Official thread: Should descents be a factor in GC/ are Tour's descents too dangerous

[Libertine Seguros]

Also I haven't watched that stage but people like Menchov and Sastre finished pretty high up so it can't be that bad.

David Arroyo took 3 seconds out of Juan Mauricio Soler and Ivan Basso on the descent. It isn't that bad at all.

(I think Arroyo took a bit more but was caught on the flatter part into Pinerolo, but my memory might be playing tricks on me).

 

[WonderLance]

The should have gone through the fields, like real men.

 

[red_flanders]

David Arroyo took 3 seconds out of Juan Mauricio Soler and Ivan Basso on the descent. It isn't that bad at all.

(I think Arroyo took a bit more but was caught on the flatter part into Pinerolo, but my memory might be playing tricks on me).

I watched the video, it looks fun. I hope they've cleaned the mud & crapola off the surface, 'cause that is a joke, but nothing about that descent would bother me. The race should be completely broken up at that point, you'll be in groups of 2, 3 or solo.

 

[ergmonkey]

Simple fact: it's impossible for a stage to include multiple mountain passes without also including descents.

Safety should be considered and certain roads avoided. But, high-speed mountain descending is clearly necessary.

 

[roundabout]

David Arroyo took 3 seconds out of Juan Mauricio Soler and Ivan Basso on the descent. It isn't that bad at all.

(I think Arroyo took a bit more but was caught on the flatter part into Pinerolo, but my memory might be playing tricks on me).

Thinking more about it might have been a slightly different course that year with a(nother) small climb just before the finish?

 

[Dead Star]

As this is clearly the Descent Appreciation thread, what's everyone's favourite? If we're talking TDF, the top of the Aubisque's pretty spectacular for scenery

Of all the GTs, Passo del Vivione for me. Remember watching it live during the 2004 Giro and being completely in awe. Insanely narrow and technical, a few spills going down, but they flew down it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT-VWdtyYTs

 

[Special_oz_ed]

Boo Hoo Schleckos

Some descents look and are incredibly dangerous. But I don't think yesterday's stage was one of those.

Descending is part of the required skill set of any professional cyclist, and especially for GC guys.

It seems Andy is sore because he lost time. Time for him to stop thinking the Tour should be designed around his skills, and the yellow jersey handed to him on a silver platter.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Thinking more about it might have been a slightly different course that year with a(nother) small climb just before the finish?

2009 Giro:

2011 Tour:

Does indeed look like the Giro has the tiniest of uphills in or just outside Pinerolo itself, but the descent from Pra Martino is the same.

 

[Dalakhani]

Simple fact: it's impossible for a stage to include multiple mountain passes without also including descents.

They could have connecting buses that take riders down from the summits to the bottom. Then they start racing again.

Maybe that's what Schleck had in mind?

Apparently he's also said that individual Time Trials are too dangerous and shouldn't be allowed on the Tour. And sprints. And windy days that could split a flat stage.

All of these things are too dangerous. Only climbing is safe... and, even then, only when you're being supervised by an older member of your family.

Oh, and if your chain slips, you should get a do-over.

Steve

 

[lejarreta]

In 2003, 14th July, Beloki fell descending to Gap. Today he has been interviewed by Cadena Ser. He never complains about security, although his carreer never recovered from this accident. I have tried unsuccessfully to get the link for this interview. But this is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr89ku-K2WU
Andy, mind your mouth.

 

[laura.weislo]

You reminded me of Frank's crash in the 2008 TdS (Can't believe it was that long ago! Time flies)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5d94P6JGo

Frank was very lucky, but he just got on with it.

Good example - there have been plenty of interviews with the likes of Savoldelli, etc. where good descenders acknowledge the dangers and the fact that they have families back home but have to put those thoughts out of their mind to go fast. There could be something that's not allowing Andy to put the bad thoughts out of his mind: like the death of his teammate perhaps.

The majority of the crashes in the [Grand] Tour have been on flat, straight roads. However, the worst injuries have been on descents. There are real risks involved, but it takes a strong mind to push them away.

 

[VeloGirl]

One more point, descents are pretty important to guys who aren't GC like climbers and COUNT on making up time in the descents. It certainly helped Thor win a stage.

Descents also give the gruppetto a chance to make the time cut.

Had Andy's attacks lasted more than 10 meters, he wouldn't have had to rely on his descending skills. Or lack thereof.

 

[hrotha]

One more point, descents are pretty important to guys who aren't GC like climbers and COUNT on making up time in the descents. It certainly helped Thor win a stage.

Descents also give the gruppetto a chance to make the time cut.

Had Andy's attacks lasted more than 10 meters, he wouldn't have had to rely on his descending skills. Or lack thereof.

Good point. Actually when I was watching it live I didn't think Contador, Evans and Samu would stay away but I still thought it was good for them to be able to take it ever so slightly easier on the descent if they felt like it.

 

[Parrulo]

i hope to see the day were andy has to defend his lead over this guy on a 20k long technical descent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXIdGy1iM0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuGzA_o0HBc&feature=related

 

[Garry Allen]

Closed roads, resurfaced roads, a professional peloton, the guys whining should come and ride/race with the rest of us.

....

He needs to do the Paris-Roubaix with Wiggo and MTFU.

He needs to see Dr Chopper to be prescribed a big case of HTFU

 

[Anonymous]

One more point, descents are pretty important to guys who aren't GC like climbers and COUNT on making up time in the descents. It certainly helped Thor win a stage.

Descents also give the gruppetto a chance to make the time cut.

Had Andy's attacks lasted more than 10 meters, he wouldn't have had to rely on his descending skills. Or lack thereof.

And this is the thing, I certainly remember from my own experience without descents I would have been miles behind everyone as a young man.
I could never climb for toffee, but i did had that mad edge you need to be willing to go into blind corners (on open roads) at breakneck speed.

 

[montagna lunga]

I was taught that descents are the reward of the climb, but until I "really got it"...there were times when it was hair-raising to be sure...heated-up-front-tire-that-is-visibly-rolling-on-the-rim-type hair-raising.

Remember in that movie when Neo held up his hand and all the bullets just froze in the air? Up til that moment he was "doing"...and pretty well, even for a movie hero of sorts! But after that, he was....different...he just "was"...thats how it is with descending...and a true descender who is competent in the other disciplines and gets the right breaks will usually be the champion every time.

BUT....when children in their early 20's get paid stupid huge money to brave the cols, heck they haven't even learned to keep their yaps shut yet!

AS doesn't "get it" ... the others? Who knows. My money's strong for Evans.

 

[irideredthebike]

No they're not too dangerous...the skilled riders did just fine.
The two riders who dominated today's descent(Evans and Hesjedal) are both ex Mtn bikers.
Maybe those who can't descend well should train on a different kind of bike in the off season.

If I recall, Cadel even tweeted about doing some mountain biking earlier this year for the first time in many years.

 

[erader]

rodent boy has whined on ascents and now descents. if i were a supporter i'd be embarassed. what a candy-a**.

erader

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Andy schlecks comments were idiotic.
Like pointed out, there is more to winning races then just climbing.
He failed by epic proportions yesterday.

he needs to HTFU.

 

[Cycloid]

I'm tired of hearing excuses and whinges by professional cyclists when things don't work out for them. True champions, and those with true grit and character, take it on the chin and get on with it the best they can.

Everyone has the same course to ride in a given stage. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. If your skills or tactics aren't up to scratch on that stage, cest le vie. Deal with it or improve it, but don't whinge about it. It isn't as if the stages are drawn at random the day before or you had very different conditions to the others.

 

[thehog]

Andy schlecks comments were idiotic.
Like pointed out, there is more to winning races then just climbing.
He failed by epic proportions yesterday.

he needs to HTFU.

Nothing wrong with being a little scared on decents but by god don't admit it.

Andy has just told the entire peloton if you want to beat me attack here - x marks the spot.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Nothing wrong with being a little scared on decents but by god don't admit it.

Andy has just told the entire peloton if you want to beat me attack here - x marks the spot.

I have no problem with a little fear, but blaming the parcours and saying they shouldn't have a finish like this is a joke.

 

[R.0.t.O]

Nothing wrong with being a little scared on decents but by god don't admit it.

Andy has just told the entire peloton if you want to beat me attack here - x marks the spot.

+1
What an idiot. There are always excuses you can make for losing time, just say you had a slow puncture on your tub and had to back off, something like that, something that tells everyone you're not going to let it happen again. If you just come out and say you were scared, that's just an invitation for them to hit you in the same way again tomorrow.

 

[warmfuzzies]

Congrats to Contador for taking some risks and animating a boring day. Good on Evans for following. For Andy, it's time to nut up or shut up.