Official London Olympics Doping thread

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Jul 19, 2012
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Hope this is the right thread to post this, happy for it to be moved if necessary.



Link to a very short video about drug testing at the Olympics by Bob Stewart from Victoria University in Australia, apparently advocating a move to semi - legalising doping in sport.

I am not sure that I can disagree with him enough.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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The Italian 50 km walker and 2008 Olympic Champ Alex Schwazer told the usual omerta' lies after being busted "I did all by myself. I bought the EPO and learned how to use it on internet. I used it once, mid-July (he was tested July, 30th). My fiance (ice skating star Carolina Costner, in whose apartment in Germany the test took place) and my coach Didoni didn't know anything. All my successes before July 2012 were clean".

There's one unexpected answer though, when asked why he doped, after being so vocal against doping, not part of his culture: "At the 2011 World Championships, in Daegu, South Korea, Russians told it to my face that they use these things, and this has bugged my mind since then".

When asked "Did someone help you?", Schwazer answered... "I don't want to go to prison".

It seems Alex Schwazer is on a list of probable clients of our dear Dr. Ferrari.

(freely translated from la Gazzetta dello Sport, 7.8.2012)

Will the Russians sue?
 
Jun 15, 2010
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User Guide said:
I think GSK want to move into sports drinks/supplements etc proper drugs take lots of money and pressure from generics and copies weigh heavy.
Hiring Keen and getting involved with the olympics seems like smart business to me.
I think is more cynical marketing etc as im pretty sure Keen is there as a name/figurehead is he a doctor specialising in nutrition etc ?
Or you could be right.Alls fair in love war and business

GSK are already in the sports drink business.They own Lucozade.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Leopejo said:
The Italian 50 km walker and 2008 Olympic Champ Alex Schwazer told the usual omerta' lies after being busted "I did all by myself. I bought the EPO and learned how to use it on internet. I used it once, mid-July (he was tested July, 30th). My fiance (ice skating star Carolina Costner, in whose apartment in Germany the test took place) and my coach Didoni didn't know anything. All my successes before July 2012 were clean".

There's one unexpected answer though, when asked why he doped, after being so vocal against doping, not part of his culture: "At the 2011 World Championships, in Daegu, South Korea, Russians told it to my face that they use these things, and this has bugged my mind since then".

When asked "Did someone help you?", Schwazer answered... "I don't want to go to prison".

It seems Alex Schwazer is on a list of probable clients of our dear Dr. Ferrari.

(freely translated from la Gazzetta dello Sport, 7.8.2012)

Will the Russians sue?

Nice! thanks for the translation.

Yesterday there was more on German television about blooddoping by Kenians. Quite disturbing. Kisorio spilled the beans practically on the entire KEnian athletics industry.
 
Did y'all catch slomo footage of the 20k walk race? It was an outright farce. Not one athlete in the lead group at any stage made a legal stride. All of them getting very significant air time. Also the declared winner. totally subjective who gets to incur fewer technical warnings, if they all run rather than walk, all the time, no exception.
 
Aug 5, 2012
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Yep, the slow motion footage has basically exposed the fact they never make legal strides and it is pretty much impossible to do so if you are going to go at the pace they do.
 
Don't know how it is nowadays but my mother used to compete when I was young at the walk events round the track, and there used to be an elevated position where the judges could sit with binoculars to disqualify athletes that would take illegal strides. Pretty sure she won the regional championship due to 2 disqualifications.

I guess one man with binoculars can't compete with slow motion cameras though.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Leopejo said:
The Italian 50 km walker and 2008 Olympic Champ Alex Schwazer told the usual omerta' lies after being busted "I did all by myself. I bought the EPO and learned how to use it on internet. I used it once, mid-July (he was tested July, 30th). My fiance (ice skating star Carolina Costner, in whose apartment in Germany the test took place) and my coach Didoni didn't know anything. All my successes before July 2012 were clean".

There's one unexpected answer though, when asked why he doped, after being so vocal against doping, not part of his culture: "At the 2011 World Championships, in Daegu, South Korea, Russians told it to my face that they use these things, and this has bugged my mind since then".

When asked "Did someone help you?", Schwazer answered... "I don't want to go to prison".

It seems Alex Schwazer is on a list of probable clients of our dear Dr. Ferrari.

(freely translated from la Gazzetta dello Sport, 7.8.2012)

Will the Russians sue?

sniper said:
Nice! thanks for the translation.

Yesterday there was more on German television about blooddoping by Kenians. Quite disturbing. Kisorio spilled the beans practically on the entire KEnian athletics industry.

They are all dirty (except the long jumpers who couldn´t even top the WR of Ralph Boston of 1964). ARD said they had caught the walker only b/c of surveillance of telefons (did they say Dr. Ferrari? :eek:), and only then tested him. Otherwise he might have been a 2012 olympic champ.

And then some 1-time-clinic-posters come up and cry "proof proof proof". There is no proof unless outside of sports bodies catch the dopers. Tests are (almost) not working. Only against the dumbest (original quote of Seppelt), or the no name scapegoats.
 
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
And then some 1-time-clinic-posters come up and cry "proof proof proof". There is no proof unless outside of sports bodies catch the dopers. Tests are (almost) not working. Only against the dumbest (original quote of Seppelt), or the no name scapegoats.

Exactly. And this is why we can't handwave signals as a dodgy medical team. Because there is virtually no chance that frauds are exposed by the regular mechanisms. Only when an investigation is done the truth comes out.
 

mastersracer

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Jun 8, 2010
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Franklin said:
Exactly. And this is why we can't handwave signals as a dodgy medical team. Because there is virtually no chance that frauds are exposed by the regular mechanisms. Only when an investigation is done the truth comes out.

What some people are asking for is critical thinking, an evaluation of performances involving metrics, comparisons to an athletes prior performances, etc. When there was a discussion of variability in Wiggins' power output over the years, you immediately dismissed the possibility. You chimed in like an expert, dismissed the well-known existence of variation among power meters depending on measured source, calibration validation, and drift. You appeared interested in only one conclusion of doping. It took Andy Coggan to reveal how naive your comments were. That discussion has ended with a critical analysis of Wiggins' power - with his recent performances being consistent with his historical power. Talk about dodgy doctors all you want but don't ignore the fact that a well-informed analysis of Wiggins has shown his performances to be historically self-consistent.

Many people here - including Coggan - simply want the standards of the discussion to be higher. Are we seeing PED-implicated performances at the Olympics? Likely - but the direct inference from virtually every victory to doping is uninteresting.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Franklin said:
Exactly. And this is why we can't handwave signals as a dodgy medical team. Because there is virtually no chance that frauds are exposed by the regular mechanisms. Only when an investigation is done the truth comes out.

And that means in reverse we can call them more or less* all dirty until the protecting governing bodies are completely left out of controlling their athlets. They come up with the alibi no name scapegoat now and then, but let the "superstars" do their thing.

*And Bolt tops the list. He trains in a far away no testing land, had suspicious performance jumps like never seen before (outside of Armstrong), and broke WR´s his predecessors until the high tech dope era beginning with the 90s had a tough time to break even at altitude.

All the "science" of high leg lift, height, cadence and other BS is just brought up to fool the masses...
 
mastersracer said:
What some people are asking for is critical thinking, an evaluation of performances involving metrics, comparisons to an athletes prior performances, etc. When there was a discussion of variability in Wiggins' power output over the years, you immediately dismissed the possibility. You chimed in like an expert, dismissed the well-known existence of variation among power meters depending on measured source, calibration validation, and drift. You appeared interested in only one conclusion of doping. It took Andy Coggan to reveal how naive your comments were.

Ohohoh :) So a lie has to be inserted to smear me?

I directly asked why you wanted to know about the calibration and showed why I thought it was not a factor. I immediately accepted the smackdown from Andy without a hitch. Not because it was Andy Coggan, but because I found empirical data from his hand. So get this... when someone tells me I'm wrong i do some research and fully agree with them. Shows how vested I am in my views and how bad it is to discuss with me eh? ;)

You are a fine piece of work.

That discussion has ended with a critical analysis of Wiggins' power - with his recent performances being consistent with his historical power. Talk about dodgy doctors all you want but don't ignore the fact that a well-informed analysis of Wiggins has shown his performances to be historically self-consistent.

Bull****. Hogslop and rubbish. Do we need to remind you of the packfodder doping? Do you really want to judge anyone innocent because his powerfile is okay (which is still under discussion simply due to a lack of data).

You are a fine piece of work.

Many people here - including Coggan - simply want the standards of the discussion to be higher.

Oh make up another teary eyed story. If we do what you want we laud Sky/GB and handwave the evidence of the dodgy doctors.

You love to dodge that question, why do you think those doctors are there? Why only confess there is one after public scrutiny when there are two?

Well, someone with that powerfile simply can't dope. Now that is a high standard of discussion :rolleyes:
 
sniper said:
Nice! thanks for the translation.

Yesterday there was more on German television about blooddoping by Kenians. Quite disturbing. Kisorio spilled the beans practically on the entire KEnian athletics industry.

Any chance there is a transcript or corresponding article to link to? The only little bit I've seen is that he is afraid for his own safety now. Loving the way the German press is not letting up on Kenyan doping
 
Jun 15, 2009
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More Strides than Rides said:
Any chance there is a transcript or corresponding article to link to? The only little bit I've seen is that he is afraid for his own safety now. Loving the way the German press is not letting up on Kenyan doping

It´s here:

FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Now this is about Kenya runners. But it can be easily to transfered to other countries such as Jamaica, Ethiopia etc...

Interview with Hajo Seppelt (a guy who sometimes is way over top in his hypocrisy about Ullrich and cycling in gerneral; but he´s also the guy who uncovered Contadors blood doping... err, Steak-Doping ;)). Anyway, whoever thinks Bolt is dominating b/c of cadence, leg lift, height or other nonsense is brutally naive. Again, as Hereida thinks too, nobody can run below 9.9 clean. Nobody. To undermine it all, the important parts are bolded. I hope the english translation is ok.

The Link:
http://olympia.ard.de/london2012/allemeldungen/kenia167.html

The translation:

Elite runners from Kenya admits doping in the ARD

Mathew Kipkoech Kisorio is a world class athlete - and he has doped. ARD-doping expert Hajo Seppelt and television writer Robert Kempe have gone with the assistance of the ARD correspondent Jochen Tassler on the trail of the Long Distance Runner and met the 23-year-old, tenth of the Boston Marathon. In an interview with ARD Kisorio was the first Kenyan athlete to publicly admit the use of banned substances.

Hajo Seppelt Interview with sportschau.de about the background, knowledge, and the anti-doping campaign in Kenya:

Mr. Seppelt, how has it come to the meeting with Mathew Kisorio?
Seppelt: We have researched in Kenya for several months on possible doping practices. Once there, we already made some curious observations, in parallel to the number of doping cases that were clearly evident in Kenya. One case was Mathew Kisorio. He is an absolute world-class runner who runs 10,000 m in under 27 minutes. On 14 June he was at the Kenyan Championships in Nairobi and tested positive for a steroid. Then we tried in Kenya, to get at him, which we succeeded. In the interview he was the first Kenyan to admit that he have manipulated on a grand scale.

For what reasons he has entrusted to you?
Seppelt: He apparently hopes that he gets, through the elucidation of the facts, a reduced ban by the National Association of Kenya. Therefore, he has gone on the offensive and has spoken to us.

Why did he drugged?
Seppelt: He claims that he was incited by his doctor. With better results, which are easier by doping, an athlete earned money. The doctor wanted to have his share. The doctor has apparently given him injections of banned substances and also tablets. One of these tablets led to the alleged positive test.

Is Kisorio an isolated incident or is this coming from a system?
Seppelt: Kisorios statements give the impression that not only he is affected, but it is a common phenomenon in Kenya. His credo is that many doctors in Kenya all over the country work with athletes. Including the doctor, with whom he was dealing, is said to have looked after other world class athletes too. May also Olympic participants. The doctors can be seen in places where preferred athletes live, such as in the training camps in the highlands. His observations on this practice are, that this is not an isolated phenomenon, but is wide spread all over Kenya. The athletes are more or less the victim of a profit-driven medical profession, he says.

Do you think this likely?
Seppelt: I can not imagine that the coaches and managers, who come mainly from Europe by the way, know nothing about it. But he did not accuse them in this interview.

In the Kenyan Olympic team, there was no positive test. What significance does this have?
Seppelt: In these Olympic games was not a single positive in-competition test. All previous cases of doping at this Olympics are due to pre-Olympic tests, ie outside the direct control of Olympic competition. But that's nothing special. In the competition controls only the dumbest get caught, because the (doping) products are already out of the (body) system by then. Nonetheless, the credibility of the Kenyan athletics is shaken. Moreover, no one can longer claim that this "Laufwunder" à la East Africa can be explained only b/c of the highland, good food and the running culture. It also plays an important role. But you must realize that certain substances are also a part.

What type doping is it exactly?
Seppelt: In Kisorio´s case it is steroids. But he also speaks of seemingly EPO injections, ie, blood doping, and also of (doping) products that stimulate the mind.

How is the anti-doping campaign in Kenya organized?
Seppelt: Certainly not optimal. There is now a Kenyan Anti-Doping Agency. But they can test only on a minimal level due to lack of funds in the country. The biggest problem is that in Kenya there are no blood tests, b/c of logistical reasons they are not feasible. This is obviously distressing, especially b/c Kenyan runners are world class since many years in the middle and long distance races. They are sometimes tested when they are running in europe. But never in their own country.

August 6th, 2012.

Aftermath: In live coverage today at ARD, the commentaor said that the Mr. Kisorio is hiding now, b/c he fears revenge and harm.
 

mastersracer

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Jun 8, 2010
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Franklin said:
Ohohoh :) So a lie has to be inserted to smear me?

I directly asked why you wanted to know about the calibration and showed why I thought it was not a factor. I immediately accepted the smackdown from Andy without a hitch. Not because it was Andy Coggan, but because I found empirical data from his hand. So get this... when someone tells me I'm wrong i do some research and fully agree with them. Shows how vested I am in my views and how bad it is to discuss with me eh? ;)

You are a fine piece of work.



Bull****. Hogslop and rubbish. Do we need to remind you of the packfodder doping? Do you really want to judge anyone innocent because his powerfile is okay (which is still under discussion simply due to a lack of data).

You are a fine piece of work.



Oh make up another teary eyed story. If we do what you want we laud Sky/GB and handwave the evidence of the dodgy doctors.

You love to dodge that question, why do you think those doctors are there? Why only confess there is one after public scrutiny when there are two?

Well, someone with that powerfile simply can't dope. Now that is a high standard of discussion :rolleyes:

Actually, you immediately replied to my comment with this

"There is no substantial inaccuracy in Powertap versus SRM. Both have been proven to be bang on (as is Quark and even the cheapo Power2max is fine)."


You didn't even understand my comment. You only backed down because an authority spanked you. Coggan completely dismantled the claim that Wiggins' recent performance was inconsistent with his historical performance, but you just can't resist the doping charges. You say here that the power data doesn't matter. And now you revert to sophomoric rhetoric, slurs, and emoticons. Man up and show some critical analysis with these other doping charges. Otherwise, your empty, histrionics aren't even worth replying to.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
It´s here:
Thanks, interesting read. Is there a reason than the German press seem to be a lot more proactive in digging out doping activities then in other countries? Shame other countries don't follow their lead.
 
mastersracer said:
Actually, you immediately replied to my comment with this

"There is no substantial inaccuracy in Powertap versus SRM. Both have been proven to be bang on (as is Quark and even the cheapo Power2max is fine)."

As I said, I retorted with points why I thought you were wrong, namely my own research when buying a PT hub.

And I was dead wrong. :cool:

You didn't even understand my comment.

Which I fully acknowledged.

Which I You only backed down because an authority spanked you.

Anyone can read the thread and see the exchange. I wasn't spanked, Andy was (deliberately) goading me to look deeper into the matter exposing my lack of knowledge. I had no hesistation to do the neccesary research and immediately accepted that I was wrong.

Somehow me doing research and acknowledging that I was wrong makes me vested and being stuborn? :confused: One would think that it shows that I'm very sensitive about evidence and have no problems admitting that my position is wrong.

maybe it's just me, but I see no problem in admitting I was wrong. I'm not sure what you are trying to accuse me of.

Coggan completely dismantled the claim that Wiggins' recent performance was inconsistent with his historical performance, but you just can't resist the doping charges. You say here that the power data doesn't matter.

Andy says it's still very much in line with Wiggins old performance. The results seem to belie that, but in the physiological discussion I am absolutely out of my league.

What's amazing here is that this somehow should stop me from questioning team Sky's employment of the doctors. Because let's expose another fabrication: I haven't claimed for a second that I know anyone dopes and I even said I can believe Sky is clean... but that the evidence (the doctors and intransparency)makes this currently impossible for me. It's pretty clear that I am in no way set about the status of Sky or Wiggins. However I am very much set against the handwavers. Because the handwaving gave us Lance Armstrong.

[quote[And now you revert to sophomoric rhetoric, slurs, and emoticons. Man up and show some critical analysis with these other doping charges. Otherwise, your empty, histrionics aren't even worth replying to.[/QUOTE]

I'll start with the non bolded. I gave the reasons for my suspicion from the start and have not strayed an inch.

1. Dodgy team structure
2. Historic evidence shows that the zero-hypothesis should be suspicion
3. Suspicion is better than handwaving as the former leads to clean cycling.

And yes, I love to remind you that this was the stance of a pro called Bradley Wiggins.

Now onto the more serious part, I did not start this full frontal smear attempt. But let's not bore the others with our apendix swinging, come at me in a PM or report me for being abusive.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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They got opened their eyes with Ullrich. And then, once they discover something, they really go to work. No holds barred until the final coffin. Be it for the good (like being No. 1 in machine construction, "green" industry, etc.) or the worse (going after Cycling and Ullrich in particular, or some 80 yrs back). No jobs are left unfinished....
BTW, i am different. At least i hope so. :D

BTW, i don´t wanna talk bad about Kenya. Beautiful country, women and beaches. But i can say Seppelt is 100% right. I was there 10+ times all over the country. I tell you corruption is rife. No way they ever control the doping disease there, no matter how much money would be invested. And i am sure that´s true for 90% of countries in the world. Just different traditions, wealth and infrastructure.

Edit: Like Vino once said: "We are here (in europe) to make money. The western countries should leave us alone with their morals."
 

the big ring

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Carbon doping? :mad:

405543_253730068063930_1784454621_n.jpg
 
Aug 12, 2009
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the big ring said:
Carbon doping? :mad:

405543_253730068063930_1784454621_n.jpg

Hahahaha. Nice play there. Thanks Gillard and Swan and the Greens for a fat lot of fail, fail, fail, fail and then some more fail. Next Federal election the results are looking dire for the Labor govt. They are set to lose by a big margin. Largest in history. Somewhere near 30 seats out of 149 is where they sit. Just like the NSW and QLD state govt's...annihilation.

But getting back to doping in sport. Interesting that news about the Kenians. No testing at all. Ban them. Ban the whole damn country. You can't do testing or won't submit to it, ban them. Might dispell the myth that only darker skinned African lineage can only run fast. No, they run faster on epo and blood doping. Someone needs to get WADA stronger powers to bi@tch slap all these idiot sporting bodies.

Talking about dopes. Velodrome. Lots of athletes there. Aussie swim team has shown up. Sitting between what I think was Bronte Barratt and another swimmer (with quite a reputation for partying and shacking up with other athletes) Stephanie Rice is guess who? Mr Basketball, I don't rape women, Kobe Bryant. So it's cool for Australian swimmers to hang with that goose, female no less, but Aussie male swimmers who post a photo on twitter of them in the USA holding guns have been told to leave the UK! Bryant went anywhere near my kid, he'd never play basketball again. Some people are truly brainless. Is he still married, or did I hear correctly that his wife had tossed him out? Maybe the USA mens swimmers, ahem cough cough Phelps, has been saying things about Rice. Reputatations to uphold hey?;) Can't stand the double standards Aussie officials use against the undesirables and the slack cut to the darlings and golden children.

Oh and Victorian Pendleton just got flogged. Good on her for clapping. Good race. Good to see the two fastest and best in the finals. Can't say the same for the team sports...lots of bribes and dodgy calls going. So the graph will need to change. Australia now has 3 gold...catching up to Kazakhstan!!!
 
Yuliya Zaripova

Did anyone see the 3k chase last night? It was crazy and proves that some of the Russians are still using a program. I have worked out a new dope test - it's the way the athlete blesses themselves before the race. Zaripova's was manic, even frantic with mutiple crossings whereas the cute chick in the 400m was slow, deliberate and genuinely reverent. She looked shattered when unplaced in the 400m and collapsed to the ground. Zaripova, on the other hand, was ready to go again.

Yup, I'm going to patent my test and present it to GlaxoSmithKline at the next opportunity.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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buckle said:
Did anyone see the 3k chase last night? It was crazy and proves that some of the Russians are still using a program. I have worked out a new dope test - it's the way the athlete bless themselves before the race. Zaripova's was manic, even frantic with mutiple crossings whereas the cute chick in the 400m was slow, deliberate and genuinely reverent. She looked shattered when unplaced in the 400m and collapsed to the ground. Zaripova, on the other hand, was ready to go again.

Yup, I'm going to patent my test and present it to GlaxoSmithKline at the next opportunity.
What happens if you are atheist or some other religion?