefited by the increased attention that Armstrong generated by way of increased sponsorship money translated to increased salaries. The peloton certainly didn't complain. The peloton was complicit.

Armstrong was nurtured by a corrupt system and he flourished in a corrupt system. Every single TdF he participated in was a mockery of any idea of clean sport. He was totally supported by his pelotons (even the clean riders). He was supported by the UCI (see the donation scandal).

Arguing that Armstrong is a cancer on the sport misses the point for me. To me the pro peloton and the UCI are cancers on the sport of bicycle racing and Armstrong is just one of the larger tumors. The idea that "justice" demands that Armstrong lose his TdF results, to me apppears the height of absurdity. So he's no longer the king of a filthy doped up race? Big wow.

Change won't come from the UCI. It won't come from some US investigation. Any meaningful change must be rider-driven. If the riders cared, they could organize and press for doping reform. They don't care. They like doping. They like Omerta. Don't look at what the riders say--look at what they do: Nothing. It's their cesspool and Lance is the toxic growth that sprang from that cesspool.

 

[Velodude]

The "Lance is a bad person" argument doesn't seem too relevant. When I read some of the posts, it appears that the posters are arguing that cold, cruel ruthlessness is a bad thing. So what? Armstrong was a cold, cruel, ruthless jerk. I compare him to Ty Cobb in this regard. Many champions are total jerks.

Pro riders are incredibly vulnerable. Any day an accident or injury can take them out or a sponsorship can evaporate (etc.). But they don't unionize. They're sheep. Herd animals. Easily dominated. And during the Armstrong years, the peloton was dominated by Armstrong. But hey, the herd needs a bellwether. I don't see how the peloton was harmed by Lance--it supported him--and it supported all his sophisticated doped up challengers. If anything, the peloton benefited by the increased attention that Armstrong generated by way of increased sponsorship money translated to increased salaries. The peloton certainly didn't complain. The peloton was complicit.

Armstrong was nurtured by a corrupt system and he flourished in a corrupt system. Every single TdF he participated in was a mockery of any idea of clean sport. He was totally supported by his pelotons (even the clean riders). He was supported by the UCI (see the donation scandal).

Arguing that Armstrong is a cancer on the sport misses the point for me. To me the pro peloton and the UCI are cancers on the sport of bicycle racing and Armstrong is just one of the larger tumors. The idea that "justice" demands that Armstrong lose his TdF results, to me apppears the height of absurdity. So he's no longer the king of a filthy doped up race? Big wow.

Change won't come from the UCI. It won't come from some US investigation. Any meaningful change must be rider-driven. If the riders cared, they could organize and press for doping reform. They don't care. They like doping. They like Omerta. Don't look at what the riders say--look at what they do: Nothing. It's their cesspool and Lance is the toxic growth that sprang from that cesspool.

To succinctly put it in a few words you are inferring "leave Armstrong alone?"

 

[Cal_Joe]

Remember a few years ago when Wonderboy used a crazy amount of water for his house? Promised to fix it, blah blah

Yeah, that was a lie. Used 1.3 million gallons last year


http://www.kutnews.org/post/top-25-water-users-austin?nopop=1

In other words, he reduced his use from that "high" month (330,000 gallons) to an average monthly use of 108,000 gallons - more than 60% reduction.

If you're going to spin things in a weird fashion, at least do the math first.

And WTF does water use have to with anything?

 

[sniper]

In other words, he reduced his use from that "high" month (330,000 gallons) to an average monthly use of 108,000 gallons - more than 60% reduction.

If you're going to spin things in a weird fashion, at least do the math first.

And WTF does water use have to with anything?

well, if you're running a charity, wasting shiploads of money on water seems like an ill investment.

 

[Polish]

Remember a few years ago when Wonderboy used a crazy amount of water for his house? Promised to fix it, blah blah

Yeah, that was a lie. Used 1.3 million gallons last year


http://www.kutnews.org/post/top-25-water-users-austin?nopop=1

Trees and bushes and lawns need water to survive.
Do you hate shrubbery?

And how about Lance as a swimmer?
World Class Skills with very little training.
Natural World Class.

His XTERRA swim time was awesome.
4th out of 400+?

Be cool if the TdF put in a Tri Stage or 2.
Swim the Passage de Grois for example.
Henri Desgrange would approve whole heartedly.

 

[MarkvW]

To succinctly put it in a few words you are inferring "leave Armstrong alone?"

Read into it whatever you want. The more conspiratorial you get, the more I'll like it.

 

[thehog]

UGGGGG.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/...r-patient-wants-according-to-lance-armstrong/

Lance Armstrong has brought attention to cancer through the ubiquitous Livestrong yellow wristbands. But at the same time, his story leaves the “Lance Armstrong effect,” the impression that cancer can be easily defeated and every patient can spring out of bed to achieve great feats much as the seven-time Tour de France winner has.

Dr. David Agus, a cancer expert from University of Southern California, asked Armstrong Wednesday night at TEDMED whether he felt any pressure of being the model of all things going right in cancer treatment.

“It doesn’t go right,” said Armstrong. He responded that every minute, a person in the United States dies from cancer.

And when he meets people living with cancer, the testicular cancer survivor doesn’t dispense advice.

“I don’t say anything,” Armstrong said about when he meets cancer patients. “They don’t expect Vince Lombardi to come in and give tips.”

Here is what every cancer patient wants, according to Armstrong.

“They want to be heard,” he said. “They want me to sit there, look at them in the eye and feel their story.”

 

[Dr. Maserati]

In other words, he reduced his use from that "high" month (330,000 gallons) to an average monthly use of 108,000 gallons - more than 60% reduction.

If you're going to spin things in a weird fashion, at least do the math first.

And WTF does water use have to with anything?

If you are going to spin things in a weird fashion then you should try and compare like with like

From this 2008 article.

But city water records suggested that his home has long been a guzzler of water, using an average of 158,000 gallons a month since January 2007.

So instead of "more than 60%" it is approx 30%.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Trees and bushes and lawns need water to survive.
Do you hate shrubbery?

And how about Lance as a swimmer?
World Class Skills with very little training.
Natural World Class.

His XTERRA swim time was awesome.
4th out of 400+?

Be cool if the TdF put in a Tri Stage or 2.
Swim the Passage de Grois for example.
Henri Desgrange would approve whole heartedly.

Texas has had and is still in an EXTREAM drought for the past year. Wild fires have been a common occurrence in a place that has never had them.

To be using that much water is a waste of a precious resource that needed to be conserved.

His swimming is not that strong. His running is even worse if you can imagine that. All this and he will still just be gifted a spot in the IronMan Kona