Official London Olympics Doping thread

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Aug 12, 2009
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Sylvester said:
Of course they are. A big number of doping cases over the last years, too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-19091188

Van den Hoogenband was 22 years old in Sydney.

Ok. I thought he was on 2-3 years older than Thorpe. He falls into the same outlier group that Phelps falls into. Most swimmers are toast by 24-25. Amazing swimmer none the less. Hoogie was great to watch in the 100m free.

Only a select few and they are always gold/silver/bronze medallists go past 25 years. The best of the best. Even then a lot disappear around then. The number of Aussie world champs and Olympic swimming medallists who just quit or stopped performing around 24 years is staggering. Those who come back, often do so under a heavily reduced program. They drop mass events and are very selective in what they race. Use to have a 5-8 race program at an event...now its cut in half.
 
Jul 23, 2012
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Galic Ho said:
King Carl won Gold in the long jump. He's not the face of clean sport. Speed is one part, your velocity at leap coupled with your angle of takeoff and flight aerodynamics. A lot of the sport is the pure power coupled with technique. Higher altitude with lower air density improves flight distance. By as much as Beamon did? Probably. Arguably the most technically gifted long jumper in history. Mexico City is approx 2000m in elevation. Or is it 1800m? Note all the other Mexico records have been smashed. Elevation played a huge part because of the flight aspect of the event itself.

Jumpers rarely get near the leap even at altitude. That games was amazing and it's striking to look at images of Hines, Smith and Evans who all looked so normal. Their times still incur the dreaded asterisk in record books because of the altitude factor. Ironic given what went on Sunday evening and what has been going on for decades.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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personal said:
Or both?
...

Combination I would say. They won't touch the people who make lots of money.

A. The Western people have better doctors
B. The Western people have more money to invest in defense
C. The Western people are often the face of the sport.
 
May 26, 2009
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Galic Ho said:

I made no claims about anyone being clean. If anyone here believes any of those I mentioned is clean I have a few bridges to sell ;)

I just named a few "old" swimmers. Inge was 30, which really is an anomaly. As mentioned, before Hoogeband was also "old", he retired at 30 and peaked at 26. But I estimated Thorpe the same age as Hoogeband, so I'm not a hair better ;)

I do think that clearly swimming is better for a younger physiology. Not a clue what the reason is, just looking at the data. :cool:
 
Aug 24, 2011
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I know Adlington is considering her future in swimming.

At the ripe old age of 23 now, she will be 27 come Rio.

With another whole new bunch of teenagers to chase.
 
May 26, 2009
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Caruut said:
That's an interesting question - are the horses for the equestrian events tested?
Of course. In fact even at the lower national levels it's controled. And might I add that they seem to be really on the ball too! Every month they pick out one or more doping cases according to the offical Union communique *The Netherlands*. The punishment is direct and precise: A ban and a fine.

Heh, if cycling would have THAT many cases I think the uproar would be earthshattering ;)
 
May 26, 2009
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I also do think that the immense amount of training done at a young age is a factor.

Whereas a runner or cyclist is happy after a win, a swimmer often says... pffffff.... finally I can enjoy life a bit. Note that this is my impression, I have no quantative proof. I simply noticed swimmers complaining about the insane workload.

The odd thing here is that I'm sure a cyclist put's in as much hours (athletic events not so, as the workload is to punative for the body). I guess it's less monotonous to cycle around instead of churn through the pool in your own world. I certainly read enough articles that suggests that a lot of pro cyclists enjoy a nice long low intensity ride.

For the last part I have evidence(articles where pro's discuss their triaing routes, a monthly article in our cycling magazine). The first part is once again the impression I get from swimmers describing their routine.
 
Jul 8, 2012
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Franklin said:
I also do think that the immense amount of training done at a young age is a factor.

Whereas a runner or cyclist is happy after a win, a swimmer often says... pffffff.... finally I can enjoy life a bit. Note that this is my impression, I have no quantative proof. I simply noticed swimmers complaining about the insane workload.

The odd thing here is that I'm sure a cyclist put's in as much hours (athletic events not so, as the workload is to punative for the body). I guess it's less monotonous to cycle around instead of churn through the pool in your own world. I certainly read enough articles that suggests that a lot of pro cyclists enjoy a nice long low intensity ride.

For the last part I have evidence(articles where pro's discuss their triaing routes, a monthly article in our cycling magazine). The first part is once again the impression I get from swimmers describing their routine.

I have heard something similar from a friend who used to be an international class swimmer. He quit rather early because it was just too boring, and unpleasant spending so many hours in a pool.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Now this is about Kenya runners. But it can be easily to transfered to other countries such as Jamaica, Ethiopia etc...

Interview with Hajo Seppelt (a guy who sometimes is way over top in his hypocrisy about Ullrich and cycling in gerneral; but he´s also the guy who uncovered Contadors blood doping... err, Steak-Doping ;)). Anyway, whoever thinks Bolt is dominating b/c of cadence, leg lift, height or other nonsense is brutally naive. Again, as Hereida thinks too, nobody can run below 9.9 clean. Nobody. To undermine it all, the important parts are bolded. I hope the english translation is ok.

The Link:
http://olympia.ard.de/london2012/allemeldungen/kenia167.html

The translation:

Elite runners from Kenya admits doping in the ARD

Mathew Kipkoech Kisorio is a world class athlete - and he has doped. ARD-doping expert Hajo Seppelt and television writer Robert Kempe have gone with the assistance of the ARD correspondent Jochen Tassler on the trail of the Long Distance Runner and met the 23-year-old, tenth of the Boston Marathon. In an interview with ARD Kisorio was the first Kenyan athlete to publicly admit the use of banned substances.

Hajo Seppelt Interview with sportschau.de about the background, knowledge, and the anti-doping campaign in Kenya:

Mr. Seppelt, how has it come to the meeting with Mathew Kisorio?
Seppelt: We have researched in Kenya for several months on possible doping practices. Once there, we already made some curious observations, in parallel to the number of doping cases that were clearly evident in Kenya. One case was Mathew Kisorio. He is an absolute world-class runner who runs 10,000 m in under 27 minutes. On 14 June he was at the Kenyan Championships in Nairobi and tested positive for a steroid. Then we tried in Kenya, to get at him, which we succeeded. In the interview he was the first Kenyan to admit that he have manipulated on a grand scale.

For what reasons he has entrusted to you?
Seppelt: He apparently hopes that he gets, through the elucidation of the facts, a reduced ban by the National Association of Kenya. Therefore, he has gone on the offensive and has spoken to us.

Why did he drugged?
Seppelt: He claims that he was incited by his doctor. With better results, which are easier by doping, an athlete earned money. The doctor wanted to have his share. The doctor has apparently given him injections of banned substances and also tablets. One of these tablets led to the alleged positive test.

Is Kisorio an isolated incident or is this coming from a system?
Seppelt: Kisorios statements give the impression that not only he is affected, but it is a common phenomenon in Kenya. His credo is that many doctors in Kenya all over the country work with athletes. Including the doctor, with whom he was dealing, is said to have looked after other world class athletes too. May also Olympic participants. The doctors can be seen in places where preferred athletes live, such as in the training camps in the highlands. His observations on this practice are, that this is not an isolated phenomenon, but is wide spread all over Kenya. The athletes are more or less the victim of a profit-driven medical profession, he says.

Do you think this likely?
Seppelt: I can not imagine that the coaches and managers, who come mainly from Europe by the way, know nothing about it. But he did not accuse them in this interview.

In the Kenyan Olympic team, there was no positive test. What significance does this have?
Seppelt: In these Olympic games was not a single positive in-competition test. All previous cases of doping at this Olympics are due to pre-Olympic tests, ie outside the direct control of Olympic competition. But that's nothing special. In the competition controls only the dumbest get caught, because the (doping) products are already out of the (body) system by then. Nonetheless, the credibility of the Kenyan athletics is shaken. Moreover, no one can longer claim that this "Laufwunder" à la East Africa can be explained only b/c of the highland, good food and the running culture. It also plays an important role. But you must realize that certain substances are also a part.

What type doping is it exactly?
Seppelt: In Kisorio´s case it is steroids. But he also speaks of seemingly EPO injections, ie, blood doping, and also of (doping) products that stimulate the mind.

How is the anti-doping campaign in Kenya organized?
Seppelt: Certainly not optimal. There is now a Kenyan Anti-Doping Agency. But they can test only on a minimal level due to lack of funds in the country. The biggest problem is that in Kenya there are no blood tests, b/c of logistical reasons they are not feasible. This is obviously distressing, especially b/c Kenyan runners are world class since many years in the middle and long distance races. They are sometimes tested when they are running in europe. But never in their own country.

August 6th, 2012.

Aftermath: In live coverage today at ARD, the commentaor said that the Mr. Kisorio is hiding now, b/c he fears revenge and harm.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Oct 16, 2010
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Cloxxki said:
Was this posted? http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/o...chwazer-des-dopings-ueberfuehrt-a-848579.html

50km walker, Olympic champ, EPO positive during training abroad.

Someone in anti-doping really did their work with that one. And one slippery dirty scumbag doper got really arrogant and thus sloppy, I suppose.

I'm really pleased, I must say, to see an athlete exposed who is both a non-eastern-european and a bigger fish.
I heard an american female judoka also got exposed today. no link yet, but good news.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Zam_Olyas said:
The belarussian woman shot putter really looks like a man.

this handsome is the olympic champion discus throwing with the ladies. I'm not ****ting you.

Yanfeng+Li+13th+IAAF+World+Athletics+Championships+gNdeNUFTb5ql.jpg
 
Jul 30, 2012
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I have seen enough strong looking ladies who have never gone near a sport to realise that looking masculine does not automatically mean doping.
 
May 26, 2009
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Zam_Olyas said:
The belarussian woman shot putter really looks like a man.

The problem here is that it seems clear that that sport is by definition a selection of more masculin women. I'm not saying they don't abuse testosterone, but I'm willing to bet their natural levels were pretty high to begin with. If yu're not the strongest girl around you ain't gonna be picked for this spot/won't pick the sport (depending on the country you are from).

Btw, the other competitors, be they Chinese or German didn't look that pretty either. It's a selection of really big women. Not my cup of tea, but that's hardly evidence (and I state I'm 100% certain they are doped to the gills). Like the lantern jaw, it's not a good thing to decide on "looks". Presence of testes is of course another matter *remembers a recent scandal, can anyone post that one in the cheater thread?*


hotrats said:
I have seen enough strong looking ladies who have never gone near a sport to realise that looking masculine does not automatically mean doping.

Exactly. And keep in mind that (subconsious) stereotyping also plays a role here. Stocky women with East-european/Western Asian faces simply are a far cry of our beauty ideals.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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Dalakhani said:
Because, really big guys tend to be slowed down by their size. (I'd go as far as saying they'd been under-represented in the 100m prior to Bolt.)

He seems to be able to combine both size and speed. And. by being unique in this, it's possible, IMO, to believe he could put up super fast times.

(Based on the notion that people getting far superior results must be doing something different - it could just be that his height is the "something different".)

It's at least conceivable... tall guys aren't supposed to be able to turn their legs over that quick, but his cadence is as high as anyone's.

I wonder how many tall guys capable of running like Bolt have been steered into distance running instead on the premise that they can't sprint?

jono
 
Sep 30, 2011
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hotrats said:
I have seen enough strong looking ladies who have never gone near a sport to realise that looking masculine does not automatically mean doping.

Which i didn't say, i just thought she looks like a man.
 
May 19, 2010
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sniper said:
this handsome is the olympic champion discus throwing with the ladies. I'm not ****ting you.

Yanfeng+Li+13th+IAAF+World+Athletics+Championships+gNdeNUFTb5ql.jpg

The name of the Olympic champion is Sandra Perković, and she is not from China, so I think you are ***ting us.
 
May 26, 2009
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jonovision_man said:
Chinese female weightlifter Zhou Lulu ... quite the case of acne on the zoomins as well.

Of course, weightlifting is a near certainty... but still.

1. She really is straining.
2. Most unflattering haircut possible.
3. I know plenty of women with Acne till their mid twenties.

She ain't my beauty ideal for sure, but this is a tangent which get's us nowhere and even has some really unwanted side effects (some racial markers are far from the beauty ideal).

I don't want to disrespect this woman, but take a look:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/un_photo/4134487072/

I could easily misstake her for a man.

Or these two women:

http://blogs.redcross.org.uk/international/2012/06/cash-grants-help-azerbaijan’s-displaced-families/

I find it morally wrong to start to judge women because they don't confirm to our beauty standards.
 
Feb 22, 2011
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The Olympics gave up it's amateur status years ago.

Hasn't the time come for it to open it's doors to all-comers? Just admit that doping is here to stay. You wouldn't get clean competition, of course, but you could sweep away the hypocrisy in an instant.

Just a thought, but is doping really worse than subjecting 11 year-olds to a psychologically crippling training programme that gets them into the pool four years down the line ready to win your country a medal?
 

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