Oscar Pistorius

[Cloxxki]

Hmmm, I'm not so sure. Wearing prosthetics and transferring the forces through the skin is no "walk in the park".

I'm of the opinion only (no evidence I'm afraid) that he may in fact be more limited in the volume of work he can do as a result of the issues faced in using prosthetics and the large forces that running would transmit via the stump's skin.

Alex,
thanks for your great input. I figured such, but lacked detailed knowledge obviously.
Perhaps in the future, amputees may get sockets hooked up to their remaining bones, for less skin-loaded protheses?

 

[Izzy eviel]

If it's a one-off then it's fine. If more athletes start emerging with missing limbs then something will need to be done.

It seems people are worried that other people will start hacking their limbs off to become athletes. - Quite frankly anyone who'll do that is in need of mental help. If people really want to do that, let them. I'd rather be a 40 year old 'failed' olympian then a gold winner who has fake legs.

 

[skippy]

Social inclusion seems to be overlooked by members of the “ mushroom farm “ whilst they take their best shot at a guy who has raised his head above the parapet !

Most of those commenting from that lofty height under the rock that they hide under fail to realise the courage needed to endure the road this guy has had to follow .

Another South African is a woman swimmer missing a foot who you would class as “ disfigured “ were you to open a thread on her efforts in competing in the Olympics some years back ! She also had the courage to show those with “ Disability “ that they were as good as “ Normal people “ and that they should aspire to be treated as “ Olympians “ and train in their sport with that target in mind .

Wounded Warriors Project and Help4Heroes are two groups of people that those reading the “ clinic “ would do well to support . Yesterday whilst riding I found “ inspiration “ in recalling an item I had read days before and it renewed my resolve to tackle seemingly trivial discomforts .

Should any of you find yourselves in Oscar’s position I hope you do not turn to jelly and give up on life but fight back and become an even better person than before the life changing incident !

Alex S. seems to be the only person in this thread that has contributed anything that “ Oscar “ or other “ Disabled Athletes “ would find of value .

With Paralympics in London within a year it is not too late for people to lend support and encouragement to those competing . Instead of pontificating in the clinic/forum try Googling your National PARALYMPIC T eam and discover an individual you can CHOOSE to help through the run up to their efforts on behalf of your nation .

Anyone that can point me to an Aussie Paralympian that has served in the Armed Forces and is aspiring to represent Oz in London please advise !

 

[boomcie]

Social inclusion seems to be overlooked by members of the “ mushroom farm “ whilst they take their best shot at a guy who has raised his head above the parapet !

Most of those commenting from that lofty height under the rock that they hide under fail to realise the courage needed to endure the road this guy has had to follow .

Another South African is a woman swimmer missing a foot who you would class as “ disfigured “ were you to open a thread on her efforts in competing in the Olympics some years back ! She also had the courage to show those with “ Disability “ that they were as good as “ Normal people “ and that they should aspire to be treated as “ Olympians “ and train in their sport with that target in mind .

Wounded Warriors Project and Help4Heroes are two groups of people that those reading the “ clinic “ would do well to support . Yesterday whilst riding I found “ inspiration “ in recalling an item I had read days before and it renewed my resolve to tackle seemingly trivial discomforts .

Should any of you find yourselves in Oscar’s position I hope you do not turn to jelly and give up on life but fight back and become an even better person than before the life changing incident !

Alex S. seems to be the only person in this thread that has contributed anything that “ Oscar “ or other “ Disabled Athletes “ would find of value .

With Paralympics in London within a year it is not too late for people to lend support and encouragement to those competing . Instead of pontificating in the clinic/forum try Googling your National PARALYMPIC T eam and discover an individual you can CHOOSE to help through the run up to their efforts on behalf of your nation .

Anyone that can point me to an Aussie Paralympian that has served in the Armed Forces and is aspiring to represent Oz in London please advise !

I have never discredited the Paralympic Movement (nor did anyone else for that matter). You make it sound like I disrespect these people, which is least of all true. I have tons of respect for them, because I realize that I wouldn't be able to overcome the challenges that they face daily.

I really don't get why society is so hung up on pitiful and irrational compensation.

You illustrate my point very well Skippy. Your plea is filled with reasoning that isn't rational to any extent. I get that in a social context these are all valid arguments, but sports at the highest level aren't a social happening (not the competition itself at least). These events need to be regulated meticulously for them to be feasible. If one can’t take professional sports seriously there’s no need for its existence.

If regulatory sports organs were to follow your mindset, that would turn the whole thing into a travesty (even more so than now). Those rules have to be rational and clearly defined. Ideally, there's no room for pity or loopholes in sports regulation.

So all pity aside, unless someone can irrefutably prove that Pistorius’ prostheses aren’t advantageous, I will object to his participation outside of Paralympic events.

Socially-mediated ethical concerns should never interfere with the ethics of fair competition.

 

[Animal]

Social inclusion seems to be overlooked by members of the “ mushroom farm “ whilst they take their best shot at a guy who has raised his head above the parapet !

Most of those commenting from that lofty height under the rock that they hide under fail to realise the courage needed to endure the road this guy has had to follow .

Another South African is a woman swimmer missing a foot who you would class as “ disfigured “ were you to open a thread on her efforts in competing in the Olympics some years back ! She also had the courage to show those with “ Disability “ that they were as good as “ Normal people “ and that they should aspire to be treated as “ Olympians “ and train in their sport with that target in mind .

Wounded Warriors Project and Help4Heroes are two groups of people that those reading the “ clinic “ would do well to support . Yesterday whilst riding I found “ inspiration “ in recalling an item I had read days before and it renewed my resolve to tackle seemingly trivial discomforts .

Should any of you find yourselves in Oscar’s position I hope you do not turn to jelly and give up on life but fight back and become an even better person than before the life changing incident !

Alex S. seems to be the only person in this thread that has contributed anything that “ Oscar “ or other “ Disabled Athletes “ would find of value .

With Paralympics in London within a year it is not too late for people to lend support and encouragement to those competing . Instead of pontificating in the clinic/forum try Googling your National PARALYMPIC T eam and discover an individual you can CHOOSE to help through the run up to their efforts on behalf of your nation .

Anyone that can point me to an Aussie Paralympian that has served in the Armed Forces and is aspiring to represent Oz in London please advise !

What a complete non-sequitur of a post! You are replying to imaginary interlocutors!

This dedicated athlete uses equipment to compete.

It's right that he should get an opportunity to fulfil his athletic ambitions on a level playing field: Against similarly equipped athletes.

But competing against athletes who's footwear is strictly regulated so as not to confer an advantage is ridiculous.

 

[Le breton]

Only one leg, 4 years ago after a cycling training accident. No running, I can't even imagine running, that would hurt.
..........

I am a little unique I suspect as I have years of power meter data from before and since my amputation. I have been able to equal or better my pre-amputation W/kg for durations of 4-minutes and longer. I have lost 200-250W off my sprint though, and that affects my shorter duration power bests.

Thanks for the input. Really impressive.

 

[ultimobici]

Not having lower legs at all, elimated over 90% of all injuries. Pistorius would be able to train harder without having to take it easy. Many runners at that level are close to overstraining their feet or lower legs. And it's not called an achilles for nothing, you know.

LOL!

It's called an Achilles because it was the only point on Achilles's body that was not protected by his mother dipping him in the River Styx. It is not because it's weak!

 

[Cloxxki]

LOL!

It's called an Achilles because it was the only point on Achilles's body that was not protected by his mother dipping him in the River Styx. It is not because it's weak!

Did I sound that stupid? Wow.
Most people know the name as it's used (most fragile body part, now applied to all of life), not the myth behind it. I studied ancient Greek once, BTW, and am more lazy than I am stupid. Next time I'll quote the full papyrus roll or tablet.

 

[mb2612]

Did I sound that stupid? Wow.
Most people know the name as it's used (most fragile body part, now applied to all of life), not the myth behind it. I studied ancient Greek once, BTW, and am more lazy than I am stupid. Next time I'll quote the full papyrus roll or tablet.

The Iliad was an Oral poem, so really you should upload a sound file in the original Greek

 

[ultimobici]

Did I sound that stupid? Wow.
Most people know the name as it's used (most fragile body part, now applied to all of life), not the myth behind it. I studied ancient Greek once, BTW, and am more lazy than I am stupid. Next time I'll quote the full papyrus roll or tablet.

Evidently you didn't pay attention in your classes.

More importantly, the idea that he can train harder because of reduced fatigue is flawed, IMO. While he doesn't have the limb, he does have the unnatural junction of the prosthesis against his stumps. Hardly advantageous?

 

[Cloxxki]

Evidently you didn't pay attention in your classes.

More importantly, the idea that he can train harder because of reduced fatigue is flawed, IMO. While he doesn't have the limb, he does have the unnatural junction of the prosthesis against his stumps. Hardly advantageous?

Might well even out. He does seem (or one would expect) to be the most adjusted athlete. You don't run that way with a randdomly picked blade that just roughly fits, and hurts like crab. If anything, he must have overcome many of the hurdles the protheses pose to his fellow amputees face daily.

If anyone knows for a fact how ancient Greek sounded, I'll try to do a video

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Another South African is a woman swimmer missing a foot who you would class as “ disfigured “ were you to open a thread on her efforts in competing in the Olympics some years back ! She also had the courage to show those with “ Disability “ that they were as good as “ Normal people “ and that they should aspire to be treated as “ Olympians “ and train in their sport with that target in mind .

Natalie Du Toit is/was phenomenal, however the analogy with Pistorius is not quite the same though.

In Du Toit's case, she had a lower leg amputated after an accident (in her case motor scooter accident). She was a national class swimmer before that (in fact I think the accident was on way home from a long pool training session). She got back to her swimming once she had "rehabbed" and was clearly very determined with the work ethic of a champion.

She competed "as is" without prosthetic aid and was good enough to be chosen on merit. For the analogy with Pistorius to be valid, Du Toit would've been using a prosthetic "flipper" of some kind to simulate the propulsive force lost due to the loss of the lower leg. However she didn't (can't anyway as it's not permitted) and still managed to compete at the highest levels of the sport.

I've tried swimming only a couple of time since the amputation. It sucks. Du Toit must be incredibly powerful in the upper body cause I lost a lot of water speed. Swimming wasn't my passion though, racing bikes is.

Anyone that can point me to an Aussie Paralympian that has served in the Armed Forces and is aspiring to represent Oz in London please advise !

Contact the Australian Paralympic Committee?

 

[oldcrank]

There is no need to worry about him or others running the 800
or longer distances, because it seems the IAAF allowed him
to run on the SAF 4x400 team but only if he ran first and
they ran in lane one.

That would lead me to believe they don't want him, or other
similarly equipped athletes, running in a pack.

 

[Paco_P]

Firstly, you pulled that number out of your ***. You can't possibly know how fast Pistorius would be on his own legs. Secondly, imo it's seld-evidently absurd to think a pair of carbon sticks work better for running than the human leg with all its joints and muscles and sinews and stuff that is the pinnacle of millions of years of development and complaining about that just sounds like sour grapes to me. And thirdly, it's not like he's using those artificial "legs" voluntarily. Call me again when Michael Johnson cuts off his legs and makes a comeback on prostheses.

Your statement suggests a misconception about evolution. The evolutionary mechanism in no way selects for the optimal or the best - "survival of the fittest" is a misleading and basically incorrect slogan - it would be better to say simply "survival of the fit". Just as evolution has not led to humans that can fly, though it has led to humans that can build airplanes, it has not led to humans that can run as fast by themselves as they can with the aid of the some of the things they can design.

What you call "self-evidently absurd" seems to me rather almost to be expected. What is "self-evidently absurd" is the notion that a guy can compete running on well tuned springs against folks who have no such mechanical aid.

Your argument would justify letting wheelchair racers enter the usual 10K races - they would always win by the way - although it is "self-evidently absurd" to think a pair of wheels works better for running than the human leg ... Instead they have their own races, against competitors similarly enabled.

That Pistorius cannot run without prosthetic legs is not a sound argument that he should be allowed to compete on them against those who run on their natural legs. There is no remedy for some things.

 

[gregod]

There is no need to worry about him or others running the 800
or longer distances, because it seems the IAAF allowed him
to run on the SAF 4x400 team but only if he ran first and
they ran in lane one.

That would lead me to believe they don't want him, or other
similarly equipped athletes, running in a pack.

thanks for the info. i kind of expected this. link?

 

[neineinei]

thanks for the info. i kind of expected this. link?

"Pistorius was told last week by world governing body the IAAF that he must run the opening leg of the relay - the only one where athletes are kept in lanes - because of safety worries."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/14759376.stm

 

[boomcie]

"Pistorius was told last week by world governing body the IAAF that he must run the opening leg of the relay - the only one where athletes are kept in lanes - because of safety worries."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/14759376.stm

Yeah, I guess they call him "the blade runner" for good reason.
If he runs a little recklessly, he might actually make it a "level playing field" by accident.

Oh, the horror.

 

[Magnus]

It seems some people in this thread believe Pistorius is only able to compete because of his blades and not because he's a talented athlete (what ever that means). If this was true then why is he the only 'bladerunner' outside paralympics?

I haven't been able to find much info t44 400m competitions(like world record progression) but it seems Pistorius is considerably faster than his opposition.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

It was just announced that he was not selected for the relay.

Susan

 

[Cloxxki]

Even with a short starting lane, Pistorius would set a pretty epic flying 400m time. Good also for that reason to only allow him the start.

 

[Bavarianrider]

One of the biggest frauds in sports history that he was allowed to start

 

[Cloxxki]

If they have to make special lane and starting order arrangements, you know something is up. If you can't trust a guy to share a lane with another WC level athlete, what's the former doing at the WC anyway?

Pistorius may never be equaled by anyone with his level of handicap. He's alone in his game. That doesn't mean the other game of his choice is obliged to let him in. Even if it seems fair to let the guy compete against the best, seeing his times are close, sports never was meant to be fair to individuals.

If there is fraud in letting Pistorius in, then I wonder who and why made it happen. Just fear of a "they're picking on the no-legged man" type of outcries? Well, boohoo, when did that ever really impact a global sports union 's decisions towards an individual?
And no, let's not use THAT example. There it just was pure and honest dirty money.

 

[skippy]

Today i was at a cycling event in Schwaz , Tirol where there were sections of the racing to include all ! Men , Women , juniors and even youngsters . there was even an australian competing in a team from Graz .

Everyone included ? No way , there was NOT ONE "Adaptive/ Physically Challenged person" there either as a spectator but more especially as a competitor ! The journalist i spoke to told me " THERE IS NO MEDIA INTEREST !"

What year are we living in ? Austria has about the best " Behinderten Ski Team " and the "Vorarlberg Behinderten Ski Team " has completed the "Race across America " some years ago !

SO ANYONE OF YOU DUMPING ON " Oscar Pistorius " for making the effort to remind the world there are those less fortunate than us LOOK IN THE MIRROR and ask yourself if you could endure even a portion of the demands made of him by those that would wish that he did not make the efforts for himself and those like himself .

Next year in London we will see many our " Politicians " sent in "Harms Way " serving their community and country once again on the sport field ! Some of those will not measure up to YOUR LOFTY standards but then they were given little choice about the way they did their duty and the consequences that resulted !

WE ALL OWE " OSCAR PISTORIUS " a debt of gratitude for his opening a door and encouraging more to try to reach an " Olympic or Paralympic Standard " and there are some aspiring to London that will not be able to go becaue of the " Rules & Regulations " that currently exist AND also the lack of funding and support from those whose only exercise is with the finger on a keyboard !

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Today i was at a cycling event in Schwaz , Tirol where there were sections of the racing to include all ! Men , Women , juniors and even youngsters . there was even an australian competing in a team from Graz .

Everyone included ? No way , there was NOT ONE "Adaptive/ Physically Challenged person" there either as a spectator but more especially as a competitor ! The journalist i spoke to told me " THERE IS NO MEDIA INTEREST !"

What year are we living in ? Austria has about the best " Behinderten Ski Team " and the "Vorarlberg Behinderten Ski Team " has completed the "Race across America " some years ago !

SO ANYONE OF YOU DUMPING ON " Oscar Pistorius " for making the effort to remind the world there are those less fortunate than us LOOK IN THE MIRROR and ask yourself if you could endure even a portion of the demands made of him by those that would wish that he did not make the efforts for himself and those like himself .

Next year in London we will see many our " Politicians " sent in "Harms Way " serving their community and country once again on the sport field ! Some of those will not measure up to YOUR LOFTY standards but then they were given little choice about the way they did their duty and the consequences that resulted !

WE ALL OWE " OSCAR PISTORIUS " a debt of gratitude for his opening a door and encouraging more to try to reach an " Olympic or Paralympic Standard " and there are some aspiring to London that will not be able to go becaue of the " Rules & Regulations " that currently exist AND also the lack of funding and support from those whose only exercise is with the finger on a keyboard !

What a steaming pile of eleaphant dung. Pistorius is not trying to remind us that there are others less fortunuate. He, his sponsors, and his lawyers are trying to gain an unfair advantage so they can make money.

 

[King Boonen]

He himself said during an interview that the technology he uses has existed since the mid nineties or something; In any case, it's quite old. So his rethorical question was something along the lines of "If it has such an advantage, then why is the 400m not dominated by (pre-existing) amputees who all have access to this technology."

That being said

Pistorius can (and will) be discussed further here:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=15096

That's slightly disingenuous. Just because it was available in the 90's doesn't mean it hasn't been developed.

But anything else I'll post in the clinic thread.