Paris - Nice, Stage 7 Col d'Eze ITT 9.6 km, Sunday 10/3

[Pentacycle]

10 W/kg?

hahahahahahaha

Let's break your bubble, sprinters do 20 W/kg in a sprint, and prologues are also 8 or higher. Those aren't long aerobic efforts.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I have Porte to be 62 kg, so maybe Ryo included his bike?

of course you have to include their bike and helmets/outfit

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Let's break your bubble, sprinters do 20 W/kg in a sprint, and prologues are also 8 or higher. Those aren't long aerobic efforts.

lets see how he answers out of this one

 

[Netserk]

Let's break your bubble, sprinters do 20 W/kg in a sprint, and prologues are also 8 or higher. Those aren't long aerobic efforts.

Sprints are 300m
Rujano's prologue was a 8'48 effort. He finished 80.
I call BS on 10 W/kg.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Did you compare their aerodynamic profile? Lots of air resistance involved at 3.5%.

this is the problem, although porte used an itt steer and quintana didn;t, quintana also didn't have an itt helmet, so would only higher quintana's effort

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Sprints are 300m
Rujano's prologue was a 8'48 effort. He finished 80.
I call BS on 10 W/kg.

rujano is 48 kg lol you really don't understand what watt per kg means do you? but pls go on this is hilarious

 

[GazelleFormula]

Let's break your bubble, sprinters do 20 W/kg in a sprint, and prologues are also 8 or higher. Those aren't long aerobic efforts.

I don't think its netserk's bubble we need to break here. To get an indication of the W/kg efforts that are humanly possible for sprint, 1min, 5min and FT efforts: http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/powerprofiling.jpg

(table by Andrew Coggan)

You can construct an downsloping curve out of the numbers in the table, and you will find that 10w/kg for an 8min effort falls way out of that curve. Not possible for humans.

 

[Netserk]

I don't think its netserk's bubble we need to break here. To get an indication of the W/kg efforts that are humanly possible for sprint, 1min, 5min and FT efforts: http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/powerprofiling.jpg

(table by Andrew Coggan)

You can construct an downsloping curve out of the numbers in the table, and you will find that 10w/kg for an 8min effort falls way out of that curve. Not possible for humans.

Rujano is Colombian. Normal human limit doesn't count for him

 

[Netserk]

But I'm sure Ryo has a power file of Rujano's prologue ride to prove his claim

 

[GazelleFormula]

At best, Rujano did about 8w/kg, with 48kg weight, 7kg bike, 48.5kph avg and very good aero position.

Very impressive of course, but >10 w/kg is simply not true.

 

[Lanark]

If Rujano produced 480 watt during that prologue he'd be a pretty good pursuit rider, not bad for such a tiny guy.

 

[The Hitch]

And for all their 6kg bikes, power meters, electronic shifting, tribars and sophisticated Clinic reasons the Skyborgs still cant beat Sean Kelly's best average speed up Eze

What was Kelly's speed on eze? I read somewhere that it was slower and somewhere else that it was faster

Rujano is Colombian.

You are wrong on this but right on rujano not achieving 10.

 

[Netserk]

What was Kelly's speed on eze? I read somewhere that it was slower and somewhere else that it was faster



You are wrong on this but right on rujano not achieving 10.

Brainfart from me. I know he is Venezuelan.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Brainfart from me. I know he is Venezuelan.

your entire posting here is one brainfart, you said I said rujano did 7 watt per kg in tour 2008 prologue. which he did, by far. why don't you admitt that you don't understand a lick of what I was talking about? especially your grasping at string saying he only finished 80, like what the hell does that have to do with it?

 

[Netserk]

your entire posting here is one brainfart, you said I said rujano did 7 watt per kg in tour 2008 prologue. which he did, by far. why don't you admitt that you don't understand a lick of what I was talking about? especially your grasping at string saying he only finished 80, like what the hell does that have to do with it?

re-read your own post. It was about 2006 not '08. Are you just one big brainfart aswell?

 

[Netserk]

your entire posting here is one brainfart, you said I said rujano did 7 watt per kg in tour 2008 prologue. which he did, by far. why don't you admitt that you don't understand a lick of what I was talking about? especially your grasping at string saying he only finished 80, like what the hell does that have to do with it?

I have yet to see where you got the number from. Did Rujano really push 480 W for more than 8 minutes

 

[Winterfold]

Hitch - Harmoron said he was 0.4 kmh faster even though the time is longer as the course is different.

The man himself was in the commentary box and did not dispute it.

 

[The Hitch]

Hitch - Harmoron said he was 0.4 kmh faster even though the time is longer as the course is different.

The man himself was in the commentary box and did not dispute it.

Yeah i remember harmonn saying it but then someone else linked a list showing kellies best time on the climb proper was 19.46.

Im not saying i trust the second one or that its right but equally just cos harmonn said Kelly was faster doesnt mean he definately was.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

re-read your own post. It was about 2006 not '08. Are you just one big brainfart aswell?

I meant 2006 of course, a typo, something you couldn't comprehend appearantly, why don't you tell me why my quintana figure is off? you are just here to slander, except everything posted here flies above your head by quit a bit. next time is better to remain silent then step up in ignorance.

 

[jens_attacks]

oh boy there is nothing better than the discussion about rujano's watts

What was Kelly's speed on eze? I read somewhere that it was slower and somewhere else that it was faster

i honestly don't believe that kelly managed in 19freaking86 to go faster or as fast as wiggins,westra,contador or richie. no way.
most likely the distance was just like 2012,2013 itt and not 10 km

i've read in more than one source, that the distances from the 80's col d'eze itt's are all wrong...they approximated from 9,6 to 10 km and so on

 

[Le breton]

oh boy there is nothing better than the discussion about rujano's watts




i honestly don't believe that kelly managed in 19freaking86 to go faster or as fast as wiggins,westra,contador or richie. no way.
most likely the distance was just like 2012,2013 itt and not 10 km

i've read in more than one source, that the distances from the 80's col d'eze itt's are all wrong...they approximated from 9,6 to 10 km and so on

In the book

That topic was discussed last year.

I now paste something I wrote then:

Anthologie de la Course au Soleil

G Delestre says that in the Col d'Eze TT the finish line was always located on the same spot.

However the starting line and distance varied, with flat sections being added

Before the 80's the distance was the same as yesterday, minus possibly 100 meters, but bikes were 2kg (?) heavier.

Best times

1972 - Poulidor 20' 04''

1970 - Merckx 20' 14''

1978 - Kneteman 20' 14''

1969 - Merckx 20' 40''

With an extra 400-500 meters (~35 sec?)

1986 - Kelly 19' 45'' ie equiv. to 19 : 10

1987 - Roche 19' 47''.............. 19 : 12

Extra 600-700m. ( 45 sec?)

2000 - Kloden en 20' 06'' ie equiv to 19 :20

With an extra 2400-2500 meters ( ~3 :00)

1992 - Bernard en 22' 15'' ie equiv. to 19 : 15

1990 - Bernard en 22' 51'' ie equiv to 19 : 50

With an extra 2900 3000 meters (( ~ 3 :35)

1994 - Rominger en 22' 06'' ie. equiv to 18 : 30

1995 - Bobrik en 22' 32'' ie equiv to 18 :56
---------------------

CANNAVARO had added this list of winning times (presumably after subtraction of time estimates for the additional flat section before the climb when that was necessary (PS . but not for 1990-1995).

1969: Merckx 20.40
1970: Merckx 20.14
1971: Merckx 20.43
1972: Poulidor 20.04
1973: Zoetemelk 20.44
1974: Zoetemelk 20.38
1975: Zoetemelk 20.59
1976: Laurent 20.51

1978: Knetemann 20.14
1979: Zoetemelk 20.00
1980: Knetemann 19.06
1981: Roche 19.47
1982: Kelly 19.18
1983: Kelly 18.57
1984: Kelly 19.19
1985: Roche 19.30
1986: Kelly 19.10
1987: Roche 19.12
1988: Kelly 19.36
1989: Roche 19.16
---------------------------
1990: Bernard 22.51
1991: Rominger 23.53
1992: Bernard 22.15
1993: Zülle 22.30
1994: Rominger 21.31
1995: Bobrik 21.57
----------------------------

2000: Klöden 19.31
2001: Frigo 19.18
PS2 I'm intrigued by Kelly 18.57 of 1983

 

[Le breton]

oh boy there is nothing better than the discussion about rujano's watts




i honestly don't believe that kelly managed in 19freaking86 to go faster or as fast as wiggins,westra,contador or richie. no way.
most likely the distance was just like 2012,2013 itt and not 10 km

i've read in more than one source, that the distances from the 80's col d'eze itt's are all wrong...they approximated from 9,6 to 10 km and so on

Also, found on velo101 forum
Sur 9,5 Kms les meilleurs temps sont les suivants :

1972 - Poulidor en 20' 04''

1970 - Merckx en 20' 14''

1978 - Kneteman en 20' 14''

1969 - Merckx en 20' 40''

Sur 10 Kms :

1986 - Kelly en 19' 45''

1987 - Roche en 19' 47''

Sur 10,2 Kms :

2000 - Kloden en 20' 06''

Sur 12 Kms :

1992 - Bernard en 22' 15''

1990 - Bernard en 22' 51''

Sur 12,5 Kms :

1994 - Rominger en 22' 06''

1995 - Bobrik en 22' 32''

Toutefois( au gré de ce j'ai lu) il semble admis que le temps de Kelly en 1986 constitue la meilleure performance absolue.

Source : Anthologie de la Course au Soleil de G Delestre

 

[JRanton]

Bobridge is quite a young road rider who has been focusing on his track career a lot. Of course he is not as good as Cancellara but he does have crippling cases of arthritis.

Congrats to Porte- a phenomenal ride and great that he won.

Nice rides by Talansky, Quintana and Peraud.

I hated reading TJVG's comments. They congratulated Porte- but also hypothesised as to why he lost, AGAIN.
Porte was so strong for the rest of last year after riding Algarve, I'm sure he will devote his professional approach and still do a good job for his team, in the process dropping riders like TJVG again.
Maybe i am reading too much into it...

You're right, the comments were pretty disappointing.

If I'm Porte reading that, I'm thinking: ''I'll see you again in July TJ, and drop you like a stone whilst leading my fellow Skyborgs up Ventoux''.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Also, found on velo101 forum
Sur 9,5 Kms les meilleurs temps sont les suivants :

1972 - Poulidor en 20' 04''

1970 - Merckx en 20' 14''

1978 - Kneteman en 20' 14''

1969 - Merckx en 20' 40''

Sur 10 Kms :

1986 - Kelly en 19' 45''

1987 - Roche en 19' 47''

Sur 10,2 Kms :

2000 - Kloden en 20' 06''

Sur 12 Kms :

1992 - Bernard en 22' 15''

1990 - Bernard en 22' 51''

Sur 12,5 Kms :

1994 - Rominger en 22' 06''

1995 - Bobrik en 22' 32''

Toutefois( au gré de ce j'ai lu) il semble admis que le temps de Kelly en 1986 constitue la meilleure performance absolue.

Source : Anthologie de la Course au Soleil de G Delestre

Thanks for these numbers.

Its a pity Porte held back a bit on the 2nd part of the TT. I think he could have been the fastest in history. Maybe next year.

 

[jens_attacks]

thanks Le breton. i knew all of them,i've read the clinic thread at the time
i still think something doesn't add up. i just can't see how kelly could have been in '83 as fast as bobrik in '95. that would change everything we know about jet fuel. do you believe it's possible?

i won't change my mind until i find a witness who knows exactly the spot from where they started in the '80s. some times from the 80's i found them impossible from that decade