Paul Kimmage

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Jul 17, 2015
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I often wondered why Kimmage doesn't focus more on his own countryman. The Irish were very early adopters of EPO. Pioneers in fact, when you look at Roche's stellar one-off year of 1987. Bit like Wiggo's 2012 ;)

Irish cycling hero Sean Kelly can never really comment on doping because he trails enough dirt behind him to fertilize the Sahara.

Plenty of work for Kimmage in his home country. Maybe he just doesn't like to look.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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wendybnt said:
I often wondered why Kimmage doesn't focus more on his own countryman. The Irish were very early adopters of EPO. Pioneers in fact, when you look at Roche's stellar one-off year of 1987. Bit like Wiggo's 2012 ;)

Irish cycling hero Sean Kelly can never really comment on doping because he trails enough dirt behind him to fertilize the Sahara.

Plenty of work for Kimmage in his home country. Maybe he just doesn't like to look.
just shows you havent even read Rough Ride..

He rejected the suggestion put to him by Miriam O’Callaghan that Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche may have felt betrayed by his book, saying it was the cancer of doping he was targeting and he had a responsibility as a journalist to write about that.

“I was trying to make the sport purer and better for everybody. And they have a responsibility to address it as well. Whether they like to hear that or not, they have a responsibility to do that.
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/kimmage-i-never-betrayed-kelly-and-roche-they-also-have-a-duty-to-address-doping/

Its well known they dont like Kimmage
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Not stopping the discussion, but I want to remind everyone to discuss the topic and not each other, not call people/posts you don't agree with trolling, or place posters into a specific group, i.e. stereotype them and their opinions.
 
Jul 17, 2015
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Are you sure you've read it, cyclechic?

I read it nearly 15 years ago, so my memory might fail me but I don't recall any mention in the book casting doubt on Roche's unbelievable 1987. What I do remember is Roche criticising Kimmage for trying to make money out of doping. Actually that is not an unfair comment, as Kimmage just as Walsh have made a career out of it.

They may have fallen out, but it has nothing to do with Kimmage holding Roche to account......because he hasn't.

Kimmage prefers the riders he challenges to not be his countrymen. For all Walsh's faults, the same cannot be said of him.
 
May 26, 2010
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wendybnt said:
I often wondered why Kimmage doesn't focus more on his own countryman. The Irish were very early adopters of EPO. Pioneers in fact, when you look at Roche's stellar one-off year of 1987. Bit like Wiggo's 2012 ;)

Irish cycling hero Sean Kelly can never really comment on doping because he trails enough dirt behind him to fertilize the Sahara.

Plenty of work for Kimmage in his home country. Maybe he just doesn't like to look.
These cases are already well documented. Kimmage wrote a piece about Kelly this year. He calls out Roche plenty of times.

Why dont the British 'journalists' look at their own? Kimmage has done and did it well.

But lets all shoot someone who dared to put himself above the parapet and leave the rest of the cowards to bask in the omerta....
 
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Benotti69 said:
wendybnt said:
I often wondered why Kimmage doesn't focus more on his own countryman. The Irish were very early adopters of EPO. Pioneers in fact, when you look at Roche's stellar one-off year of 1987. Bit like Wiggo's 2012 ;)

Irish cycling hero Sean Kelly can never really comment on doping because he trails enough dirt behind him to fertilize the Sahara.

Plenty of work for Kimmage in his home country. Maybe he just doesn't like to look.
These cases are already well documented. Kimmage wrote a piece about Kelly this year. He calls out Roche plenty of times.

Why dont the British 'journalists' look at their own? Kimmage has done and did it well.

But lets all shoot someone who dared to put himself above the parapet and leave the rest of the cowards to bask in the omerta....
I thought this thread was about Kimmage not Walsh :D
 
Jul 17, 2015
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Who know when Roche first used epo? Roche used it later with Conconi, but for his 1987 it was probably transfusions. The Tour that year was very long and very hard and very soon after his Giro win.
 
May 26, 2010
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del1962 said:
Isn't it Roche more than Kelly that doesn't like Kimmage, anyway I think it was Walsh who took the biggest flak about Roche.
Walsh was the one who had access to the Conconi doping files. Walsh wrote about Roche with them as evidence. Kimmage was not writing about cycling at that time. Walsh and Kimmage both got lambasted by the mainstream Irish media for going after it's heroes.

RTE (Irish BBC) always took the side of the 'stars'. Even when McQuaid was up against Cookson, RTE gave McQuaid free reign to have an interview without questioning him thoroughly about Armstrong and doping. Just like the BBC now (and have always) do(ne) with well known British sports stars.
 
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wendybnt said:
Who knows? Roche used it later with Conconi, but for his 1987 it was probably transfusions. The Tour that year was very long and very hard and very soon after his Giro win.
That makes tranfusion less likely though as you have to withdraw to replace, it was much more useful for one of events like the Olympics like say Cova in running.
 
Jul 17, 2015
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Not from what Ive heard about the 80s. Logistical problem with blood storage and transport but doable.

Ask Lance.

So anyway, the Irish have a long history of dirtying cycling. McQuaid, anyone?
 
Mar 6, 2009
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wendybnt said:
Not from what Ive heard about the 80s. Logistical problem with blood storage and transport but doable.

Ask Lance.

So anyway, the Irish have a long history of dirtying cycling. McQuaid, anyone?

Sorry but it was hardly blood bags that made the difference, Roche was 3rd in the Tour in 85, the riders ahead of him were Hinault and LeMond who were not there in 87 so it wasn't exactly a surprise he won the Tour. He was the favourite going into it.

The Giro-Tour was impressive but not as unheard of it as it is now.

The Worlds were a bit of tactical luck. Attacked to take the heat of Kelly, instead of following Roche, the rest watched Kelly until it was too late.

It was an amazing season for Roche but he was a top, top rider before then and as I said Hinault/Lemond, the previous top 2 riders were not there in 87. Why did the blood bags not work between 88-91?

But you correct in that Kimmage has never come out and told how it was with Kelly/Roche.
 
May 26, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
wendybnt said:
Not from what Ive heard about the 80s. Logistical problem with blood storage and transport but doable.

Ask Lance.

So anyway, the Irish have a long history of dirtying cycling. McQuaid, anyone?

Sorry but it was hardly blood bags that made the difference, Roche was 3rd in the Tour in 85, the riders ahead of him were Hinault and LeMond who were not there in 87 so it wasn't exactly a surprise he won the Tour. He was the favourite going into it.

The Giro-Tour was impressive but not as unheard of it as it is now.

The Worlds were a bit of tactical luck. Attacked to take the heat of Kelly, instead of following Roche, the rest watched Kelly until it was too late.

It was an amazing season for Roche but he was a top, top rider before then and as I said Hinault/Lemond, the previous top 2 riders were not there in 87. Why did the blood bags not work between 88-91?

But you correct in that Kimmage has never come out and told how it was with Kelly/Roche.
Who cares whether Roche had talent. he doped, he cheated the guy's a fraud.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/paul-kimmage-truth-comes-dropping-slow-28819012.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/paul-kimmage-in-sean-kellys-world-the-real-dirty-stuff-started-and-ended-with-lance-armstrong-31420880.html

Kimmage did a series of talks with David Walsh and Alan English. I attended one of these and he left everyone in the room with no doubt about the truth of Kelly and Roche.
 
Jul 17, 2015
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pmcg76 said:
wendybnt said:
Not from what Ive heard about the 80s. Logistical problem with blood storage and transport but doable.

Ask Lance.

So anyway, the Irish have a long history of dirtying cycling. McQuaid, anyone?

Sorry but it was hardly blood bags that made the difference, Roche was 3rd in the Tour in 85, the riders ahead of him were Hinault and LeMond who were not there in 87 so it wasn't exactly a surprise he won the Tour. He was the favourite going into it.

The Giro-Tour was impressive but not as unheard of it as it is now.

The Worlds were a bit of tactical luck. Attacked to take the heat of Kelly, instead of following Roche, the rest watched Kelly until it was too late.

It was an amazing season for Roche but he was a top, top rider before then and as I said Hinault/Lemond, the previous top 2 riders were not there in 87. Why did the blood bags not work between 88-91?

But you correct in that Kimmage has never come out and told how it was with Kelly/Roche.
Not having a go, but that sounds a bit like the explanation people give for Wiggo's incredible 2012.....main opposition not there, course suited him etc etc

Why did Wiggo-juice not work for him 2013-15? Etc
 
Mar 6, 2009
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Re: Re:

wendybnt said:
pmcg76 said:
wendybnt said:
Not from what Ive heard about the 80s. Logistical problem with blood storage and transport but doable.

Ask Lance.

So anyway, the Irish have a long history of dirtying cycling. McQuaid, anyone?

Sorry but it was hardly blood bags that made the difference, Roche was 3rd in the Tour in 85, the riders ahead of him were Hinault and LeMond who were not there in 87 so it wasn't exactly a surprise he won the Tour. He was the favourite going into it.

The Giro-Tour was impressive but not as unheard of it as it is now.

The Worlds were a bit of tactical luck. Attacked to take the heat of Kelly, instead of following Roche, the rest watched Kelly until it was too late.

It was an amazing season for Roche but he was a top, top rider before then and as I said Hinault/Lemond, the previous top 2 riders were not there in 87. Why did the blood bags not work between 88-91?

But you correct in that Kimmage has never come out and told how it was with Kelly/Roche.
Not having a go, but that sounds a bit like the explanation people give for Wiggo's incredible 2012.....main opposition not there, course suited him etc etc

Why did Wiggo-juice not work for him 2013-15? Etc
Really, comparing Roche to Wiggins :eek: Rider regarded as a future star from the moment he turned pro on the road to a rider who was primarily a track rider riding in the gruppetto at GTs turned GT winner in his 30s. Yeah real similar career trajectories there.
 
Jul 17, 2015
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Hmmm.....a 3rd in the TdF being his only standout GT performance prior to his 'amazing' Triple Crown. Bit like Wiggins 3rd in 2009 ;)
It is a nice comparison as Wiggins swapped focus not once but twice. No solid focus on road until 2009.

It still remains to be explained how Roche is only one of two cyclists ever to have won the Triple Crown, and he certainly looks like it can only be explained by the word 'luck'.

I stand to be corrected, but I'm not aware of Kimmage ever going on record (and private conversations or unrecorded talks don't count) and giving Roche the scrutiny he deserved. It certainly isn't in Rough Ride, contrary to what CycleChic infers as in the book he hero-worships Roche.

Walsh did try and expose Roche very publically on national Irish tv. A tremendously brave act, I feel. I know Walsh has joined the other side and gone for the easy money, but certainly prior to that he is a shining example of what a journalist with an anti-doping slant should be.
 
Sep 14, 2011
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The more I think about the way Kimmage attacked the 2007 Argentina rugby side, the more it makes my blood boil. His attack bears an uncanny resemblance to Kittel's outing of Sayar or Cram's comments about Makhloufi. All because they had the temerity to knock out his beloved Ireland. The guy has lost all credibility.
 
May 26, 2010
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wendybnt said:
Hmmm.....a 3rd in the TdF being his only standout GT performance prior to his 'amazing' Triple Crown. Bit like Wiggins 3rd in 2009 ;)
It is a nice comparison as Wiggins swapped focus not once but twice. No solid focus on road until 2009.

It still remains to be explained how Roche is only one of two cyclists ever to have won the Triple Crown, and he certainly looks like it can only be explained by the word 'luck'.

I stand to be corrected, but I'm not aware of Kimmage ever going on record (and private conversations or unrecorded talks don't count) and giving Roche the scrutiny he deserved. It certainly isn't in Rough Ride, contrary to what CycleChic infers as in the book he hero-worships Roche.

Walsh did try and expose Roche very publically on national Irish tv. A tremendously brave act, I feel. I know Walsh has joined the other side and gone for the easy money, but certainly prior to that he is a shining example of what a journalist with an anti-doping slant should be.
Considering Roche made a public apology to Paul Kimmage on Irish radio, exonerates Kimmage. That there was a court case in which Roche was named as a doper as well means it is on public record. That Kimmage does not control the media is not a valid excuse to take pot shots at him.

As for a public performance in a theatre, recorded by a production company, that is going on public record. That he did it more than once on the 'whistleblowers' tour again to what were cycling fans is a big audience who got the message that Roche and Kelly doped.

I repeat, taking pot shots at Kimmage, who never claimed to be perfect it really low considering the Fortheringhams, Walsh(with Sky), Moore, et al the other sniffling @r€e lickers in sporting journalism

Kimmage, as far as i know has never held himself up to be the anti doping hero is shining armour. That as everyone knows is David Millar.
 
May 26, 2010
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Bernie's eyesore said:
The more I think about the way Kimmage attacked the 2007 Argentina rugby side, the more it makes my blood boil. His attack bears an uncanny resemblance to Kittel's outing of Sayar or Cram's comments about Makhloufi. All because they had the temerity to knock out his beloved Ireland. The guy has lost all credibility.
No he hasn't. He aint perfect. Walsh is the example of someone losing all credibilty. Plenty never had any cred.
 
Jul 17, 2015
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Benotti69 said:
wendybnt said:
Hmmm.....a 3rd in the TdF being his only standout GT performance prior to his 'amazing' Triple Crown. Bit like Wiggins 3rd in 2009 ;)
It is a nice comparison as Wiggins swapped focus not once but twice. No solid focus on road until 2009.

It still remains to be explained how Roche is only one of two cyclists ever to have won the Triple Crown, and he certainly looks like it can only be explained by the word 'luck'.

I stand to be corrected, but I'm not aware of Kimmage ever going on record (and private conversations or unrecorded talks don't count) and giving Roche the scrutiny he deserved. It certainly isn't in Rough Ride, contrary to what CycleChic infers as in the book he hero-worships Roche.

Walsh did try and expose Roche very publically on national Irish tv. A tremendously brave act, I feel. I know Walsh has joined the other side and gone for the easy money, but certainly prior to that he is a shining example of what a journalist with an anti-doping slant should be.
Considering Roche made a public apology to Paul Kimmage on Irish radio, exonerates Kimmage. That there was a court case in which Roche was named as a doper as well means it is on public record. That Kimmage does not control the media is not a valid excuse to take pot shots at him.

As for a public performance in a theatre, recorded by a production company, that is going on public record. That he did it more than once on the 'whistleblowers' tour again to what were cycling fans is a big audience who got the message that Roche and Kelly doped.

I repeat, taking pot shots at Kimmage, who never claimed to be perfect it really low considering the Fortheringhams, Walsh(with Sky), Moore, et al the other sniffling @r€e lickers in sporting journalism

Kimmage, as far as i know has never held himself up to be the anti doping hero is shining armour. That as everyone knows is David Millar.

A lot of 'whataboutery' in your post right there, Benotti.

And by the way, with regards to my bolding, Lance never tested positive either ;)
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Benotti69 said:
Bernie's eyesore said:
The more I think about the way Kimmage attacked the 2007 Argentina rugby side, the more it makes my blood boil. His attack bears an uncanny resemblance to Kittel's outing of Sayar or Cram's comments about Makhloufi. All because they had the temerity to knock out his beloved Ireland. The guy has lost all credibility.
No he hasn't. He aint perfect. Walsh is the example of someone losing all credibilty. Plenty never had any cred.
I don't understand the relevance of your post, we're not discussing Walsh here and nobody is defending him.
 

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