mustachestaff said:
Way too much being made of that comment. He certainly didn't throw anyone under the bus.
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Way too much being made of that comment. He certainly didn't throw anyone under the bus.
craig1985 said:
It didn't get to that stage because JV is smart enough to know he cannot let it get there. If he hadn't agreed and let Sky have Wiggins, I think a lot of people could easily have envisioned Wiggins being a tool during races just to spite JV and team management.
Yeah Sonny Bill was bad. But, look at the crew he was hanging with. Early 20's getting advice from Koder Nasser and Anthony Mundine. Dumb. Didn't see the Bulldogs complaining last season, they did really well without the dead weight. Liked the soccer bit though. Wiggins never chucked an Ashley Cole, or behaved like Sol Campbell, primarily because he never talked to JV and because JV didn't call the bluff. JV has said he talked to Brad in August then next at Christmas. At least the cases you referred to were brave enough and arrogant enough to let everyone know their feelings. Wiggins knew full well he was turning on Garmin and didn't have the nads to man up and lay his cards out truthfully, regardless of how bad it may have looked. As for the bluff, smart move not to call it. Would have caused havoc for Garmin in 2010. They're better off without him.
I'm talking about Michael Essien who went from Lyon to Chelsea, and Mahamadou Diarra, who also went from Lyon to Real Madrid, but telling the team 'either sell me to the club I want to go or I'm going back to my own country and I'm going to stay there'.
All this Wiggins bashing reminds me of the Evans bashing we had a while ago. I wonder who'll be next......
Last year I thought he was overrated, and had been reading way too much of his own press, then I saw him at the Herald-Sun Tour and he seemed like a decent guy. I changed my mind again when I saw him in his mod look. Seriously, the Brits have given the world a lot of great things, but geez, that look really accounts for the "you lose some" part of the expression. Then he handled his transfer really badly. I don't blame him for taking the cash (but he should've been a bit more honest in his dealings), Garmin benefit from the payout (just gotta wait 12 months to spend it on Bertie), and ultimately Sky will be the loser (having blown fist full of euros when they could've got someone good) when Brad fails this year. So everyone gets what they deserve (cept Brad he's getting way more, one good ride shouldn't have that much of a pay off).
Last year I thought he was overrated, and had been reading way too much of his own press, then I saw him at the Herald-Sun Tour and he seemed like a decent guy. I changed my mind again when I saw him in his mod look. Seriously, the Brits have given the world a lot of great things, but geez, that look really accounts for the "you lose some" part of the expression. Then he handled his transfer really badly. I don't blame him for taking the cash (but he should've been a bit more honest in his dealings), Garmin benefit from the payout (just gotta wait 12 months to spend it on Bertie), and ultimately Sky will be the loser (having blown fist full of euros when they could've got someone good) when Brad fails this year. So everyone gets what they deserve (cept Brad he's getting way more, one good ride shouldn't have that much of a pay off).
Galic Ho said:
Dim, how do people not get his sense humour? Is he always joking around and when should we take him seriously?
but why is this contract conflict, a problem in cycling, which makes it unique in commercial operations in every industry.
I hear a talking point of "employment law" I think it was Dr Jeff Jones on BikeRadar, invoking this. He was ex Cyclingnews editor.
Why does this UK employment law have any relevance, being, 1. he already had a contract, which should be under the auspices of treaties that acknowledge international contracts, and 2. it was on the continent that he plies his trade.
ok, on 2. UK and EU law, reciprocity.
But the international contract law should trump any employment law in the UK for this particular case. No matter if it was signed in Boulder, or he signed it in Girona. The contract is valid. I do not get why folks are invoking some Brailsford talking point on contract law, don't regurgitate soundbites and stop using your brains folks. This was a valid contract, and a commercial disagreement ensued, and a commercial resolution was found. The contract was terminated on agreement of both parties, and acrimony was the denouement.
Wiggins leveraged his power, and whining, to get out of the contract, at considerable cost to Sky or Brailsford/Sutton whomever owns the Sky equity.
Now, Wiggins is an idiot. IF he knew he was gonna break out big, why did not he have a clause in his contract, that Sky had to match any wage offers.
And why did Brailsford let him sign onto SKy, without such an option. Fricken idiots.
I hear a talking point of "employment law" I think it was Dr Jeff Jones on BikeRadar, invoking this. He was ex Cyclingnews editor.
Why does this UK employment law have any relevance, being, 1. he already had a contract, which should be under the auspices of treaties that acknowledge international contracts, and 2. it was on the continent that he plies his trade.
ok, on 2. UK and EU law, reciprocity.
But the international contract law should trump any employment law in the UK for this particular case. No matter if it was signed in Boulder, or he signed it in Girona. The contract is valid. I do not get why folks are invoking some Brailsford talking point on contract law, don't regurgitate soundbites and stop using your brains folks. This was a valid contract, and a commercial disagreement ensued, and a commercial resolution was found. The contract was terminated on agreement of both parties, and acrimony was the denouement.
Wiggins leveraged his power, and whining, to get out of the contract, at considerable cost to Sky or Brailsford/Sutton whomever owns the Sky equity.
Now, Wiggins is an idiot. IF he knew he was gonna break out big, why did not he have a clause in his contract, that Sky had to match any wage offers.
And why did Brailsford let him sign onto SKy, without such an option. Fricken idiots.
Well one can say Contador is an idiot for not having his brother insert a buy-out clause in his contract. Considering he had just won the Tour when he signed for Hog and Astana for 2008, he would of had a lot of bargaining power on his side.
Bertie wanted to get out of his contract, but he only stayed because he couldn't get out of it.
Bertie wanted to get out of his contract, but he only stayed because he couldn't get out of it.
craig1985 said:
It wasn't that simple with Contador. Yes he wanted to leave, but it was Bruyneel and Armstrong he wished to put distance from. Astana had the licensing issue as well. How had that appeared? Came about because the Kazakhs smelt a stench and wanted Bruyneel and Armstrong gone. So they withheld rider salary payments.
Astana never had a cashflow problem, the had a power struggle and withheld the mulla as to weed out the RadioShack option. Remember Lance saying they had an alternative in place if Astana didn't pay up and missed the Tour because of a UCI ban. That was the Shack. Notice Contador stayed. He is being paid handsomely.
Then after the Tour the UCI tried every trick in the book to stuff up the Kazakhs. Didn't work. Another ploy to mess with Contador? I think so. Shack loyalty at the UCI. Astana get their license and put together a mean offer for Contador. Note, they had their license renewed after the deadline rule change that allowed Contador to leave if the team hadn't obtained a permanent license. Contador still stayed put! Plus he gets almost everything he wanted, good domestiques, a great DS, new bike sponsor (arguably the best manufacturer in the market) and no more pains in the patella from sneaky *******s
Contador didn't need the buy out clause. The UCI changed the rules. He could have left, plus we know teams wanted him. Garmin, Quickstep and even Caisse.
As for Wiggins and Sky. Vaughters will keep letting them know their behaviour was despicable. The Brits will cop the flack and try and prove most posters here, and Garmin wrong. Good luck to them, they will need it.
So if Wiggins has a good year, will people give him credit for it, or will they still give him ****?
craig1985 said:
I asked the question before. What constitutes a good year for Wiggins and for Sky? A couple of stage wins? A week long event? Some top ten places in the classics? A stage or two at any GT. Or Wiggins replicating his Tour performance and maybe going one better? A combination of all these is what I'd consider a good year for Sky. As for Wiggins, he honestly needs to top 5 at le Tour to prove he hasn't been deluding himself and the public. Takes balls to come out and say you can do well, even more to pull it off.
Wiggins can ignore every other race and work for his teammates, but he has to deliver something concrete in France during July. I also feel to a degree that Sky can afford for him to fail, if, and only if, Gerrans and EBH grab some wins in other events. Both should do this as the past two seasons have shown. Those wins would mitigate all the media time Wiggins has been getting with the Sky name next to his in the event he can't top 5 in France. Sky would get some spoils for the season. Wiggins....well that won't be pretty. Don't go near his bike or him in such an occurrence.
Don't know if every one else agrees.
richwagmn said:
Maybe, but he has won more Olympic medals than any other UK athlete in any sport so it will be a long time before he is forgotten in the UK.
I think he should bluff on the Tour and go for the Giro if it continues to look like a lot of the GT big names are giving it a miss or be using it as training for the Tour.
Any GT win would be the first Brit to win a GT and would be huge.
He needs to go better than Millar to live up up to the hype, so needs to win either the Giro or Vuelta, or podium at TdF before he gets past it in terms fo GT ambition and goes back to super domestique/leadout.
Ordinarily I would think the Giro has too much climbing, but last year we saw a combination of powerful TTing and wheelsucking can win it when the field is limited.
So for Sky, in a 1-3 year timeframe minimum is a big Classics win for EBH and something big for Wiggins, they will pick up lots of wins in smaller races and lesser tours in any case. They also need to get feckups liks yesterdays out of their system and they need to bring future riders like Kennaugh and Thomas along nicely, ready for when Contador's starts to fade (long-term I know).
I also think they need to sign Nibali, first as a mountain super domestique for Wiggins, Sky can help improve his TTing then he becomes a proper GT contender as Wiggins starts to lose it.
Galic Ho said:
I don't think it's position at the tour that matters for him this upcoming year... it's time difference. To a certain extent I think placing gets too much focus. If Wiggins finishes 6th, but is only a minute out of 2nd, I think that says a lot... specifically it says if there were another long ITT like in most tours, he probably WOULD have gotten second. But if he finishes 4th, but 5 minutes out of 2nd and 4 minutes out of 3rd... it shows he's got no real chance of winning a tour.
its bit of a longshot to see him a winning the tour but you never know.. as mentioned Sky will get loads of publicity with him up with the leading group on the climbs and maybe he can grab a prologue win or short TT somewhere down the line - but i realise that will be difficult against Cancellara - he's a good signing though and somebody they can build a team round even though they forked out a lot of money.
Good solid sports entertainment to keep them all in the headlines. Especially crafty in the way JV got Tex involved too.
I'm not so sure there's been all this supposed skullduggery. JV is playing a very clever game, he knows the publicity that Sky are getting in the UK, so plugging into that is going to earn him a lot of kudos with Garmin, their brand is now also getting large amounts of PR in one of their biggest markets.
He's done well out of the 'deal' with Sky and he's now doing well out of the continuing publicity, nobody is losing out of this. DM is a friend of Wiggins, so he's playing along with the game too and Wiggins is playing back, continuing the media exposure. This all keeps sponsors in the sport, it what it's all about and always has been, they're all getting column inches and keeping their sponsors in the public eye.
Losing wiggins has done JV good, he's got some fantastic talent in Garmin, so the long shot of Wiggins getting a podium is probably not worth the bother when you've got guys like Bobridge coming through.
Who's actually lost out of this, I'd say nobody other than the general public who've lost money out of their wallets buying Garmins and Sky TV?
He's done well out of the 'deal' with Sky and he's now doing well out of the continuing publicity, nobody is losing out of this. DM is a friend of Wiggins, so he's playing along with the game too and Wiggins is playing back, continuing the media exposure. This all keeps sponsors in the sport, it what it's all about and always has been, they're all getting column inches and keeping their sponsors in the public eye.
Losing wiggins has done JV good, he's got some fantastic talent in Garmin, so the long shot of Wiggins getting a podium is probably not worth the bother when you've got guys like Bobridge coming through.
Who's actually lost out of this, I'd say nobody other than the general public who've lost money out of their wallets buying Garmins and Sky TV?
I would quit Garmin, because JV is gay, Garmins jerseys are homo, and star rider their sprinter I forgot his name is a quitter. Other than that if I was Wiggo I would ride for SKY out of patriotism. Oh yeah the sprinters name is faRRaR. Good thing Tom D. is there to save the day.
I somewhat believed in the validity of his new found climbing ability (the dude could TT before, so I gave him that) and was happy for the guy for getting 4th in the tour, but when he compared Garmin to a champions league team, lost a lot of respect for his character. You could argue that his comparison my be true, but still, it made him look like a a$s hat.
SaftyCyclist said:
So you think this is all a pro-wrestling style scripted fake drama storyline? I think we can agree that cycling is in trouble if that is in fact the case.
He's a Douche
Look at what he said next year. Ha talked about how happy he was on Garmin, How they were more like a family (which was also a dig at Columbia) and then he jumps ship for Sky while under contract. He is a hypocrite. I hope he gets his **** kicked. How can he sleep at night. He is a douche!!
Look at what he said next year. Ha talked about how happy he was on Garmin, How they were more like a family (which was also a dig at Columbia) and then he jumps ship for Sky while under contract. He is a hypocrite. I hope he gets his **** kicked. How can he sleep at night. He is a douche!!
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