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It's not like Traksel asked tons of money @ Vacansoleil. He just wanted a normal payrise, like you would expect them to give to a Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne winner.
But I guess mr. Van der Schueren was more interested in another colourless Belgian rider of which there are hundreds.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
The guys I'll be keeping an eye on are NetApp. They're a pretty small team, started up last year, have stepped up to ProConti this year but still have a relatively low-glamour squad. They're also swimming against the tide by being a German squad with ambition, but not trying to promise the world and save German cycling, rather just build up to something.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rohregger and Knees end up there at least - Knees and his German national champion's bands could well be very useful for them from a sponsor's perspective.

Trust you ;)

I knew there was a new proconti German team but I couldn't remember the name.

I would be chuffed to bits if there was a new (and humble) dawn brewing in Germany. If they end up with Rohregger and Knees, and that does indeed sound like a match made in heaven if they get stuck, it would be the sort of windfall that might help them even further on their way. Good luck to them.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
What I am saying is that he has done it the right way there is a sponsor that will back the team. not saying it gurantees them anything but teams like Sky, Radioshack took one bigger step than Jayco would have to by getting straight into the proTour and into the tdf so it is definetly possible.

To get into the TdF in one step.... Jayco is completely irrelevant. You need two Schlecks, one Armstrong rentree, an untapped Media Giant... that sort of thing. Much as I hate it, to get into the TdF that quickly, you need the sort of cards on the table that make squad track record completely irrelevant.

Even a Cadel at the helm, one year older again and without a rainbow jersey, would probably not be enough.

Without such card, Jayco's feeder team needs to get arguments for inclusion that "normal" squads need to muster too. A good squad, a decent season, and at least one good showing in a "lesser" GT would be part of that route.

If there isn't a sudden implosion of existing "natural" TdF teams by the end of 2011, those same pigs I mentioned earlier in this thread would need to take to the air again. And even then, all wild card teams would be hoping that the French teams don't find themselves in dire need of wild cards at the end of the year, as otherwise it is 2012 game over for most, regardless.
 
Mar 8, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Chris White disgusts me. If anyone can offer his head on a platter I will reward them. In all seriousness, the amount of times he has stuffed up lied and promised the australian cycling community that we we will be racing in races x,y,z and then it falls through.

I hope this guy rots in hell. To cost 50 riders and staff their jobs especially when it is christmas and the new season is around the corner is horrifying.

The way he has treated riders like Kemp and Shaw shows the attitude of the man. This guy should never be allowed to be involved with cycling again.

chill out.
 
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Sasquatch said:
Robbie McEwen shouldn't be blaming the UCI. He should be blaming the con-man in charge of the team.

Ditto. But then one of the things we all like about Robbie is he says what he thinks.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Francois the Postman said:
To get into the TdF in one step.... Jayco is completely irrelevant. You need two Schlecks, one Armstrong rentree, an untapped Media Giant... that sort of thing. Much as I hate it, to get into the TdF that quickly, you need the sort of cards on the table that make squad track record completely irrelevant.

Even a Cadel at the helm, one year older again and without a rainbow jersey, would probably not be enough.

Without such card, Jayco's feeder team needs to get arguments for inclusion that "normal" squads need to muster too. A good squad, a decent season, and at least one good showing in a "lesser" GT would be part of that route.

If there isn't a sudden implosion of existing "natural" TdF teams by the end of 2011, those same pigs I mentioned earlier in this thread would need to take to the air again. And even then, all wild card teams would be hoping that the French teams don't find themselves in dire need of wild cards at the end of the year, as otherwise it is 2012 game over for most, regardless.

I still don't see how jayco would be any different to Sky or Radioshack...

Jayco at least have a development squad already up and running. Jayco were involved in cycling like Sky.
 
Aug 26, 2010
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Ahhhhh **** I just woke up!

Well the scramble begins. I think that...

- Knees and Rohregger will go to NetApp
- Avery will go to Pure Black
- Tuft will go to Spidertech

-A number of guys will go back to fly V and there will be no second chances for White

-On a brighter note: I predict that by next year, Gerry Ryan (Who I have just dont some hefty resaerch on and is worth nearly 200mill) owner of Melbourne cup winning horse Americain will succeed in his bid to start an Australian team.
Bannon and Sunderland wil both be at the wheel (I thought it was a bit strange when Sunderland called it quits mid season). They would also do well to bring Redant on board but thats another matter. It will be a significantly better organised team and stronger on both a sporting level with a few high profile signings. Maybe Haussler will realise there is no room for him at Garmin. I havnt decided if it will be Pro Tour yet but Ryan wil be hailed the king of Aussie cycling and all will end well...

hmm - maybe i just won't get my hopes up high just yet
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Francois the Postman said:
There are successful feeder teams all over the place. It is not something that is peculiar to Jayco. Actually, Jayco's development squad might have an easier ride than some because of its geographical isolation.

Vacansoleil sponsered tons of ASO races and that still didn't get them a wild card, after having shown their capacity with the big boys over a whole season, in an actual GT, and with additional ambitious French riders recruited with the TdF ambition in mind.

Wrong, if you have $$$ you can buy riders and get yourself a start. All you need is some really big $$$$.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Sasquatch said:
Robbie McEwen shouldn't be blaming the UCI. He should be blaming the con-man in charge of the team.

+1 on that. It’s all too convenient to jump on the blame the UCI bandwagon, but unless McEwen actually saw the application in full then he isn’t really in a position to comment. I’m picking the licensing commission advised by Ernst & Young saw it for what it was. A house of cards.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Sydney21 said:
- Avery will go to Pure Black

No way. That would be a massive step backwards. He would be better off taking a big pay cut for one year with a proper team.
 
Nov 24, 2010
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Sydney21 said:
Ahhhhh **** I just woke up!

Well the scramble begins. I think that...

- Knees and Rohregger will go to NetApp
- Avery will go to Pure Black
- Tuft will go to Spidertech

-

talked with Clinton Avery this morning, pretty gutted, he is only looking at options in Europe at this stage, buts its only been one day.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Sydney21 said:
Ahhhhh **** I just woke up!

Well the scramble begins. I think that...

- Knees and Rohregger will go to NetApp
- Avery will go to Pure Black
- Tuft will go to Spidertech

-A number of guys will go back to fly V and there will be no second chances for White

-On a brighter note: I predict that by next year, Gerry Ryan (Who I have just dont some hefty resaerch on and is worth nearly 200mill) owner of Melbourne cup winning horse Americain will succeed in his bid to start an Australian team.
Bannon and Sunderland wil both be at the wheel (I thought it was a bit strange when Sunderland called it quits mid season). They would also do well to bring Redant on board but thats another matter. It will be a significantly better organised team and stronger on both a sporting level with a few high profile signings. Maybe Haussler will realise there is no room for him at Garmin. I havnt decided if it will be Pro Tour yet but Ryan wil be hailed the king of Aussie cycling and all will end well...

hmm - maybe i just won't get my hopes up high just yet
LastRide said:
Wrong, if you have $$$ you can buy riders and get yourself a start. All you need is some really big $$$$.

Exactly right, sky just bought a team of riders and got starts to wherever they wanted. Radioshack did the same sort of thing. jayco in cycling has more foundations than sky or radioshack did but they got invites into le tour.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Exactly right, sky just bought a team of riders and got starts to wherever they wanted. Radioshack did the same sort of thing. jayco in cycling has more foundations than sky or radioshack did but they got invites into le tour.

Well, already having a foundation might not be all good though. If you have a continental outfit that you want to use as the base of your new team then that is already a drawback on your roster and possibly even your staff but perhaps not as much.

If you have the cash then I think you will always be better off by getting riders and staff that are already well established at the higher level you are aiming at. I'm sure that Sky wouldn't have been nearly as successful in getting the team together and into the PT if they had a core of say 9 british domestic/continental riders in the team.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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ingsve said:
Well, already having a foundation might not be all good though. If you have a continental outfit that you want to use as the base of your new team then that is already a drawback on your roster and possibly even your staff but perhaps not as much.

If you have the cash then I think you will always be better off by getting riders and staff that are already well established at the higher level you are aiming at. I'm sure that Sky wouldn't have been nearly as successful in getting the team together and into the PT if they had a core of say 9 british domestic/continental riders in the team.

Jayco Skins is a development squad. I think it is an advantage to have a development squad. Yes you can buy riders from other teams but also help feed the team with young talent through the jayco Skins U23 team.

The bolded part is not what I am saying
 
Jun 16, 2009
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tweet fomr @lancearmstrong

"On the phone w/ @JohanBruyneel talking @TeamRadioShack and possibly making some roster additions."
 
Aug 26, 2010
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"On the phone w/ @JohanBruyneel talking @TeamRadioShack and possibly making some roster additions."

I was just thinking Robbie would go to Radoishack. They's have a place for a sprinter with Steegmans gone. Robbie would just be a bonus cause he barely needs a leadout
 
Apr 14, 2010
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Francois the Postman said:
To get into the TdF in one step.... Jayco is completely irrelevant. You need two Schlecks, one Armstrong rentree, an untapped Media Giant... that sort of thing. Much as I hate it, to get into the TdF that quickly, you need the sort of cards on the table that make squad track record completely irrelevant.

Without such card, Jayco's feeder team needs to get arguments for inclusion that "normal" squads need to muster too. A good squad, a decent season, and at least one good showing in a "lesser" GT would be part of that route.

I agree completely that a route proving yourself at ProConti makes a more compelling argument - and everything I had read about this project previously had said their ambition was ProConti then ProTour (this project has been doing the rounds for a few years and discussed in hushed tones in Aussie cycle press), Gerry's comment about TdF is the first time I've heard them skip the ProConti step.

But back to your quote, assuming they don't sign a Bert, or a Schleck - and I think that's safe - isn't a GT start simply a case of buying enough UCI points? Or have I missed something? So Goss, Howard and the Myer brothers accumulate lots of points via winning sprints and overalls at TdU, Oman, the GT's Cav decides not to ride etc, Jayco/AIS, who has connections to them all through their track and early road careers, sign them all up and their points, voila! A ProTeam. Sure, they won't threaten the top 10 in the GC....but neither did Sky (sorry, couldn't help myself). Or do I completely misunderstand how ProTour teams and thus GT invites are handed out? Of course, this is all moot when Richie Porte wins le Tour in Conti's absence and signs up :D

btw, I still think they should go the ProConti route regardless.
 
Aug 30, 2009
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Has been previously mentioned but at the Worlds in Geelong there was a booth at the expo with "Support Australias Bid for a ProTeam" - that wasn't Pegasus.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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LastRide said:
Wrong, if you have $$$ you can buy riders and get yourself a start. All you need is some really big $$$$.

You then still need the sort of riders that are free and willing to sign up and are persuasive arguments. There are not many that qualify for the "big enough fish" title.

So you have the $$$ in 2011. Now "all" you need a pedigree team to get a quick wild card. But you will now also be dealing with pedigree riders who are also seriously warned in 2010 about the likelihood of burnt fingers by the double whammy of Geox and Pegasus. And who will still get plenty of comparable lucrative offers from far more secure corners.

Forget Pegasus.

Even with the sort of direct investment that Vacansoleil pumped into ASO races, and some mildly attractive French riders you still don't buy a TdF entry card. You need big boys and big cash.

Enter Geox. Even with the likes of Menchov and Sastre at the helm, a stash full of fresh $$$, a proven sponsorship track record in a key cycling market, you apparently are still not buying a PT status. (A decision I applaud actually, although I wish it had been applied as a golden rule from the start).

Sure, with those two names, a TdF wild card looks a lot more likely. I would be amazed of we don't see Menchov in the TdF this year.

But given the status of their current team, and this Pegasus pantomime, I expect that the next Menchovs and Sastres would be a wee bit more reluctant to sign up in 2011 for an Ozzie team, or any team, that has not even got the appropriate status in the bag.

Heck, I expect that even the Traksels are more reluctant to sign until the ink is dry on a lot of other papers too.

And any upcoming rider with some ambition will seriously ponder how the risk of a year without a contract stacks up against a temporarily more lucrative offer, but that has "seriously risky" tattooed all over its chest. I'm sure what they will judge to be the more lucrative offer, in the long run.

Unless you can get into a shoe-in like the best of the ex-Saxo team with additions and enough financial backing..... If you think that is likely or readily available, indeed, look harder.

If Sky, RadioShack and Team Luxembourg are the sort of exceptions that people are now starting to see as a valid and reasonably likely route up for anyone with money, I think (apart from realizing once again how misguided and short-sighted the UCI was when they handed them out to Sky and RS), they are missing all the other signals that it really really isn't, or certainly isn't as "likely" as it was 1 year ago (and I suspect Sky only got it so "just" RS wouldn't be seen to be such a biased/corrupt call).

Again, I expect that Sastre and Menchov were a wee bit surprised when the PT status decline came in. But a lot of sideline observers will take that on board now, when teams without entry assurances are starting to wave seemingly attractive deals, halfway 2011.

No matter how much money people have to wave about, you will still need the riders. If Menchov+Sastre ain't cutting it for 2011, "just" 2012 Cadel wouldn't do either, for instance.

The Schlecks went their own way with the backing of patriotic vanity investors. If Contador had gone all F1 on us, and got the best of Caisse and Astana with him, or something, it would also have been a rider that can't be ignored going "his own way". Rare cases in which money is really only a secondary concern (albeit still a sizeable one no doubt).

It looks like Sastre and Menchov are now obliged to ride in places that they hasd no intention to, as it ruins the ideal run-up to their personal ambition targets. Just like Cadel this year, they will be stretched thinner than they want to, to make persuasive argument for 2011 season wild cards. Making a successful assault in France that wee bit harder, at a time when their annual attempts are getting more desperate and unlikely, with each year that passes. Age does that. And I bet that for both Sastre and Menchov personal ambition was more important, or at least equally important, as the money on offer, when they made the plunge.

I can't see any team without 100%-in-all-but-name entry security being an attractive option to anyone with genuine ambitions, for the 2011 signing season. Not after the fall-out of this year's team shuffles.

I also hear people talking as if 2012 is still 2 years away. It ain't. It is one recruiting year and one license application opportunity away.