Paul Kimmage

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Explain this then.

You are missing the nuance, as usual. I was employing Kimmage/Clinic logic slightly satirically to make a point.

What kimmage logic were you employing. Certainly not the idea of accusing people based solely on the sport they play, because he's never done that.

Looks to me like you made a mistake, tried to attack kimmage when he did nothing wrong, and are now desperately trying to save face by constantly moving the goalposts and hiding behind this laughable "personal attack" nonsense

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re:

My bad, Kimmage was actually tweeting his support for the Irish football team

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage 2h2 hours ago
Had my first taste of that feral, visceral excitement 25 years ago at Italia '90. Never thought I'd experience it in football again. Magic.

But the same applies, given the woeful lack of testing in football, and the probably widespread doping in the sport.

In his defence he has tweeted a lot about doping in rugby.

From the previous page, before you started throwing strawmen around.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Kimmage was happy to ghostwrite Brian O'Driscoll's autobiography (until they fell out) despite thinking that rugby is rife with doping. Obviously he thought that arguably the best player on the planet could be clean when everybody else was doping.

He's also called out the Argentina team from the 2007 World cup (case of picking on the minnows rather than risking the wrath of the big boys) but I suppose they did knock his beloved Ireland out so who can blame him?

Swap Kimmage for Walsh in these situations and we'd have a new thread with hundreds of posts. Kimmage is no different from anybody else.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yeah I went back along his Twitter timeline: lots of tweets about British doping in rugby, and then quite a few supporting Irish rugby. I did some more research and tried to find the statistics for positives in Irish rugby and found this site:

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Current-Sanctions/

Which seems to have virtually no doping sanctions at all, which surprised me given the UKAD page:

http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/

So is there another Irish anti-doping agency? Else those in green seem to be cleaner than clean.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Was trying to find a tweet critical of an Irish athlete, not much obvious, did find this though:

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage Jul 6
Hey @TodaySOR . We've three Irishmen in the Tour de France but you give more time on your sports slot to Wimbledon. How does that work?

So complaining that the Irish riders aren't getting coverage.

 

[del1962]

Cian Healy wasn't happy with Paul's comments on rugby, http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/cian-healy-blasts-back-rugby-5088114

Furious Healy, 27, took to Twitter after Mr Kimmage made the comments to Brendan O’Connor on RTE’s Saturday Night Show.

Healy wrote: “Rugby is one size fits all now apparently, so don’t eat lots of omelettes and take painkillers or go to the gym because it’s not this chap’s [Kimmage] idea of what sport is.”

The Leinster player, capped 47 times for his country, added: “Better call in and cancel weights on Monday.”

He also showed his contempt for the claims by ending his Tweet with FRO, which usually means “F*** Right Off”.

When asked by a Twitter user if he didn’t believe there is a doping issue in rugby, Healy replied: “We’ve never had one bar an issue with an inhaler some years ago. Testing is regular and worldwide, I stick to facts.”

So Kimmage has ruffled a few feathers in Irish Rugby

 

[JimmyFingers]

Fair play. I would be having a long hard look at Irish anti-doping given the sheer paucity of sanctions.

 

[gooner]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

My bad, Kimmage was actually tweeting his support for the Irish football team

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage 2h2 hours ago
Had my first taste of that feral, visceral excitement 25 years ago at Italia '90. Never thought I'd experience it in football again. Magic.

But the same applies, given the woeful lack of testing in football, and the probably widespread doping in the sport.

In his defence he has tweeted a lot about doping in rugby.

WADA report showed Football had the highest testing numbers! 31,242 tests in 2014.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

Another low dig. Falling out with O'Driscoll ends a writers career? Since when?

Have you a time line to show that Kimmage was happily biting his tongue? Is Kimmage expected to know what is going on in every professional sport out there? How many sports do you follow intently?

IMO people shooting Kimmage is just symptomatic of their failure to address their favourites in sport are not the clean heroes their fans want them to be.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Cian Healy wasn't happy with Paul's comments on rugby, http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/cian-healy-blasts-back-rugby-5088114

Furious Healy, 27, took to Twitter after Mr Kimmage made the comments to Brendan O’Connor on RTE’s Saturday Night Show.

Healy wrote: “Rugby is one size fits all now apparently, so don’t eat lots of omelettes and take painkillers or go to the gym because it’s not this chap’s [Kimmage] idea of what sport is.”

The Leinster player, capped 47 times for his country, added: “Better call in and cancel weights on Monday.”

He also showed his contempt for the claims by ending his Tweet with FRO, which usually means “F*** Right Off”.

When asked by a Twitter user if he didn’t believe there is a doping issue in rugby, Healy replied: “We’ve never had one bar an issue with an inhaler some years ago. Testing is regular and worldwide, I stick to facts.”

So Kimmage has ruffled a few feathers in Irish Rugby

Well it is big of you to admit that Kimmage is doing his job. It is the sport federation's job to catch the dopers. But then you know that and your remark tells us more about you than it does about a journalist ruffling feathers as is their job. I suppose crime reporters are supposed to catch and convict the criminals..........

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

Another low dig. Falling out with O'Driscoll ends a writers career? Since when?

Have you a time line to show that Kimmage was happily biting his tongue? Is Kimmage expected to know what is going on in every professional sport out there? How many sports do you follow intently?

IMO people shooting Kimmage is just symptomatic of their failure to address their favourites in sport are not the clean heroes their fans want them to be.

I never said anything about it ending his career. Given O'Driscoll's popularity in the sport though, it is likely that other rugby players would be less keen to use him for their books in the future. With that cash cow no longer available, Kimmage has suddenly noticed that rugby has a doping problem, something that the rest of us have known for a long time. Coincidence? Maybe it is but questions should be asked.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

My bad, Kimmage was actually tweeting his support for the Irish football team

Paul Kimmage ‏@PaulKimmage 2h2 hours ago
Had my first taste of that feral, visceral excitement 25 years ago at Italia '90. Never thought I'd experience it in football again. Magic.

But the same applies, given the woeful lack of testing in football, and the probably widespread doping in the sport.

In his defence he has tweeted a lot about doping in rugby.

WADA report showed Football had the highest testing numbers! 31,242 tests in 2014.

Woeful Jimmy, Woeful!!!

Someone else already pointed that out, with the rather more sympathetic addendum that it also has an extremely high playing population so percentage wise....

 

[gooner]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

Another low dig. Falling out with O'Driscoll ends a writers career? Since when?

Have you a time line to show that Kimmage was happily biting his tongue? Is Kimmage expected to know what is going on in every professional sport out there? How many sports do you follow intently?

IMO people shooting Kimmage is just symptomatic of their failure to address their favourites in sport are not the clean heroes their fans want them to be.

He's a sports journalist so he's there to be judged on his reporting in sport in general.

This latest phenomenon with drugs and rugby isn't anything new. Kimmage has covered the sport plenty in the past before any of this.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

Another low dig. Falling out with O'Driscoll ends a writers career? Since when?

Have you a time line to show that Kimmage was happily biting his tongue? Is Kimmage expected to know what is going on in every professional sport out there? How many sports do you follow intently?

IMO people shooting Kimmage is just symptomatic of their failure to address their favourites in sport are not the clean heroes their fans want them to be.

I never said anything about it ending his career. Given O'Driscoll's popularity in the sport though, it is likely that other rugby players would be less keen to use him for their books in the future. With that cash cow no longer available, Kimmage has suddenly noticed that rugby has a doping problem, something that the rest of us have known for a long time. Coincidence? Maybe it is but questions should be asked.

So you cannot provide a time line to show Kimmage was pro rugby before O'Driscoll and then anti Rugby after?

Kimmage has a full time job. He does not need a 'cash cow' of autobiographies. I am pretty sure that the guy who has won plenty of awards will not have a hard time finding publishers ready to publish his books should he choose to write any.

As for it being a cash cow..........

I quote Ewan McKenna

"If you can get 20 grand out of (ghosting) a book you're doing very, very well," Ewan McKenna says. "That's for nine months work and it's not nine-to-five because it takes over your life and consumes you. So it's minimum-wage stuff . . . actually, you'd earn more if you worked the same hours in McDonald's."

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

Another low dig. Falling out with O'Driscoll ends a writers career? Since when?

Have you a time line to show that Kimmage was happily biting his tongue? Is Kimmage expected to know what is going on in every professional sport out there? How many sports do you follow intently?

IMO people shooting Kimmage is just symptomatic of their failure to address their favourites in sport are not the clean heroes their fans want them to be.

He's a sports journalist so he's there to be judged on his reporting in sport in general.

This latest phenomenon with drugs and rugby isn't anything new. Kimmage has covered the sport plenty in the past before any of this.

Neil Francis has covered this pretty well for a long time, doping in Rugby and Kimmage has given Francis lots of credit. Where does it say sports journalists are supposed to know the in and outs of every sport, especially the dirt and publish it? I am sure Kimmage has heard plenty of the dirt in Rugby, but proving it to publish it is another matter.

Kimmage specialises in interviews. He is not being judged on his reporting, he was wrongly being judged on a tweet.

 

[gooner]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

Another low dig. Falling out with O'Driscoll ends a writers career? Since when?

Have you a time line to show that Kimmage was happily biting his tongue? Is Kimmage expected to know what is going on in every professional sport out there? How many sports do you follow intently?

IMO people shooting Kimmage is just symptomatic of their failure to address their favourites in sport are not the clean heroes their fans want them to be.

I never said anything about it ending his career. Given O'Driscoll's popularity in the sport though, it is likely that other rugby players would be less keen to use him for their books in the future. With that cash cow no longer available, Kimmage has suddenly noticed that rugby has a doping problem, something that the rest of us have known for a long time. Coincidence? Maybe it is but questions should be asked.

So you cannot provide a time line to show Kimmage was pro rugby before O'Driscoll and then anti Rugby after?

Kimmage has a full time job. He does not need a 'cash cow' of autobiographies. I am pretty sure that the guy who has won plenty of awards will not have a hard time finding publishers ready to publish his books should he choose to write any.

As for it being a cash cow..........

I quote Ewan McKenna

"If you can get 20 grand out of (ghosting) a book you're doing very, very well," Ewan McKenna says. "That's for nine months work and it's not nine-to-five because it takes over your life and consumes you. So it's minimum-wage stuff . . . actually, you'd earn more if you worked the same hours in McDonald's."

The same guff he shows little in interest in comparison to cycling..

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

I watched that show at the time and to be fair Kimmage wrote a few good articles on the topic back then.

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

It may just be a coincidence but he seemed to turn on rugby after he fell out with O'Driscoll. Whilst he still had the potential for lucrative book deals in the sport he seemed happy to bite his tongue.

Another low dig. Falling out with O'Driscoll ends a writers career? Since when?

Have you a time line to show that Kimmage was happily biting his tongue? Is Kimmage expected to know what is going on in every professional sport out there? How many sports do you follow intently?

IMO people shooting Kimmage is just symptomatic of their failure to address their favourites in sport are not the clean heroes their fans want them to be.

I never said anything about it ending his career. Given O'Driscoll's popularity in the sport though, it is likely that other rugby players would be less keen to use him for their books in the future. With that cash cow no longer available, Kimmage has suddenly noticed that rugby has a doping problem, something that the rest of us have known for a long time. Coincidence? Maybe it is but questions should be asked.

So you cannot provide a time line to show Kimmage was pro rugby before O'Driscoll and then anti Rugby after?

Kimmage has a full time job. He does not need a 'cash cow' of autobiographies. I am pretty sure that the guy who has won plenty of awards will not have a hard time finding publishers ready to publish his books should he choose to write any.

As for it being a cash cow..........

I quote Ewan McKenna

"If you can get 20 grand out of (ghosting) a book you're doing very, very well," Ewan McKenna says. "That's for nine months work and it's not nine-to-five because it takes over your life and consumes you. So it's minimum-wage stuff . . . actually, you'd earn more if you worked the same hours in McDonald's."

Actually, I said it may be a coincidence (which you have chosen to ignore). If anybody can supply any links to Kimmage speaking out on rugby prior to his falling out with O'Driscoll then fine, no problem.

 

[gooner]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

Neil Francis has covered this pretty well for a long time, doping in Rugby and Kimmage has given Francis lots of credit. Where does it say sports journalists are supposed to know the in and outs of every sport, especially the dirt and publish it? I am sure Kimmage has heard plenty of the dirt in Rugby, but proving it to publish it is another matter.

Kimmage specialises in interviews. He is not being judged on his reporting, he was wrongly being judged on a tweet. that is how pathetic skyfans have gotten.

It's pathetic you bring Sky into this when the discussion is his coverage of doping in other sports outside of cycling.

Kimmage went over a decade at not attending the Tour, before going back in 2006. He said he preferred reporting on other sports, the same sports he did little with reporting on doping. That he preferred reporting on other sports is right there in writing in the revised edition of Rough Ride. Rugby was one of those mentioned.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

It seems people want to argue with JimmyFingers and not the point he's making. He earned that with his reputation, but it doesn't change the fact of Kimmage's hypocrisy.

Like I already said, I don't really care. He isn't spouting lies, and with regards to those tweets, has no agenda besides being a fan. Walsh tries to convince people Sky are clean, which I think is disingenuous, and if Kimmage toes that line with Rugby, or Dan Martin*, or whatever (I know he's said he thinks he is clean, as opposed to trying to really convince his readership), then I'll develop the same problem problem with him. But for now, for all the big moments he's had with Lance or the UCI, he's still just some dude with his own faults.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

Neil Francis has covered this pretty well for a long time, doping in Rugby and Kimmage has given Francis lots of credit. Where does it say sports journalists are supposed to know the in and outs of every sport, especially the dirt and publish it? I am sure Kimmage has heard plenty of the dirt in Rugby, but proving it to publish it is another matter.

Kimmage specialises in interviews. He is not being judged on his reporting, he was wrongly being judged on a tweet. that is how pathetic skyfans have gotten.

It's pathetic you bring Sky into this when the discussion is his coverage of doping in other sports outside of cycling.

Kimmage went over a decade at not attending the Tour, before going back in 2006. He said he preferred reporting on other sports, the same sports he did little with reporting on doping. That he preferred reporting on other sports is right there in writing in the revised edition of Rough Ride. Rugby was one of those mentioned.

Shall i check the other well known Journalist thread in this part of the forum to see your criticisms?

There was no point in Kimmage reporting on cycling as the omerta would not allow it. He was sick of it as well.

Kimmage is not a specialised sports reporter and anyone who has followed his career will know this. Looking for in depth Rugby reporting, you dont go to Kimmage. He specialises in interviews. He does write about doping because he is one the few who does not shirk that. I dread to think what you think of the rest of the 'journalists' who write about sport as so few will tell is as it is.............

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

You still have to wonder what took him so long to start questioning the sport and the other key question is will he still be on the case in the next 5-10 years to same degree as he does with cycling.

For the most part in comparison to cycling, he had a passive interest in doping in other sports in his journalistic career.

Really. So Kimmage is toeing the omerta line in Rugby? Really? Then you better tell Jamie Heaslip to unblock Kimmage!

Apart from Neil Francis, i would hazard a guess that Kimmage has written more about doping in Rugby than any other Irish Journalist.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Re: Paul Kimmage - Hero

So what exactly is Kimmage being attacked for? Do we really expect him to be covering doping in every sport? As long as he's not write puff pieces in defence of questionable sports/ athletes what's the knock?

 

[wendybnt]

I often wondered why Kimmage doesn't focus more on his own countryman. The Irish were very early adopters of EPO. Pioneers in fact, when you look at Roche's stellar one-off year of 1987. Bit like Wiggo's 2012

Irish cycling hero Sean Kelly can never really comment on doping because he trails enough dirt behind him to fertilize the Sahara.

Plenty of work for Kimmage in his home country. Maybe he just doesn't like to look.