Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[Cloxxki]

nail.. head..

wonder which riders used to ride for Bruyneel but at the end of this season moved on to fresh pastures..

What about recent additions to the Bruyneel clan. Regardless of the past they're originally investigating, ask them to report under oath about doping going ons.

BTW, does Trek still have the no-dope clause in their pro contracts?

 

[Altitude]

LMAO - I love how like 6 posts in a row have to be deleted after this thread is opened back up. Seriously you should just do away with the moderating and go the way of youtube. Or you could have an "adults only" subforum where anything goes. Viewer discretion is advised.

 

[Cimacoppi48]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/nyregion/cyclists-race-in-bars-going-nowhere-fast-spokes.html?_r=1

My friend Floyd in New York

Looks like the roller set we used to use with the German Bicycle Sport Club in the 70s.

 

[BotanyBay]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/nyregion/cyclists-race-in-bars-going-nowhere-fast-spokes.html?_r=1

My friend Floyd in New York

Even better:
"Nearby, Mr. Landis, his hair down to his shoulders, smiled widely as he mingled. He retired after admitting to using performance-enhancing substances and accusing his former teammate Lance Armstrong of doping as well; he is now training to become a Nascar driver."

I never thought Landis to be the "mullet" type of guy. But I guess I never knew him either.

 

[Cimacoppi48]

Even better:
"Nearby, Mr. Landis, his hair down to his shoulders, smiled widely as he mingled. He retired after admitting to using performance-enhancing substances and accusing his former teammate Lance Armstrong of doping as well; he is now training to become a Nascar driver."

I never thought Landis to be the "mullet" type of guy. But I guess I never knew him either.

That style could really affect his credibility on the witness stand.

 

[BotanyBay]

Looks like the roller set we used to use with the German Bicycle Sport Club in the 70s.

Fraysee has one of them sitting in his cat-****-soaked basement. That's the room where he sticks his junior prospects on the ergometer before he invites them to live in "Meow-Mix-Manor" (presuming they can crank-out enough watts to warrant the invite).

Kiddos, unless you like the smell of cat-**** in the morning, don't accept that invite ;-)

Merry Xmas

 

[thehog]

Even better:
"Nearby, Mr. Landis, his hair down to his shoulders, smiled widely as he mingled. He retired after admitting to using performance-enhancing substances and accusing his former teammate Lance Armstrong of doping as well; he is now training to become a Nascar driver."

I never thought Landis to be the "mullet" type of guy. But I guess I never knew him either.

He looks very cool.

Really nice guy as well. Top bloke.

 

[Velodude]

I do wonder who the recent witnesses were.
The "40 day" timeline puts it back only as far as early November. That seems like a good window to have access to some of the currently active, but former Postal, riders themselves. Being the off-season, most if not all of those guys are in the U.S and with extra time on their hands.

Of course this a guess. This is only a guess. And this is only an internet forum.

The last news releaseon the investigation was at end of September 2011

There was a new development into the ongoing investigation into the US Postal Service team and multiple Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong yesterday with the news that Italian investigators had apparently uncovered evidence that the rider had made large payments to a Swiss company set up by Italian doctor Michele Ferrari.

The prosecutors may have hauled witnesses before the GJ relating to those Armstrong transactions, particularly if they were intended to be covert, to identify the remitter was LA or associated with him.

 

[Polish]

Oh really? And where is this gear? Pat promised the world he'd produce evidence of the gear. Except... No proof. Ever.

Maybe it's at your house? You'd be helping Pat out if you dropped it off in Agile.

Quick Polish! Drop a non-sequitur! Or just make stuff up.

If you are asking for a receipt, I do not have access to one. But large Multi-National Medical Equipment Manufacturers do not issue receipts anyway. They issue invoices, and those are company private - I do not have that either oh no.

But c'mon, it is NO secret that Lance donated Mucho Moola for test equipment. There are no secrets. Lance told people. UCI told people. Heck, the President of the large Multi-National Medical Equipment Manufacturer issued a nice press release way back when:

July 29, 2005
Information contained in the press release is
current as of the date of the announcement,
but may be subject to change without prior notice.

Sysmex Corporation (HQ: Kobe, Japan]
*Lance Armstrong

Lance Armstrong won an overall victory again in this year's Tour de France, achieving this feat for an unprecedented seventh consecutive time. Mr. Armstrong has won a variety of awards, including the BBC Overseas Sports Personality of the Year in 2003, and is the United States of America's greatest cyclist

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/hincapie-testifies-he-shared-drugs-la-21625-6.html

Interesting to note that Tyler Hamilton was busted at the 2004 Olympics - maybe from the machine that Lance financed. Ooops - sorry bro. No hard feelings I hope?

 

[DirtyWorks]

If you are asking for a receipt, I do not have access to one. But large Multi-National Medical Equipment Manufacturers do not issue receipts anyway. They issue invoices, and those are company private - I do not have that either oh no.

But c'mon, it is NO secret that Lance donated Mucho Moola for test equipment. There are no secrets. Lance told people. UCI told people. Heck, the President of the large Multi-National Medical Equipment Manufacturer issued a nice press release way back when:

Really? Where's the invoice? We were promised, among other things, an invoice by Pat regarding the payments to the UCI. No invoice. I don't need some press release by some guy looking to sell his stuff into a not-yet-official WADA and no invoice. All that accountancy going on in Switzerland and they can't produce a receipt. Excuse me, an "invoice." It's another backdated TUE.

 

[Polish]

The last news releaseon the investigation was at end of September 2011



The prosecutors may have hauled witnesses before the GJ relating to those Armstrong transactions, particularly if they were intended to be covert, to identify the remitter was LA or associated with him.

Nothing new here. Old news.
Lance openly discussed paying Dr Ferrari for services over 10 years ago.
Sure, some people were dissapointed waawaa.
But it was not a secret.
Lance testified years later, but still years ago, during SCA that he paid for Dr Ferrarri services. Nothing illegal paying big bucks for services. World Class Athlete paying a World Class Trainer. Not Illegal. Not a Federal Offense.
Not a secret. No secrets.
No secrets when you're sleeping, no secrets when you're awake.
No secrets if you've been bad or good, so be good for Goodness Sake.
Livestrong, and to all a Good Night

 

[Velodude]

Really? Where's the invoice? We were promised, among other things, an invoice by Pat regarding the payments to the UCI. No invoice. I don't need some press release by some guy looking to sell his stuff into a not-yet-official WADA and no invoice. All that accountancy going on in Switzerland and they can't produce a receipt. Excuse me, an "invoice." It's another backdated TUE.

There is more to it than an invoice. An invoice exists for the Sysmex machine but the dates are relevant. McQuaid showed the invoice to CyclingNews but did not allow a copy to be made.

Pat screwed himself up completely in fabricating a story to cover for the purposes and timing of Armstrong's donations.

1. The Sysmex machine was used during the 2005 TdF (See Polish's reference above to the manufacturer).

2. In defense of Armstrong's donations, McQuaid publicly claimed that a Sysmex machine was needed at the date Armstrong retired (circa July 2005) although, in contradiction, according to the manufacturer a Sysmex machine had been purchased and used during the 2005 TdF.

3. McQuaid claimed Armstrong promised $100,000 (circa July 2005) for the Sysmex machine but UCI had to chase him for a long time for payment. They falsely claimed to have purchased (after July 2005) the Sysmex machine in reliance of Armstrong's pledge for payment

4. McQuaid claimed the UCI regretted receiving donations from Armstrong while he was still a rider (even though the $100,000 "donation" was made months after he retired.)

5. Dr. Maserati, I recall, noted McQuaid had recently in an audio recording had made a statement about the $100,000 donation by Armstrong that calculated the receipt by the UCI about the same time the Vrijman report was issued (April 2006).

Some Quotes:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-reveals-armstrong-made-two-donations-to-the-uci

"Then in 2005, just at the time Armstrong retired, he promised $100,000. At that time we needed a Sysmex machine, so we ordered it and we paid for it based on the pledge he had made. Why it took him so long to eventually pay up I don't know, you'd have to ask him. It came from his company CSE. And the fact that the $100,000 came from CSE explains to me why he said $25,000. He may not have directly known about the later $100,000 donation."

McQuaid showed Cyclingnews a photocopy of the invoice of the Sysmex blood testing machine that a large part of Armstrong $100,000 donation was used to buy. He refused to let us take a photograph of it, keeping it in a file marked 'Confidential'

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstrong-donation-a-mistake

The President of the UCI Pat McQuaid has revealed that Lance Armstrong is the only rider ever to have made a donation to UCI and has admitted that in hindsight, the decision to accept $100,000 while the Texan was still racing was regrettable.

 

[Race Radio]

Why was the "Donation" $125,000 if the machine was only $80,000? Did the rest go to the McQuaid liver transplant fund?

 

[thehog]

There is more to it than an invoice. An invoice exists for the Sysmex machine but the dates are relevant. McQuaid showed the invoice to CyclingNews but did not allow a copy to be made.

Pat screwed himself up completely in fabricating a story to cover for the purposes and timing of Armstrong's donations.

1. The Sysmex machine was used during the 2005 TdF (See Polish's reference above to the manufacturer).

2. In defense of Armstrong's donations, McQuaid publicly claimed that a Sysmex machine was needed at the date Armstrong retired (circa July 2005) although, in contradiction, according to the manufacturer a Sysmex machine had been purchased and used during the 2005 TdF.

3. McQuaid claimed Armstrong promised $100,000 (circa July 2005) for the Sysmex machine but UCI had to chase him for a long time for payment. They falsely claimed to have purchased (after July 2005) the Sysmex machine in reliance of Armstrong's pledge for payment

4. McQuaid claimed the UCI regretted receiving donations from Armstrong while he was still a rider (even though the $100,000 "donation" was made months after he retired.)

5. Dr. Maserati, I recall, noted McQuaid had recently in an audio recording had made a statement about the $100,000 donation by Armstrong that calculated the receipt by the UCI about the same time the Vrijman report was issued (April 2006).

Some Quotes:

The absurdity of it all was Armstrong was doping his head off. Why oh why was he donating doping machines & writing letters to the UCI to go harder after the Spanish cyclists? It's all very weird.

Of course at the time Vedruggin knew he was doping so why even pretend in regards to the Sysmex machine?

I actually know the answer to this....

On one hand Armstrong was pretending he was protector of the omertà but he was actively trying to get other cyclists busted or have pressure applied to them to limit their doping.

For me there are so many dots not connected. This is is not a simple case of man buys dope then uses..... there's much more at play here....

 

[doolols]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-reveals-armstrong-made-two-donations-to-the-uci
It came from his company CSE. And the fact that the $100,000 came from CSE explains to me why he said $25,000. He may not have directly known about the later $100,000 donation."

Really? He "may not have known" about a $100,000 donation from a company he was involved with (even though it was Bill Stapleton's company)? For drug testing equipment in a sport in which he made his name?

Yeah, right.

 

[doolols]

Why oh why was he donating doping machines & writing letters to the UCI to go harder after the Spanish cyclists?
<snip>
This is is not a simple case of man buys dope then uses..... there's much more at play here....

It seems to me to be a clever ploy - *cough* "buying protection".

 

[doolols]

Why was the "Donation" $125,000 if the machine was only $80,000? Did the rest go to the McQuaid liver transplant fund?

The $125,000 was two donations at different times. Even so, if $100,000 were to be donated for a $80,000 machine, perhaps there were shipping costs. Installation costs. Commissioning costs. Or "extra expenses".

 

[Race Radio]

The $125,000 was two donations at different times. Even so, if $100,000 were to be donated for a $80,000 machine, perhaps there were shipping costs. Installation costs. Commissioning costs. Or "extra expenses".

True. The UCI most likely spent the leftover $420,000 trying to find a cure for cancer.

 

[thehog]

True. The UCI most likely spent the leftover $420,000 trying to find a cure for cancer.

I'm not sure what they were doing with the money. I know McQuaid had an apartment and all his living expenses paid for but how does one make 500k disappear.....?

 

[Microchip]

I'm not sure what they were doing with the money. I know McQuaid had an apartment and all his living expenses paid for but how does one make 500k disappear.....?

You it give to a woman, of course.

We are very adept at spending, you know.

Shoes, dresses, purses, purses to match the bike...and so on.

 

[doolols]

I'm not sure what they were doing with the money. I know McQuaid had an apartment and all his living expenses paid for but how does one make 500k disappear.....?

The UCI is based in ... Switzerland? And the centre of secret banking in Europe is based in ... Switzerland? That's a coincidence.

 

[Velodude]

Really? He "may not have known" about a $100,000 donation from a company he was involved with (even though it was Bill Stapleton's company)? For drug testing equipment in a sport in which he made his name?

Yeah, right.

Originally Posted by Velodude
It came from his company CSE. And the fact that the $100,000 came from CSE explains to me why he said $25,000. He may not have directly known about the later $100,000 donation."

doolols:

If you are quoting me in future ensure it is my work and not that part of a quote from Pat McQuaid in CyclingNews.

The above reference was a quote from CyclingNews copied and pasted to make it appear I had made that statement.

 

[doolols]

Sorry, Velodude - nothing intentional. I've edited my post to clarify.

 

[Berzin]

The absurdity of it all was Armstrong was doping his head off. Why oh why was he donating doping machines & writing letters to the UCI to go harder after the Spanish cyclists? It's all very weird.

It's not that weird when you think about it. I'm sure Armstrong felt he was performing a public service, as his fight against cancer was and still is a charade along the same lines.

To have agencies like the UCI in his pocket and the public awareness that he is fighting doping with such donations makes him look like a hero.

So he achieves multiple goals at once-

1) It fulfills his narcissistic need to be revered by the general public (whom he loathes).

2) The governing body meant to deal with doping issues now work for HIM.

3) The public image of Armstrong as the crusading All-American do-gooder who comes in like an old time Texas sheriff to clean up what the lazy, sloppy and corrupt Euros couldn't. A man like this couldn't possibly resort to cheating after funding one of those machines meant to catch him if he were doping, now could he?

 

[thehog]

It's not that weird when you think about it. I'm sure Armstrong felt he was performing a public service, as his fight against cancer was and still is a charade along the same lines.

To have agencies like the UCI in his pocket and the public awareness that he is fighting doping with such donations makes him look like a hero.

So he achieves multiple goals at once-

1) It fulfills his narcissistic need to be revered by the general public (whom he loathes).

2) The governing body meant to deal with doping issues now work for HIM.

3) The public image of Armstrong as the crusading All-American do-gooder who comes in like an old time Texas sheriff to clean up what the lazy, sloppy and corrupt Euros couldn't. A man like this couldn't possibly resort to cheating after funding one of those machines meant to catch him if he were doping, now could he?

The psychology of it all is very interesting. In the sense what possessed him to keep it up. The doping I can understand. Thats was pro cycling back in the day but the "moral crusading" and the crushing of anyone who questioned it. Its a little frightening and probably indicative of everything that was wrong with that era in all walks of life - Profit above all else.

I watched the ToC denial again from 2010. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPl1yP7eaRw&feature=related

What's interesting is his body language and mannerisms. You certainly sense that he knows he's lying but he's trying to rationalise his behaviour and a few times he tosses Floyd's "mental stability" to the journalists to see if they bite without him really saying anything about it - "the weasel phrase" - "Well they said it not me - they questioned his mental stability not me". Its the phrase you say then have an exit point to suggest you didn't actually say it that you were just repeating what someone else said.

The fact that he brings up the Floyd Foundation and his book appears to be a light bulb moment for him. He stops talking and knows what he is saying actually applies to himself - his eyes roll back, he crosses his arms knowing what exactly is saying. Pivotal.

The more I watch the video the more I find him such an abhorrent man and an extremely creepy person. Without going too far there's something not right about Armstrong. He's doesn't appear 'real" anymore. I guess we'll find more about his personality in the coming months but the more I see and hear from him the more it confirms I was right to protest about him all the way from 1999 to present day.