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Looks like Sagan 100% to blame. Trying to steal an advantage by going off the cobbles, but played with fire and got burnt. If you ride so close to the barriers then you're asking for trouble.saganist said:
Jancouver said:Here is a prove the crash was caused by the spectator's jacket ... its a shame.
https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/
Ricco' said:Jancouver said:Here is a prove the crash was caused by the spectator's jacket ... its a shame.
https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/
No, the crash was caused by Sagan. The jacket was still. Maybe it shouldn't be there but when a rider rides so close to the barriers and the public, he must be aware of his surroundings and the obstacle was there for a long time and it was clearly visible. If the rider was focused on the dangers ahead, he had the opportunity to analyze the situation, change course and avoid the obstacle.
Jancouver said:Ricco' said:Jancouver said:Here is a prove the crash was caused by the spectator's jacket ... its a shame.
https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/
No, the crash was caused by Sagan. The jacket was still. Maybe it shouldn't be there but when a rider rides so close to the barriers and the public, he must be aware of his surroundings and the obstacle was there for a long time and it was clearly visible. If the rider was focused on the dangers ahead, he had the opportunity to analyze the situation, change course and avoid the obstacle.
You are mixing apples with oranges. The jacked caused the crash. Was that Sagan's fault? Yes.
Same like when SKY's front wheel collapsed during the TT. What caused the crash? The front wheel failure. Who's fault was that? You can blame the team or the manufacturer but that was what caused the crash.
Same with Sagan. The jacket caused the crash. Was it his fault for riding close to the barrier, yes.
Again, lets not mix apples with oranges ...
I don't remember that, but as I've noted before, he seems way too nonchalant (or casual). He was close to dead last going into Boonenberg, only due to his god given abilities he was distancing everybody bar Naesen and GVA. Nowhere to be found on Muur as well - it would have been the easiest thing in the world just to mark the QS team attack by being in the top 15-20. Absolutely no need to risk that.hrotha said:If memory serves, last year at the Ronde he was also surprisingly casual about positioning during what could easily have been key moments of the race with ~55-60 km to go, but he got lucky and nothing happened. This year it was different.
Great post. I think it's become a bit of a mental thing, and will keeping getting worse at least until he gets another big win. He's been criticized for losing so many races in the last couple of years - notably Omloop and MSR last month - because he has worked too hard, that now he's going too far the other way and being overly cautious in terms of saving energy.Valv.Piti said:But there was a relatively big chance of it happening on the Muur considering just how strong QS was and how weak Bora is/was.nIt wasn't particularly surprising that they would try something along those lines. Had he just casually marked them (not that it would have cost that much energy-wise, at all) he would basically have been good until the 2nd Kwaremont at 55 km left in the race. I just don't understand it. Champions like Boonen would never, ever have let that happen.
Can't let his legs carry him through everything against this competition. Gilbert and GVA are hardcore and just as good as him this year (if not better), so are the rest of Quick Step. Gotta play it smarter if he wants to win against those guys.
Jancouver said:Here is a prove the crash was caused by the spectator's jacket ... its a shame.
https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/
DFA123 said:Great post. I think it's become a bit of a mental thing, and will keeping getting worse at least until he gets another big win. He's been criticized for losing so many races in the last couple of years - notably Omloop and MSR last month - because he has worked too hard, that now he's going too far the other way and being overly cautious in terms of saving energy.Valv.Piti said:But there was a relatively big chance of it happening on the Muur considering just how strong QS was and how weak Bora is/was.nIt wasn't particularly surprising that they would try something along those lines. Had he just casually marked them (not that it would have cost that much energy-wise, at all) he would basically have been good until the 2nd Kwaremont at 55 km left in the race. I just don't understand it. Champions like Boonen would never, ever have let that happen.
Can't let his legs carry him through everything against this competition. Gilbert and GVA are hardcore and just as good as him this year (if not better), so are the rest of Quick Step. Gotta play it smarter if he wants to win against those guys.
Especially with the mind games that Quickstep played - he probably thought they would try to make him waste energy on the Muur and other earlier climbs, so he sat back to not get provoked. But they ended up double bluffing him and sending their A cards up the road. The stuff he said about sitting back when Trek joined the chase on top of the Muur, instead of just closing the small gap himself, also suggests he had muddled thinking. Sagan at his instinctive best would have just soloed across the gap and worried about the consequences of the effort later.
Very good summaries, all of you.trevim said:Regarding Sagan, he needs to sort out his tactics: either he makes the race or he marks the other favourites and that's right as well: staying in between disconnected from the race and always bad positioned will not bring him any win.
Jancouver said:Here is a prove the crash was caused by the spectator's jacket ... its a shame.
https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/
Valv.Piti said:But there was a relatively big chance of it happening on the Muur considering just how strong QS was and how weak Bora is/was.nIt wasn't particularly surprising that they would try something along those lines. Had he just casually marked them (not that it would have cost that much energy-wise, at all) he would basically have been good until the 2nd Kwaremont at 55 km left in the race. I just don't understand it. Champions like Boonen would never, ever have let that happen.
Can't let his legs carry him through everything against this competition. Gilbert and GVA are hardcore and just as good as him this year (if not better), so are the rest of Quick Step. Gotta play it smarter if he wants to win against those guys.
d-s3 said:Sagan is immensely talented physically, he has awesome instincts, but when thinking is required, he loses to some of his opponents.
You can't get it all, I guess...
And he became significantly frustrated. Both by opponents and by media.
He needs a big win to get rid of the pressure and to ride "for fun" again.
tomorrow said:d-s3 said:Sagan is immensely talented physically, he has awesome instincts, but when thinking is required, he loses to some of his opponents.
You can't get it all, I guess...
And he became significantly frustrated. Both by opponents and by media.
He needs a big win to get rid of the pressure and to ride "for fun" again.
Hi, exactly. In slovakia, there are rumours, that he's not the brightest, nor his father, ... Somebody has already said it here, you can't get it all. I also think the for him, it would be best to ride with his instinct and for fun. He will certainly win more that way, although he will come 2nd same often. He should leave the thinking on his DS, and that only as far as the fundamental tactics are concerned.
Let's hope, he will get better till sunday, because as I have read about his injuries, the cobbles of P-R will hurt the hip like hell. Although, it is a little suspicious, that went public with it. It smells with some further mind games.
Hi, exactly. In slovakia, there are rumours, that he's not the brightest, nor his father, ... Somebody has already said it here, you can't get it all. I also think the for him, it would be best to ride with his instinct and for fun. He will certainly win more that way, although he will come 2nd same often. He should leave the thinking on his DS, and that only as far as the fundamental tactics are concerned.
SKSemtex said:I still do not understand how this "stupid" Sagan can be on podium practically in every third race he enters. Especially in TDF and especially in bunch sprints, how can he as non-sprinter alone without any train beat all those "smart" cyclists. Probably luck.
Yes, he is definitely dumb and without any street smartness.
SKSemtex said:tomorrow said:d-s3 said:Sagan is immensely talented physically, he has awesome instincts, but when thinking is required, he loses to some of his opponents.
You can't get it all, I guess...
And he became significantly frustrated. Both by opponents and by media.
He needs a big win to get rid of the pressure and to ride "for fun" again.
Hi, exactly. In slovakia, there are rumours, that he's not the brightest, nor his father, ... Somebody has already said it here, you can't get it all. I also think the for him, it would be best to ride with his instinct and for fun. He will certainly win more that way, although he will come 2nd same often. He should leave the thinking on his DS, and that only as far as the fundamental tactics are concerned.
Let's hope, he will get better till sunday, because as I have read about his injuries, the cobbles of P-R will hurt the hip like hell. Although, it is a little suspicious, that went public with it. It smells with some further mind games.
WTF?