- Feb 15, 2011
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Re:
Yeah, its crazy. The American fans/ "blogs" are all saying how amazing Lilly King is for taking down the big bad drug cheat by calling her out.
Lilly King is officially my least favorite swimmer (not that I follow swimming), she showed no class with her very public show. Efimova had one ban sure, but the second offense was over turned. I hope Efimova kicks her ass in the final.
mjreck said:
Yeah, its crazy. The American fans/ "blogs" are all saying how amazing Lilly King is for taking down the big bad drug cheat by calling her out.
Lilly King is officially my least favorite swimmer (not that I follow swimming), she showed no class with her very public show. Efimova had one ban sure, but the second offense was over turned. I hope Efimova kicks her ass in the final.
- May 26, 2009
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Wasn't her first ban for taking some supplement where she didn't know the ingredients? And meldonium is still being investigated isn't it? About how long it can last in the body..
And also I see people talk about how she was meant to be banned by the IOC but CAS overturned it, and they are complaining about that. People have no idea about rules or how things work..
Efimova is probably a doper yeah, but calling her out on something you don't seem to understand doesn't look great.
Also where's this 'tested positive five times' thing come from? As far as I can see she hasn't...
And also I see people talk about how she was meant to be banned by the IOC but CAS overturned it, and they are complaining about that. People have no idea about rules or how things work..
Efimova is probably a doper yeah, but calling her out on something you don't seem to understand doesn't look great.
Also where's this 'tested positive five times' thing come from? As far as I can see she hasn't...
- May 26, 2009
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Not saying anything like that.
People (this swimmer, general public) at it emotionally instead of looking at the rules and cases. WADA studied meldonium and said traces can last in the body for months last I heard, and then the IOC ban on previous dopers was unlawful, so why shouldn't Efimova be there?
In an ideal world athletes would be banned for life on first offence but that isn't the rule, so we look at what the rules actually are instead of crying about something in accordance to how we wish they would be.
People (this swimmer, general public) at it emotionally instead of looking at the rules and cases. WADA studied meldonium and said traces can last in the body for months last I heard, and then the IOC ban on previous dopers was unlawful, so why shouldn't Efimova be there?
In an ideal world athletes would be banned for life on first offence but that isn't the rule, so we look at what the rules actually are instead of crying about something in accordance to how we wish they would be.
- May 26, 2009
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Bach is going to keep trying to overrule WADA Code
http://summergames.ap.org/article/ap-interview-bach-continue-push-olympic-doping-bans
http://summergames.ap.org/article/ap-interview-bach-continue-push-olympic-doping-bans
Re: Re:
I meant she made a kind of moral/ethical superiority show in the middle of competition against the pesky-cheating-foreign-doper (or at least that's how alot of American/western commenters seem to believe)but I see your point.
But that's what I thought, well we've actually all seen things like this before(or at least those with an interest in cycling), and nobody seems to think it odd either that the "clean" athlete had just set the fastest semi final time, before berating the "dirty" slower swimmer? C'mon, that is priceless!
Lance Armstrong:
“A guy like Simeoni, all he wants to do is to destroy cycling... and for me, that’s not correct. He’s the kind of rider who attacks the peloton and cycling in general.”
Lilly King:
“You wave your finger ‘No1’ and you’ve been caught drug cheating … I’m not a fan”
Now, I'm not claiming king is doping, but at the same time, after everything that has gone on in the build up to the Olympics, I don't see how we can just give any athlete the benefit of the doubt anymore, be they Russian, American or any nationality.
gooner said:
I meant she made a kind of moral/ethical superiority show in the middle of competition against the pesky-cheating-foreign-doper (or at least that's how alot of American/western commenters seem to believe)but I see your point.
But that's what I thought, well we've actually all seen things like this before(or at least those with an interest in cycling), and nobody seems to think it odd either that the "clean" athlete had just set the fastest semi final time, before berating the "dirty" slower swimmer? C'mon, that is priceless!
Lance Armstrong:
“A guy like Simeoni, all he wants to do is to destroy cycling... and for me, that’s not correct. He’s the kind of rider who attacks the peloton and cycling in general.”
Lilly King:
“You wave your finger ‘No1’ and you’ve been caught drug cheating … I’m not a fan”
Now, I'm not claiming king is doping, but at the same time, after everything that has gone on in the build up to the Olympics, I don't see how we can just give any athlete the benefit of the doubt anymore, be they Russian, American or any nationality.
- Aug 18, 2010
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I always love it when some here manage to talk themselves around to a position where the real villains are the athletes who criticise obvious dopers. It's genuinely one of the most entertaining things about this board.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re:
Spot on. I don't think I could have put it better myself. The rules are there. She was caught. She served her sentence and there is still an issue regarding Meldonium. Not that difficult, but King obviously doesn't know that.
My concern is the double standards. Of course, it's easy to label King a clean or dirty athlete, based on different things, but Efimova is very good, talented, showed great potential already as a junior (well, most Olympic and World medalists do) and she is still winning medals. She tested positive, and supposedly it's "state sponsored" yet a state sponsored doper, with massive talent and I am guessing hard work and training still being beaten by a clean athlete? It's like the Armstrong defenders back in the day, "Lance is clean, the other guys aren't." Yeah. Basso, Mayo, Ullrich, Hamilton, Landis, Heras, Mancebo, Valverde, Vinokurov, etc all caught doping, yet Armstrong managed to beat all of them clean. That's how I view King and any of these holier-than-thou athletes. But you just know that that's what the American media wants. Any lambasting of foreigners (especially a convicted doper, ESPECIALLY a Russian doper) is Mozart to their eyes and ears.
It would be magical if years down the road we found out that, among many, Phelps was doping to the gills. And btw, wasn't he suspended for drug use? Perhaps not a PED, but if it was deemed illegal, it was illegal....
luckyboy said:
Spot on. I don't think I could have put it better myself. The rules are there. She was caught. She served her sentence and there is still an issue regarding Meldonium. Not that difficult, but King obviously doesn't know that.
My concern is the double standards. Of course, it's easy to label King a clean or dirty athlete, based on different things, but Efimova is very good, talented, showed great potential already as a junior (well, most Olympic and World medalists do) and she is still winning medals. She tested positive, and supposedly it's "state sponsored" yet a state sponsored doper, with massive talent and I am guessing hard work and training still being beaten by a clean athlete? It's like the Armstrong defenders back in the day, "Lance is clean, the other guys aren't." Yeah. Basso, Mayo, Ullrich, Hamilton, Landis, Heras, Mancebo, Valverde, Vinokurov, etc all caught doping, yet Armstrong managed to beat all of them clean. That's how I view King and any of these holier-than-thou athletes. But you just know that that's what the American media wants. Any lambasting of foreigners (especially a convicted doper, ESPECIALLY a Russian doper) is Mozart to their eyes and ears.
It would be magical if years down the road we found out that, among many, Phelps was doping to the gills. And btw, wasn't he suspended for drug use? Perhaps not a PED, but if it was deemed illegal, it was illegal....
- Mar 25, 2013
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True. I can't fathom this either.
Just because it's the "rules", athletes should stay quiet even if they disagree with them. With her being allowed to swim, it should be welcomed that they disagree with it.
We may have rules with WADA, IOC and so forth, that doesn't mean they're right and that athletes have to accept them in these instances.
How anyone can take this as a just reason for wanting Efimova to win is beyond me.
Zinoviev Letter said:
True. I can't fathom this either.
Just because it's the "rules", athletes should stay quiet even if they disagree with them. With her being allowed to swim, it should be welcomed that they disagree with it.
We may have rules with WADA, IOC and so forth, that doesn't mean they're right and that athletes have to accept them in these instances.
How anyone can take this as a just reason for wanting Efimova to win is beyond me.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re: Re:
Was it ok for Ferrand-Prevot and others to call out Armiststead on her three missed tests and questioning whether she should compete at Rio?
gooner said:
Was it ok for Ferrand-Prevot and others to call out Armiststead on her three missed tests and questioning whether she should compete at Rio?
- Mar 13, 2015
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- Apr 16, 2009
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Today I decided to look for this thread after watching the size of those Australian women swimmers. Is it me or those girls look huge?
Come on. We have to make it look real. My wife was in shock. It kinds of pulls you out of reality!!
Come on. We have to make it look real. My wife was in shock. It kinds of pulls you out of reality!!
- Sep 16, 2010
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Re:
These athletes talking about other athletes who've been sanctioned for doping, they should just shut the *** up, nobody wants to hear any of that crap. I don't want them to say it. As a cycling fan, I don't want them to say, 'You know these *** cheats? I'm sick of them. They've ruined the sport. They're ruining my life. This is the price I'm paying for these ***, so I'm not going to have anything whatsoever to do with them'."Zinoviev Letter said:
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re: Re:
No kidding. Cry me a river. Efimova is actually coached by an American, Dave Salo. Salo is the head coach at USC Trojans, a massive program at a massively successful school in collegiate sport in the US. Coached Olympic medalists: Lezak, Beard, Piersol, among others.
fmk_RoI said:
No kidding. Cry me a river. Efimova is actually coached by an American, Dave Salo. Salo is the head coach at USC Trojans, a massive program at a massively successful school in collegiate sport in the US. Coached Olympic medalists: Lezak, Beard, Piersol, among others.
- May 26, 2009
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Re: Re:
I get that (also I don't care who wins btw).
Just think that calling out someone who took a wrong supplement (which looks a hell of a lot more plausible than most excuses having read about the case) isn't really the hill you want to die on.
WADA's studies already found that the meldonium is a non-issue as far as Efimova goes - https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2016-07/wada-issues-updated-stakeholder-guidance-regarding-meldonium
Outside of these then yes she could be doping, but I don't see that there's a lot of evidence to call her out on, apart from 'She is Russian' and 'She is fast'. This is more nuanced than just a case of someone being an evil doper.
- btw my position on the Russian team's presence was the same as the mooted compromise some talked about - all Russians banned unless they have proof of being outside 'the system' and have testing history from a foreign agency (i.e. not RUSADA).
Coincidentally Efimova doesn't live in Russia.
gooner said:
I get that (also I don't care who wins btw).
Just think that calling out someone who took a wrong supplement (which looks a hell of a lot more plausible than most excuses having read about the case) isn't really the hill you want to die on.
WADA's studies already found that the meldonium is a non-issue as far as Efimova goes - https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2016-07/wada-issues-updated-stakeholder-guidance-regarding-meldonium
Outside of these then yes she could be doping, but I don't see that there's a lot of evidence to call her out on, apart from 'She is Russian' and 'She is fast'. This is more nuanced than just a case of someone being an evil doper.
- btw my position on the Russian team's presence was the same as the mooted compromise some talked about - all Russians banned unless they have proof of being outside 'the system' and have testing history from a foreign agency (i.e. not RUSADA).
Coincidentally Efimova doesn't live in Russia.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Re: Re:
Alright I am confused, lol. I was commenting on you saying how 'tired' you were of seeing the 'holier-than-thou' athletes criticize athletes that have served suspensions due to doping. Which I agreed. But now it may seem that you were actually in agreement with the other two posters who suggested that we should actually be agreeing with athletes that lambast these dopers, not the dopers themselves. So it's a double sarcasm. An inceptiocasm.
fmk_RoI said:
Alright I am confused, lol. I was commenting on you saying how 'tired' you were of seeing the 'holier-than-thou' athletes criticize athletes that have served suspensions due to doping. Which I agreed. But now it may seem that you were actually in agreement with the other two posters who suggested that we should actually be agreeing with athletes that lambast these dopers, not the dopers themselves. So it's a double sarcasm. An inceptiocasm.
Wow! Serious much guys???
If an athlete feels like another athlete shouldn't be competing is that not allowed? Especially if they have been sanctioned...in some cases multiple times?? Athletes like us are entitled to an opinion.
There are a lot of cases where athletes train in other countries under coaches that produce record breaking, olympic gold winning athletes. I pointed this out about the Chinese, who some have been trained by a coach called Denis Cotterell on the Gold Coast here in Australia...he has also trained/coached a number of Australian winners.
Do I think it is hypocritical to call these people out when in Australia our AIS was based on the same state run institutes of Germany etc, yes I do.
What I find amusing is that the press perpetuate the myth....and the olympic dream...
If CAS overturn something, it doesn't mean you have to agree either, it is their interpretation of the rules...
Oh and Australia has won another Gold Medal...woohoo...go the rugby girls...
If an athlete feels like another athlete shouldn't be competing is that not allowed? Especially if they have been sanctioned...in some cases multiple times?? Athletes like us are entitled to an opinion.
There are a lot of cases where athletes train in other countries under coaches that produce record breaking, olympic gold winning athletes. I pointed this out about the Chinese, who some have been trained by a coach called Denis Cotterell on the Gold Coast here in Australia...he has also trained/coached a number of Australian winners.
Do I think it is hypocritical to call these people out when in Australia our AIS was based on the same state run institutes of Germany etc, yes I do.
What I find amusing is that the press perpetuate the myth....and the olympic dream...
If CAS overturn something, it doesn't mean you have to agree either, it is their interpretation of the rules...
Oh and Australia has won another Gold Medal...woohoo...go the rugby girls...
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