Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[jmdirt]

A the risk of dragging WvA's thread even further out:

I love watching these young beasts inflict their race on the platoon, but I also love it when an unexpected (young or old) *guy wins because of hard racing. On one hand its great to see the favorites do what we expect, but on the other hand its great to see someone blow the expectation up.

*I would use 'gal' if we were talking about a female racer because I feel the same about racing no matter the gender.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Lol, WVA is not even close to prime Boonen and prime Cancellara. Some folks only start to see cycling in the last 3 years. If someone wants to see prime Cancellara, just see E3 Harelbeke 2011

Exactly right my friend.

WVA is a physiological anomaly that is one of the best of all time. But he is not quite as good a racer as Boonen or Cancellara

Put them in their prime on Zwift and I'm sure Wout would win. But cycling is not zwift

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Stuff like this is a little exasperating to read. Do you really believe that if Van Aert would be plopped down into the peloton 12 years ago he would be infinitely inferior to Boonen and Cancellara?

Yes

 

[Valv.Piti]

So one rider participating in a monument can determine if a season is legendary or not?

No, thats obviously not what I meant. I was speaking about Wout's season, and not riding Flanders and undoubtedly getting weaker for the next 2 weeks will strip him the opportunity to produce a legendary season (most likely) after winning the two hardest cobbled classics so far. And I like extremely dominating riders that we will look back at in 10-20 years time, maybe even more, and say "I remember following that season, he was extraordinary and almost impossible to beat". Gilbert's season in 2011 had that kinda aura and is something that we still talk about on this forum today, even though there probably have been produced some better seasons afterwards (well, look no further than last year and Pogacar). That why it was all the more depressive to me as an Valverde-fan that he crashed in Düsseldorf - not only am I a huge fan, but Valverde has never been better than he was that particular year and could have had a magical season and without a doubt a season we would look back it.

Thats why I follow cycling, and thats partly why I dislike riders like Hayman (even though it was a great race), Ciolek, Johan Tschopp etc. winning monuments. You can probably list lots of victories like these in monuments and its always a letdown for me. I dont like that, I want the best riders to win the biggest races and go mano-a-mano with his big rivals - think Contador/Schleck 2010, Contador/Froome 2014, Pogacar/Roglic 2020, GVA/Sagan 2017, Cancellara and Boonen and VDP and Wout.

Thats also one of the reasons I couldn't be bothered following some whacky breakaway with no-names in GTs contesting wins and why I rarely care that much outside the bigger/biggest races that at least dont have some A-tier riders. Im not really a cycling fanatic in that sense - I dont care for women's cycling, I don't care for cross, not for MTB, and not for the track either. No because thats bad racing, it just doesnt interest me and I have no real motivation or desire to get into it at all. My focus is pretty narrow when it comes to cycling, but I can look forward to these big races for months and months and follow the big contestant meticulously in their warmup races to see where they are at before Flanders for example, which is my favourite race.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I feel that skipping Tour of Flanders will likely help in regards to winning Paris-Roubaix.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I mantain my opinion, WVA is not even close to prime Cancellara and Boonen in the cobbled classics. I really think people forgets why boonen has the best palmares of all times in cobbled classics. The dude in his prime years was a beast. Hard to be dropped and murdered his rivals on reduced sprints. There two skills that WVA doesn't have compared to boonen: the first one is Boonen never lost his sprint after a long and hard race. Second one is there is no one capable of cruising in the cobbles like boonen.
Now, let's talk about Cancellara. There isn't a single guy close to have his engine. In his prime, when he get away, it was like seeing evenepoel in his youth races, putting minutes on his rivals.

 

[RedheadDane]

I feel that skipping Tour of Flanders will likely help in regards to winning Paris-Roubaix.

I suppose that would depend on how sick he is/gets, and how soon he'll be able to train again.
But he is lucky AGR and PR got swapped.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

I feel that skipping Tour of Flanders will likely help in regards to winning Paris-Roubaix.

Only if he’s mildy affected, and so far this season riders coming back from being sick haven’t done the best.

 

[tobydawq]

No, thats obviously not what I meant. I was speaking about Wout's season, and not riding Flanders and undoubtedly getting weaker for the next 2 weeks will strip him the opportunity to produce a legendary season (most likely) after winning the two hardest cobbled classics so far. And I like extremely dominating riders that we will look back at in 10-20 years time, maybe even more, and say "I remember following that season, he was extraordinary and almost impossible to beat". Gilbert's season in 2011 had that kinda aura and is something that we still talk about on this forum today, even though there probably have been produced some better seasons afterwards (well, look no further than last year and Pogacar). That why it was all the more depressive to me as an Valverde-fan that he crashed in Düsseldorf - not only am I a huge fan, but Valverde has never been better than he was that particular year and could have had a magical season and without a doubt a season we would look back it.

Thats why I follow cycling, and thats partly why I dislike riders like Hayman (even though it was a great race), Ciolek, Johan Tschopp etc. winning monuments. You can probably list lots of victories like these in monuments and its always a letdown for me. I dont like that, I want the best riders to win the biggest races and go mano-a-mano with his big rivals - think Contador/Schleck 2010, Contador/Froome 2014, Pogacar/Roglic 2020, GVA/Sagan 2017, Cancellara and Boonen and VDP and Wout.

Thats also one of the reasons I couldn't be bothered following some whacky breakaway with no-names in GTs contesting wins and why I rarely care that much outside the bigger/biggest races that at least dont have some A-tier riders. Im not really a cycling fanatic in that sense - I dont care for women's cycling, I don't care for cross, not for MTB, and not for the track either. No because thats bad racing, it just doesnt interest me and I have no real motivation or desire to get into it at all. My focus is pretty narrow when it comes to cycling, but I can look forward to these big races for months and months and follow the big contestant meticulously in their warmup races to see where they are at before Flanders for example, which is my favourite race.

I agree with much of this but I must have slept through the monument that Johann Tschopp won

You might have confused him with Oliver Zaugg.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think that goes to show how little attention I actually pay when a rider of his calibre wins a big race. It proved one of my points! It might as well have been Johann Tschopp, it wouldn't change anything to me.

Anyways, its a completely different ballgame when a up-and-coming and extremely interesting rider like Girmay 'suddenly' wins G-W. That has extreme promise, even though he obviously isn't a 'big name' (or was in his case, he pretty much is now). Victories like that are just as good or even better as long as they are followed up which I have no doubt they will.

 

[AlfaLum]

No, thats obviously not what I meant. I was speaking about Wout's season, and not riding Flanders and undoubtedly getting weaker for the next 2 weeks will strip him the opportunity to produce a legendary season (most likely) after winning the two hardest cobbled classics so far. And I like extremely dominating riders that we will look back at in 10-20 years time, maybe even more, and say "I remember following that season, he was extraordinary and almost impossible to beat". Gilbert's season in 2011 had that kinda aura and is something that we still talk about on this forum today, even though there probably have been produced some better seasons afterwards (well, look no further than last year and Pogacar). That why it was all the more depressive to me as an Valverde-fan that he crashed in Düsseldorf - not only am I a huge fan, but Valverde has never been better than he was that particular year and could have had a magical season and without a doubt a season we would look back it.

Thats why I follow cycling, and thats partly why I dislike riders like Hayman (even though it was a great race), Ciolek, Johan Tschopp etc. winning monuments. You can probably list lots of victories like these in monuments and its always a letdown for me. I dont like that, I want the best riders to win the biggest races and go mano-a-mano with his big rivals - think Contador/Schleck 2010, Contador/Froome 2014, Pogacar/Roglic 2020, GVA/Sagan 2017, Cancellara and Boonen and VDP and Wout.

Thats also one of the reasons I couldn't be bothered following some whacky breakaway with no-names in GTs contesting wins and why I rarely care that much outside the bigger/biggest races that at least dont have some A-tier riders. Im not really a cycling fanatic in that sense - I dont care for women's cycling, I don't care for cross, not for MTB, and not for the track either. No because thats bad racing, it just doesnt interest me and I have no real motivation or desire to get into it at all. My focus is pretty narrow when it comes to cycling, but I can look forward to these big races for months and months and follow the big contestant meticulously in their warmup races to see where they are at before Flanders for example, which is my favourite race.

Ah Thanks! I misunderstood your post and thought you were talking about the cycling season in general!

I can see why you enjoy the real rivalries in a sport. So it that sense I understand your disappointment with having few Mano a manos between Wout and Mathieu in the classics this season.

 

[Panda Claws]

I think that goes to show how little attention I actually pay when a rider of his calibre wins a big race. It proved one of my points! It might as well have been Johann Tschopp, it wouldn't change anything to me.

Anyways, its a completely different ballgame when a up-and-coming and extremely interesting rider like Girmay 'suddenly' wins G-W. That has extreme promise, even though he obviously isn't a 'big name' (or was in his case, he pretty much is now). Victories like that are just as good as long as they are followed up which I have no doubt they will.

Yeah it really sucked that Edvald Boasson Hagen couldn't follow up on it.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I mantain my opinion, WVA is not even close to prime Cancellara and Boonen in the cobbled classics. I really think people forgets why boonen has the best palmares of all times in cobbled classics. The dude in his prime years was a beast. Hard to be dropped and murdered his rivals on reduced sprints. There two skills that WVA doesn't have compared to boonen: the first one is Boonen never lost his sprint after a long and hard race. Second one is there is no one capable of cruising in the cobbles like boonen.
Now, let's talk about Cancellara. There isn't a single guy close to have his engine. In his prime, when he get away, it was like seeing evenepoel in his youth races, putting minutes on his rivals.

I'm no Van Aert fan but he still has a fair bit left in his career, so it's a bit early to judge even though he has a way to go to match their palmares.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Another aspect:

The moment when Wout got Covid now is possibly the worst possible. He probably won‘t ride/win Lombardia. Four of the five monuments are in March/April. Flanders and Roubaix are the monuments he can win, and hasn‘t, yet.

His victories in Omloop and E3 were good. He is expected to win monuments, however.

I‘m glad he already won San Remo. Flanders and Roubaix, he can still win, later. RVV and PR are less a lottery. Wout will be able to win them in the future, by brutal strength.

 

[SafeBet]

I mantain my opinion, WVA is not even close to prime Cancellara and Boonen in the cobbled classics. I really think people forgets why boonen has the best palmares of all times in cobbled classics. The dude in his prime years was a beast. Hard to be dropped and murdered his rivals on reduced sprints. There two skills that WVA doesn't have compared to boonen: the first one is Boonen never lost his sprint after a long and hard race.

Boonen lost at least one sprint after a long and hard race. Possibly the most important of his life.

That said, I agree with you on most things. There's sometimes a tendency to undersell riders of the past (generally associated with an underestimation of the field they were competing against).
I don't think anyone has sufficient evidence to prove Van Aert (or any contemporary classic rider for that matter) has a better physiological ability / raw talent / whatever parameter than Boonen or Cancellara.

So what we're left with is palmares. And Van Aert is not even in the same conversation. Of course he has long career ahead of him, likely with a number of big wins in store, but I'd wait to see him actually win those races before making any significant claim on how he compares to two of the best one day racers in history. Because that's what we're talking about.

 

[Red Rick]

Boonen lost at least one sprint after a long and hard race. Possibly the most important of his life.

That said, I agree with you on most things. There's sometimes a tendency to undersell riders of the past (generally associated with an underestimation of the field they were competing against).
I don't think anyone has sufficient evidence to prove Van Aert (or any contemporary classic rider for that matter) has a better physiological ability / raw talent / whatever parameter than Boonen or Cancellara.

So what we're left with is palmares. And Van Aert is not even in the same conversation. Of course he has long career ahead of him, likely with a number of big wins in store, but I'd wait to see him actually win those races before making any significant claim on how he compares to two of the best one day racers in history. Because that's what we're talking about.

Van Aert has the capacity to win all 5 monuments as well as compete on practically any WC route. I don't know how that's not physiological talent, unless we somehow ascribe some mythical components monuments in comparison to the lesser races. Sure endurance is a thing, and I think Van Aert underperformed last year, but I'm pretty convinced he just mistimed his peaks.

I also think that Boonen did very little outside the cobbles, despite his world title, and Cancellara massively underperformed at the WCRRs.

 

[tobydawq]

Boonen lost at least one sprint after a long and hard race. Possibly the most important of his life.

That said, I agree with you on most things. There's sometimes a tendency to undersell riders of the past (generally associated with an underestimation of the field they were competing against).
I don't think anyone has sufficient evidence to prove Van Aert (or any contemporary classic rider for that matter) has a better physiological ability / raw talent / whatever parameter than Boonen or Cancellara.

So what we're left with is palmares. And Van Aert is not even in the same conversation. Of course he has long career ahead of him, likely with a number of big wins in store, but I'd wait to see him actually win those races before making any significant claim on how he compares to two of the best one day racers in history. Because that's what we're talking about.

There really is also a massive tendency to undersell current riders because people like their childhood heroes more.

 

[Netserk]

Van Aert has the capacity to win all 5 monuments as well as compete on practically any WC route. I don't know how that's not physiological talent, unless we somehow ascribe some mythical components monuments in comparison to the lesser races. Sure endurance is a thing, and I think Van Aert underperformed last year, but I'm pretty convinced he just mistimed his peaks.

I also think that Boonen did very little outside the cobbles, despite his world title, and Cancellara massively underperformed at the WCRRs.

Gilbert actually had the capacity to win all 5 monuments, but that is quite irrelevant in the discussion of cobbled classics. Gilbert didn't have a greater physiology for the cobbles than Boonen or Cancellara did.

I'm not sure what you think he should have prioritised outside of the cobbles, but Sanremo, GTs (in the period where he would participate in big bunch sprints), WC etc. seemed quite sensible.

 

[Blanco]

Van Aert has the capacity to win all 5 monuments as well as compete on practically any WC route. I don't know how that's not physiological talent, unless we somehow ascribe some mythical components monuments in comparison to the lesser races. Sure endurance is a thing, and I think Van Aert underperformed last year, but I'm pretty convinced he just mistimed his peaks.

I also think that Boonen did very little outside the cobbles, despite his world title, and Cancellara massively underperformed at the WCRRs.

Well, he should better start winning the big ones sometime soon, cause he's in serious deficit to those two.
There's a long way to Boonen and Cancellara, for now, he's in Kwiatkowski and Kristoff league.

 

[Blanco]

When have you seen Boonen drag his GC leader over the mountains?

That thought never even crossed his mind, Boonen was undisputed leader his entire career.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Van Aert has the capacity to win all 5 monuments as well as compete on practically any WC route. I don't know how that's not physiological talent, unless we somehow ascribe some mythical components monuments in comparison to the lesser races. Sure endurance is a thing, and I think Van Aert underperformed last year, but I'm pretty convinced he just mistimed his peaks.

I also think that Boonen did very little outside the cobbles, despite his world title, and Cancellara massively underperformed at the WCRRs.

I like WVA but what I know and see from him when he is the number one favourite is a massive loss against their opponents. Last year Roubaix, Flanders, WC road race. I know MVP will deliver when he is in a big race (close to win at least when he is in a decent shape), I don't have the same vibe with WVA. So how can I say he is close to Cancellara or Boonen on cobbled classics? Those two are legends. WVA is not but he still has 5 more years to build his palmares.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Boonen lost at least one sprint after a long and hard race. Possibly the most important of his life.

That said, I agree with you on most things. There's sometimes a tendency to undersell riders of the past (generally associated with an underestimation of the field they were competing against).
I don't think anyone has sufficient evidence to prove Van Aert (or any contemporary classic rider for that matter) has a better physiological ability / raw talent / whatever parameter than Boonen or Cancellara.

So what we're left with is palmares. And Van Aert is not even in the same conversation. Of course he has long career ahead of him, likely with a number of big wins in store, but I'd wait to see him actually win those races before making any significant claim on how he compares to two of the best one day racers in history. Because that's what we're talking about.

I knew someone would mentioned 2016 roubaix. We all know that's not prime Boonen.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Well, he should better start winning the big ones sometime soon, cause he's in serious deficit to those two.
There's a long way to Boonen and Cancellara, for now, he's in Kwiatkowski and Kristoff league.

Hell no he isnt, Kristoff is downright a joke compared to Wout. Big wins matter, but come on now, we all have eyes.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I knew someone would mentioned 2016 roubaix. We all know that's not prime Boonen.

Weren’t people also saying Boonen would sit up when he was beat and fake a mechanical issue? Or was that Freire?
I know there was a couple posters before that’d bring that up about his sprinting.

 

[jmdirt]

Hell no he isnt, Kristoff is downright a joke compared to Wout. Big wins matter, but come on now, we all have eyes.

Not his thread, but Kristoff is not joke by any metrics.