Official Lance Armstrong Thread **READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING**

[LarryBudMelman]

Actually it is not a minor point - it is exactly the point.
If it was discussed in a forum as LA is being discussed he would be as (if not moreso) guilty than the bio-chemist. "The guy owned the business that made unapproved drugs, he is probably looking at 10 years for that alone...."

He struck a plea bargain. Do you think Armstrong will do that? Also, Conte didn't have a PR machine creating a myth about him that was going to catapault him to Governor of a state and maybe POTUS.

Please say you don't mean this in relation to HemAssist.
Someone "lost" a couple of boxes. Half a career's worth for a well responding cyclist. The owner or CEO of the producer goes to jail, and the guy that used it to defrauded 28 million cancer sufferers, donors and all who stood in line for bullying, he goes free?

Great post! I can't understand how people can not see the extent of one of the greatest frauds of all time.

 

[thehog]

Not sure what President Clinton has to do with the Lance thread?
Bill and Lance are friends - that's on topic I guess.
They worked together on some projects too
And they are both awesome. Bingo!

You're not as potent as you used to be. You've lost something - it.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Not sure what President Clinton has to do with the Lance thread?
Bill and Lance are friends - that's on topic I guess.
They worked together on some projects too
And they are both awesome. Bingo!

We were talking about the legal aspects of their cases and what constitutes perjury.

They're obviously both liars too!

What projects were they working on together? Picking up skeezers?

I tell you, I'd love to hang out with both of them. What a night out that would be!

They're definitely "arms length friends" though. You can't trust either one of them as far as you can throw them.

 

[Polish]

Anybody have any idea on what the news is?

Reinstein said Armstrong would use the site to announce news in the next several days.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...stake-in-mobli-social-networking-company.html

 

[The Plediadian]

We were talking about the legal aspects of their cases and what constitutes perjury.

They're obviously both liars too!

What projects were they working on together? Picking up skeezers?

I tell you, I'd love to hang out with both of them. What a night out that would be!

They're definitely "arms length friends" though. You can't trust either one of them as far as you can throw them.

Sorry both those guys don't lie. Also Clinton made amends with George H.W. Bush and they will be doing commercials together at the Super Bowl 2012. Looking forward to seeing HW, Clinton, Lance and Jeff Novitzky doing commercials at Super Bowl 2013. Share the love.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Then please do not use legal anything like 'precedent' and 'settled law' among other things like you did in your last comment. It only adds junk to the already noisy thread.

Like I said, I'm not a lawyer. If you can enlighten me, fire away. I don't know if I mentioned anything about precedents but I don't think the legal profession has a copywrite on that word.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Anybody have any idea on what the news is?



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...stake-in-mobli-social-networking-company.html

They're entering into an agreement with these guys.

http://www.bop.gov/

 

[Race Radio]

Not sure what President Clinton has to do with the Lance thread?
Bill and Lance are friends - that's on topic I guess.
They worked together on some projects too
And they are both awesome. Bingo!

Come on Polish, you know better then that

Clinton's lawyer was Lanny A. Breuer. Clinton's political director and spokesperson was Chris Lehane. Chris and lanny worked side by side for 4 years defending Clinton.....but what are they doing now?

Lanny is now head of the criminal division of the justice department. It is Lanny is who gives approval for the investigation and prosecution of Armstrong. The buck stops with him.

Chris Lehane? he runs a small PR in San Diego with his partner, Mark Fabiani. Yes, that Mark Fabiani. The Fabricator.

You didn't think Wonderboy hired Fabiani for his skills did you? Nope, connections are what matter.....but connections will not save him.

 

[Velodude]

Anybody have any idea on what the news is?



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...stake-in-mobli-social-networking-company.html

You have to give it to LA. He certainly has a super optimistic approach about his future.

“When I was first introduced to Mobli, I immediately thought it was an extraordinary platform and an innovative yet accessible way for different audiences to share their stories,” said Armstrong in a statement. “I’m excited to use Mobli as a direct channel for my social media followers to get a personal look at my experiences day to day.”

I would not consider the worst case scenario would be included in the "lives of the rich and famous"

 

[LarryBudMelman]

“I’m excited to use Mobli as a direct channel for my social media followers to get a personal look at my experiences day to day.” "

If his experiences weren't all staged horse $hit the show would be fascinating.

 

[Race Radio]

“I’m excited to use Mobli as a direct channel for my social media followers to get a personal look at my experiences day to day.”

Is it too much to hope for some Hookers and Blow?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He struck a plea bargain. Do you think Armstrong will do that? Also, Conte didn't have a PR machine creating a myth about him that was going to catapault him to Governor of a state and maybe POTUS.

Conte, he did strike a deal - my point for a guy who seemed so guilty of so many potential crimes spending 4 months in a minimum security prison was not a bad deal.

As for Armstrong - if he was smart he should take a plea deal, but he ain't that smart and his lawyers will be happy to bleed him through a trial. I expect him to fight it.
No idea what a PR team has to so with any potential sentence, it will count for little.

Great post! I can't understand how people can not see the extent of one of the greatest frauds of all time.

Which people think that?

You think he is going straight to jail - I think there is a lot of work to do for that to happen, that's our only difference.
And to me it does not matter if or what custodial sentence he gets - he will be viewed as a cheat and a fraud long before that anyway.
As soon as any charges or indictments are announced it is effectively over for him - the last few doubters will be turned, his dopituary is already written by most of the media.

 

[DirtyWorks]

What's the precedent for not allowing anyone other than a lawyer to use the word precedent?

Hugh,

1. I wrote the reply in haste. I probably meant something else written.
2. My point being, Larry "Bud" Melman is not a lawyer and adding more legal could-be's and citing cases as if the forum member has some expertise in the matter doesn't improve discourse. We have a hard enough time reciting the facts every time a new pretender shows up.

Bottom line: it's fertile ground for the next Public Strategies troll.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Hugh,

1. I wrote the reply in haste. I probably meant something else written.
2. My point being, Larry "Bud" Melman is not a lawyer and adding more legal could-be's and citing cases as if the forum member has some expertise in the matter doesn't improve discourse. We have a hard enough time reciting the facts every time a new pretender shows up.

Bottom line: it's fertile ground for the next Public Strategies troll.

I answered specific questions very specifically.

If you have an objection to what I've said, state it.

You do realize that the law is not an abstraction? It applies to normal everyday people and the events that take place in their lives.

If you can specifically discredit anything I said go for it. I don't think you can though.

Knowing that a charge of perjury requires proving the accused lied about a material issue under oath doesn't evince a great legal mind, it's pretty fundamental and I was just pointing that out.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Now this is interesting

A Big Apple tech upstart is hoping cycling great Lance Armstrong still has some giddyap left in the tank.
The seven-time Tour de France winner has snapped up a stake in Mobli, a socialnetworking startup, and will use his fame and legendary drive to help the company gain traction in the competitive field of mobile apps, The Post has learned.


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/lance_lot_com_i2GQrHxNKrhK2V90Ui4wUO#ixzz1lD2zpdaQ

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Conte, he did strike a deal - my point for a guy who seemed so guilty of so many potential crimes spending 4 months in a minimum security prison was not a bad deal.

As for Armstrong - if he was smart he should take a plea deal, but he ain't that smart and his lawyers will be happy to bleed him through a trial. I expect him to fight it.
No idea what a PR team has to so with any potential sentence, it will count for little.


Which people think that?

You think he is going straight to jail - I think there is a lot of work to do for that to happen, that's our only difference.
And to me it does not matter if or what custodial sentence he gets - he will be viewed as a cheat and a fraud long before that anyway.
As soon as any charges or indictments are announced it is effectively over for him - the last few doubters will be turned, his dopituary is already written by most of the media.

I think the issues are fairly straightforward. I think Armstrong's crimes fall well within what is required to be prosecuted under the RICO statute. I believe that the professionals who are involved in conducting the investigation will have no problem connecting Armstrong to the crimes using both overwhelming eyewitness and forensic accounting evidence.

The investigation is uncovering a massive, well organized fraud which takes time to reconstruct and present to the proper legal channels.

All the other obfuscation by Armstrong's attorneys, Armstrong himself, and people like you who would somehow "settle" for sanctions less than those called for by the justice system, is bs.

You seem to think the gigantic fraud Armstrong perpetrated doesn't demand more than a public humiliation.

I think sending Armstrong to prison will send a very clear message of deterrence to just about anyone whose awareness of cycling God LA was raised by his fraudulent, self created, mythology. It will give pause to many of those who may think of following in his footsteps, by weighing the risk/reward.

 

[Cimacoppi48]

Valentine's Day is coming. Tuesday. Who loves Lance?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think the issues are fairly straightforward. I think Armstrong's crimes fall well within what is required to be prosecuted under the RICO statute. I believe that the professionals who are involved in conducting the investigation will have no problem connecting Armstrong to the crimes using both overwhelming eyewitness and forensic accounting evidence.

The investigation is uncovering a massive, well organized fraud which takes time to reconstruct and present to the proper legal channels.

All the other obfuscation by Armstrong's attorneys, Armstrong himself, and people like you who would somehow "settle" for sanctions less than those called for by the justice system, is bs.

Thanks for calling something I didn't say BS, whatever sanctions he gets will be in the Justice system.
Whatever Armstrong is charged with I hope he serves - but I look at the reality that many who go before the Courts escape prison (which is what you automatically assume) as their high paid lawyers dilute the penalties. It does not mean they are any less guilty.

You seem to think the gigantic fraud Armstrong perpetrated doesn't demand more than a public humiliation.

As I never said that, then no.

I think sending Armstrong to prison will send a very clear message of deterrence to just about anyone whose awareness of cycling God LA was raised by his fraudulent, self created, mythology. It will give pause to many of those who may think of following in his footsteps, by weighing the risk/reward.

Really? So if Armstrong escapes prison (even though it will cost him vast amounts financially, his 'legacy' in ruins, and being viewed as the biggest fraud in sport) that it may not deter someone?

There is little point continuing this - your opening line that this is "straightforward" is revealing. It is not, but I am more impressed in Velodudes summary than your extremist position that puts those who do not think LA will serve prison time as LA fans or apologists.
For me, prison time would be the cherry on top.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Thanks for calling something I didn't say BS, whatever sanctions he gets will be in the Justice system.
Whatever Armstrong is charged with I hope he serves - but I look at the reality that many who go before the Courts escape prison (which is what you automatically assume) as their high paid lawyers dilute the penalties. It does not mean they are any less guilty.


As I never said that, then no..

Both myself and Python quoted you on what you said regarding MJ's perjury, so there is little hope that if I dared to paraphrase what you said that you'd agree to that characterization.

Really? So if Armstrong escapes prison (even though it will cost him vast amounts financially, his 'legacy' in ruins, and being viewed as the biggest fraud in sport) that it may not deter someone?

There is little point continuing this - your opening line that this is "straightforward" is revealing. It is not, but I am more impressed in Velodudes summary than your extremist position that puts those who do not think LA will serve prison time as LA fans or apologists.
For me, prison time would be the cherry on top.

Revealing of what? That I can read and can follow up with my opinion of what that knowledge requires of me? That I can state LA belongs in prison and it is completely obvious from even the relatively small amount of information (in comparison to the iceburg that will be revealed) that's available to the publicl My opinion is extremist? Now you're borrowing from MarkvW to protect your miscalculation?

Armstrong should be convicted and sent to prison? The evidence is there in spades to do so? Do you agree or not?

The only reason Armstrong will escape prison is what I've stated before, that simple people on juries get confused by the idiotic obfuscation of unscrupulous defense attorneys.

Despite this, Armstrong's guilt is evident to anyone who is paying attention and still has a pulse.

There is little point as python proved.

Velodude's summary showed how obviously the RICO statute applies to Pharmstrong in a post that took him 5 minutes to write. That's very straightforward. My take is the same as his.

This is what you wrote pertaining to what I described as settling.

And to me it does not matter if or what custodial sentence he gets - he will be viewed as a cheat and a fraud long before that anyway.
As soon as any charges or indictments are announced it is effectively over for him - the last few doubters will be turned, his dopituary is already written by most of the media..

People who are guilty of RICO crimes should be in prison, not only the losers of PR battles.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Both myself and Python quoted you on what you said regarding MJ's perjury, so there is little hope that if I dared to paraphrase what you said that you'd agree to that characterization.

What has MJs perjury got to do with the above? And I stand by what I said in total - not just the little out of context Python 'quoted' which has nothing to do with any point because all his posts discussed me, not the issue.

There is little point as python proved.

Velodude's summary showed how obviously the RICO statute applies to Pharmstrong in a post that took him 5 minutes to write. That's very straightforward. My take is the same as his.

Yes, it took Velodude 5 minutes to write, yet it is taking the Feds close to 2 years to prove show and write up.
And before you go off accusing me of believing or promoting the myth, I am confident the Feds will bring charges, and that it is good that they are taking their time to strengthen their case.

This is what you wrote pertaining to what I described as settling.



People who are guilty of RICO crimes should be in prison, not only the losers of PR battles.

There you go again - putting what you want the law to be instead of finding out what the law states - some crimes come with financial penalties and no prison time.

 

[MarkvW]

Both myself and Python quoted you on what you said regarding MJ's perjury, so there is little hope that if I dared to paraphrase what you said that you'd agree to that characterization.





Revealing of what? That I can read and can follow up with my opinion of what that knowledge requires of me? That I can state LA belongs in prison and it is completely obvious from even the relatively small amount of information (in comparison to the iceburg that will be revealed) that's available to the publicl My opinion is extremist? Now you're borrowing from MarkvW to protect your miscalculation?

Armstrong should be convicted and sent to prison? The evidence is there in spades to do so? Do you agree or not?

The only reason Armstrong will escape prison is what I've stated before, that simple people on juries get confused by the idiotic obfuscation of unscrupulous defense attorneys.

Despite this, Armstrong's guilt is evident to anyone who is paying attention and still has a pulse.

There is little point as python proved.

Velodude's summary showed how obviously the RICO statute applies to Pharmstrong in a post that took him 5 minutes to write. That's very straightforward. My take is the same as his.

This is what you wrote pertaining to what I described as settling.



People who are guilty of RICO crimes should be in prison, not only the losers of PR battles.

Does this fairly summarize the points you are trying to make: (1) Lance is obviously guilty of LEADING ORGANIZED CRIME under the RICO statutes. This is established by the legal analysis provided by Velodude (and written in five minutes). (2) The feds will surely charge Lance with the above, because the guilt is so obvious. (3) Absent a stupid jury (and lots of juries are stupid), Lance will be convicted because the evidence is overwhelming. (4) Lance should be sentenced to prison because the law requires it. "Settling" for anything less is "bs."

Am I missing anything?

 

[python]

Python 'quoted' which has nothing to do with any point because all his posts discussed me, not the issue.

jeezus, directly quoting you (in stead of paraphrasing) your ridiculous statements that marion jones perjury had nothing to do with doping equals discussing YOU ???? pointing to your inability to agree to disagree and go on for 10 pages with larry when only 1% separates you and 99% is common is too much to ask ?? you need a serious look at yourself, maserati.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

jeezus, directly quoting you (in stead of paraphrasing) your ridiculous statements that marion jones perjury had nothing to do with doping equals discussing YOU ???? pointing to your inability to agree to disagree and go on for 10 pages with larry when only 1% separates you and 99% is common is too much to ask ?? you need a serious look at yourself, maserati.

Thanks for proving my point - it takes 2 to argue, yet all your posts focus on me? Hmm...


Your direct quote, as you call it, rather selectively left out the context of the debate and ignored an earlier post where I went in to more detail on Jones perjury. I never said Jones perjury had nothing to do with doping, I said she did not go to prison for doping, but perjury. As I said, you are not here to offer anything to the subject.

 

[python]

Here is you again in your own words.

Jones was done for perjury. Nothing to do with doping

.
Everyone can make their own mind if this is discussing you or the ridiculous statement you keep defending. yes, you are not here to discuss the subject if you can’t agree to disagree with a poster uniting you 99%.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Here is you again in your own words.

Originally Posted by maserati
Jones was done for perjury. Nothing to do with doping

.
Everyone can make their own mind if this is discussing you or the ridiculous statement you keep defending. yes, you are not here to discuss the subject if you can’t agree to disagree with a poster uniting you 99%.

Yes, everyone can make their mind up - as doolols did but God help them if they do as you will berate them.

If it was so ridiculous you would be able to show it is not true or accurate.
Jones was "done" for perjury. That is why she went to prison - that is also why I linked the case of Jason Giambi, he admitted before the GJ that he had used PEDs he got from BALCO- yet, he did not serve a sentence, because unlike Jones he did not commit perjury.

As for the 99%- 1%, the 1% is that Larrybud believes all the 'evidence' will mean Armstrong will do jailtime, I am not yet confident of that, that is all.